4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 75

[deugirtni]

One little thing about KG (from memory) is that she was new to 1122 King Rd (XK and MM had lived there with the sixth roommate in Spring 2022). All the other girls who lived in the house were members if the same sorority, except KG. KG and MM, always the best of friends, had chosen different housing but in their senior year, KG signed onto the lease at 1122 King Road. ...

RSBM
I don't remember seeing anything indicating that DM belonged to a sorority. Is there a link?

 

[iamshadow21]

RSBM
I don't remember seeing anything indicating that DM belonged to a sorority. Is there a link?

I imagine if she is a sorority member, it is on the internet somewhere, but even if it is, we can't discuss it here.

MOO

 

[deugirtni]

I imagine if she is a sorority member, it is on the internet somewhere, but even if it is, we can't discuss it here.

MOO

I asked for a link to information provided in a post as fact.

 

[iamshadow21]

I asked for a link to information provided in a post as fact.

If you follow the link below, you will find the answer to your question.

NY Post article

 

[NCWatcher]

Throwing this out there, so speculation galore based on experience.

My guess is that Kaylee planned on staying the whole year, maybe even if she already had enough credits to graduate. Then the internship came up and it worked out so she was offered a job. From people I know, any of the following might have happened:
She ended up with enough credits to graduate, and decided on early graduation.
She didn't have enough credits to graduate, but requested that her internship/job count as enough credits to graduate (I know three people who did this)
She did not have enough credits to graduate, but requested to graduate with special circumstances (she had a job lined up) ( I know one person who got their degree this way)

In any of the above scenarios, she would not have known she wasn't staying the entire year until the situation arose where she was going to graduate early. So yes, she only stayed a few months, but that likely was not the original plan.

So to me, not odd at all that she only stayed a few months. Having been offered a job, and one far away, there was a lot to make choices on. (Boyfriend, time off before heading off to a job, graduation, money still owed on the lease, what to keep and what to let go, dog-who would get custody of Murphy?, etc)

JMO and thoughts.

IME it would be unusual for a university to change the credits on an offering a student has already taken (or is in the process of taking) so she can finish early for a job or other obligation. Accrediting agencies are pretty strict about that sort of thing IME. I'm not saying it couldn't happen but it sounds very weird to me.

If K was suddenly going to be able to graduate earlier than she thought, I'd guess she was able to sign up for an extra fall online course or maybe at that point created some sort of "independent study" for fall. Lots of schools are strict about those too though as they sometimes have a bad reputation (especially if used by athletic staff to maintain players' eligibility.) And of course she wasn't on the graduation list so we don't really know what that all means. Posthumous graduations aren't that uncommon but fiddling with credits for a job, convenience, or a wedding, etc are at least IME. Even impending childbirth wouldn't work at universities where I've been employed. If timing out was a problem deadlines could be extended but no "go, we'll change the hours you needed to graduate and/or give you more credit for offerings than others get."
JMO

 

[Nila Aella]

I agree with you. The longer this case went on, the more it developed, the more two words have become indelibly stamped on it in my mind.

AMATEUR HOUR.​

By the time we get to trial, I think my brain's going to need a bigger stamp to cover all of the revelations we'll get. There are so, so many ridiculous, clumsy and boneheaded things he did before, during and after this crime that only LE know right now. That's my predicition. This is not the genius you're looking for. This is a wannabe who thought he was the cleverest of clever clogs, and then proceeded to do everything to lead Moscow's finest straight to him in under two months. Doofus.

My opinion only.

IMO It is hard to believe anyone interested in criminal behavior/crimes/forensics would make so many mistakes.

By now, LE and the prosecutor know whether the evidence from the search warrants have bolstered their case against BK, or whether they need to keep searching for answers.

MOO

 

[Nila Aella]

Re Door Dash warrant:

The date and time of sales and deliveries was of interest to LE as well. Maybe to show that it was normal to have orders delivered early morning hours, who ordered, who delivered, how it was delivered (in person or left).MOO
They also asked for full description of vehicles used.

all information in your possession or control related to sales, deliveries, purchases, and/or transactions made to 1122 King Road, Moscow, Idaho 83 843 for the period ofJanuary 1, 2022 to present, to include:
date and time of sales;
date and time of deliveries;
purchases and/or transactions;
name and identification of the driver;
full description of the vehicles used;
any and all communications between drivers and the purchasers

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723%20Order%20to%20Seal%20%20Redact%20-%20DoorDash%20Inc.pdf

 

[Nova]

Summer internships are generally full-time summer internships, IME....

Now I see how I got confused: you meant "summer before" as in "before the Fall term" and I read it as the "Summer of the previous year (i.e., 2020)."

Hence, my joke about time zones...

(And thank you for your patience.)

 

[Nova]

I hope we learn 1) Why she moved in & 2) Why she moved back home before her last semester ended. She still had furnishings, including a bed, at 1122 King on the night of the murders. I don't think she really had "moved out" - I think she left for a reason but probably nothing nefarious. She was moving far away to Texas soon. Maybe that was a factor? The G's seem like a close family.

Are we sure Fall 2022 was her first time living in this house?

Like you, I am curious. Maybe we will find out her decision to leave the house early is benign but maybe - just maybe - we won't.

JMO

It occurs to me--and I am speculating--that KG probably didn't know last June that she would have a full-time job in TX before the lease she signed was up.

On the previous page, GhostWheel already covered this possibility in greater detail than I.

 

[Nila Aella]

There were multiple knives on the list and five redacted distribution names. Parentheses are mine to identify which knives were listed.
MOO

Ka Bar knives Inc search warrant Nov 28th

Ka-Bar 1217 (USMC straight edge)
Ka—Bar 1217s (sheath)
Ka—Bar 1218 (USMC serrated edge)
Ka-Bar 9128 (Operation Iraqi Freedom USMC)
Ka-Bar 9140 (Vietnam)
Ka-Bar 9169 (OEF Afghanistan)
Ka-Bar 9191 (120th Anniversary)
Distibution information regarding Blue RidgeKnives
Distribution information regarding
Distribution information regarding
Distribution information regarding
Distribution information regarding
Distribution information regarding

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723%20Order%20to%20Seal%20%20Redact%20-%20KA-BAR%20Knives%20Inc.pdf

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

IME it would be unusual for a university to change the credits on an offering a student has already taken (or is in the process of taking) so she can finish early for a job or other obligation. Accrediting agencies are pretty strict about that sort of thing IME. I'm not saying it couldn't happen but it sounds very weird to me.

If K was suddenly going to be able to graduate earlier than she thought, I'd guess she was able to sign up for an extra fall online course or maybe at that point created some sort of "independent study" for fall. Lots of schools are strict about those too though as they sometimes have a bad reputation (especially if used by athletic staff to maintain players' eligibility.) And of course she wasn't on the graduation list so we don't really know what that all means. Posthumous graduations aren't that uncommon but fiddling with credits for a job, convenience, or a wedding, etc are at least IME. Even impending childbirth wouldn't work at universities where I've been employed. If timing out was a problem deadlines could be extended but no "go, we'll change the hours you needed to graduate and/or give you more credit for offerings than others get."
JMO

I agree. Also IME, this would be highly unusual. Seems this would only happen for someone very, very close to graduation who hasn't already interned at the company and was able to get the college to count their employment as an internship credit or something or maybe in place of a capstone project. They still wouldn't get their degree early, but they would be clear to start their job. Alternatively, if she still had a project or thesis to do, she could have done that even after starting her new job in preparation for a May graduation date. I think the latter is most likely what happened here. MOO.

 

[Nova]

IME it would be unusual for a university to change the credits on an offering a student has already taken (or is in the process of taking) so she can finish early for a job or other obligation. Accrediting agencies are pretty strict about that sort of thing IME. I'm not saying it couldn't happen but it sounds very weird to me.

If K was suddenly going to be able to graduate earlier than she thought, I'd guess she was able to sign up for an extra fall online course or maybe at that point created some sort of "independent study" for fall. Lots of schools are strict about those too though as they sometimes have a bad reputation (especially if used by athletic staff to maintain players' eligibility.) And of course she wasn't on the graduation list so we don't really know what that all means. Posthumous graduations aren't that uncommon but fiddling with credits for a job, convenience, or a wedding, etc are at least IME. Even impending childbirth wouldn't work at universities where I've been employed. If timing out was a problem deadlines could be extended but no "go, we'll change the hours you needed to graduate and/or give you more credit for offerings than others get."
JMO

On the other hand, IME--as both an undergrad and grad student--a lot of things can be covered as "independent study". I took the same course twice at Columbia (because I had already passed it once before they brought in a famous writer to teach it); the second time went down as IS. (And that was fair; it was completely different material with a celebrity teaching the class. I took academics very seriously and wouldn't have accepted credit for no work.)

What GhostWheel described was basically being allowed credit for KG's internship or an on-line class, perhaps arranged after the fact. All it takes is a signature from the Chair of the program.

 

[Trebor5591]

IMO It is hard to believe anyone interested in criminal behavior/crimes/forensics would make so many mistakes.

By now, LE and the prosecutor know whether the evidence from the search warrants have bolstered their case against BK, or whether they need to keep searching for answers.

MOO

Would you be so kind as to specify the many mistakes you believe BK made?

 

[Nova]

I agree. Also IME, this would be highly unusual. Seems this would only happen for someone very, very close to graduation who hasn't already interned at the company and was able to get the college to count their employment as an internship credit or something or maybe in place of a capstone project. They still wouldn't get their degree early, but they would be clear to start their job. Alternatively, if she still had a project or thesis to do, she could have done that even after starting her new job in preparation for a May graduation date. I think the latter is most likely what happened here. MOO.

Another possibility--and GhostWheel may have already mentioned this--is that a lot of colleges started offering online courses because of Covid in 2020 or so.
KG may have found a class she could complete and credits she could transfer if there were not a suitable course at UofI. (See also my previous post about Independent Study. I've done more than a few and I wasn't looking for a "gimme course" so I could play football.)

 

[Sundog]

Kaylee's family told different MSM in different interviews that she was graduating in December. It's possible that she had enough credits to graduate in December if she finished whatever she was working on by the fall 2022 deadline. Students who graduate at fall commencements are sitting for exams and turning in work right up to the Friday before the weekend commencement ceremony. That is why they don't get their actual diplomas when they walk across the stage, it is mailed to them a month or two later. The university has to verify that they did, in fact, complete their work as required per their degree requirements.

The deadline to APPLY for fall graduation without a late fee was September 2, 2022. Perhaps Kaylee applied to graduate and expected that she would have completed all requirements, but then on November 13th she was murdered and hadn't turned everything in before then. If that is the case, she will be awarded a posthumous degree in May of 2023 at the spring commencement ceremony. Perhaps that is why Kaylee wasn't on the graduation list - either at the fall ceremony graduation booklet/publication - or on the U of Idaho website that is the official list of fall 2022 graduates.

I suspect that she will receive a posthumous degree this spring, if her parents agree to having this made public.

The other victims may also receive posthumous degrees - if they are eligible. If they are not eligible due to not meeting the credit completion guidelines for posthumous degrees at U of Idaho, then they are eligible for posthumous certificates, which would still be meaningful to their families, I would think.

Here is the Academic Calendar at U of Idaho for fall 2022 - with September 2 as deadline to apply for fall 2022 graduation (without a late fee).

https://www.uidaho.edu/-/media/UIdaho-Responsive/Files/registrar/Registrar/2022-23academiccalendar.pdf?la=en&hash=968D963384C7F68875E224C4C0C7AC9BD68A4CF3

Also note that Kaylee could have applied for an incomplete and was finishing up that assignment, expecting it to be completed by deadline for fall commencement. She wouldn't be attending class, but working on clearing the incomplete. It could have been from spring 2022 or summer session 2022.

There were three summer sessions scheduled in 2022, the last one was a four week summer session (summer session III) with classes ending August 5th.

Edited for typos

 

[NCWatcher]

On the other hand, IME--as both an undergrad and grad student--a lot of things can be covered as "independent study". I took the same course twice at Columbia (because I had already passed it once before they brought in a famous writer to teach it); the second time went down as IS. (And that was fair; it was completely different material with a celebrity teaching the class. I took academics very seriously and wouldn't have accepted credit for no work.)

What GhostWheel described was basically being allowed credit for KG's internship or an on-line class, perhaps arranged after the fact. All it takes is a signature from the Chair of the program.

I took @Ghostwheel to mean K got extra credit beyond the already promised amount for internship. And that seems quite unusual if that happened. Chairs may be able to sign off but we know accreditation folks may be watching. Especially if awarding credit after the fact. And hammers have come down on independent studies as that can be abused too. I am not saying you did that or suggesting K did that for independent study but it does happen.

I think it's more likely she took an extra online course or wasn't really finished but had planned to away from campus as @BeginnerSleuther suggested. I guess we'll eventually find out.
JMO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Kaylee's family told different MSM in different interviews that she was graduating in December. It's possible that she had enough credits to graduate in December if she finished whatever she was working on by the fall 2022 deadline. Students who graduate at fall commencements are sitting for exams and turning in work right up to the Friday before the weekend commencement ceremony. That is why they don't get their actual diplomas when they walk across the stage, it is mailed to them a month or two later. The university has to verify that they did, in fact, complete their work as required per their degree requirements.

Snipped by me.

IME, that's the case regardless of when they graduate. Even students at spring ceremonies don't get their diplomas when they walk across the stage, IME. JMO.

Kaylee may have had the credits to finish in-class learning and her family may not have realized she wouldn't actually graduate until the spring. Who knows. Unless she had graduation announcements printed or was scheduled to receive her cap and gown, we really don't know if she was supposed to graduate in December. My personal opinion is that if she was, they would have given her the posthumous degree and her name would have been mentioned in the December program. I think it's likely her name will be mentioned in the May graduation program. MM too, hopefully. MOO.

The deadline to APPLY for fall graduation without a late fee was September 2, 2022. Perhaps Kaylee applied to graduate and expected that she would have completed all requirements, but then on November 13th she was murdered and hadn't turned everything in before then. If that is the case, she will be awarded a posthumous degree in May of 2023 at the spring commencement ceremony. Perhaps that is why Kaylee wasn't on the graduation list - either at the fall ceremony graduation booklet/publication - or on the U of Idaho website that is the official list of fall 2022 graduates.

Does UI not award posthumous degrees at fall graduation? How early would the graduation program have to be sent for publication in your experience?

 

[Nila Aella]

Would you be so kind as to specify the many mistakes you believe BK made?

Sure: here are a few.

Taking his phone with him.
Turning his phone off.
Driving his own car.
His erratic driving around the house prior to parking.
Parking so close to the house.
Not avoiding the cameras in the neighborhood.
Leaving his sheath.
Leaving his dna on the sheath.
Wearing shoes with a distinquishable, patented sole.
Speeding away from the crime scene.
Coming back to the house the next day.

MOO
edit: added dna on sheath

 

[Sundog]

dbm

 

[Sundog]

Snipped by me.

IME, that's the case regardless of when they graduate. Even students at spring ceremonies don't get their diplomas when they walk across the stage, IME. JMO.

<snipped for focus>

Yes, that's the case no matter when a student graduates. The deadline for grades to be submitted to the registrar is usually two weeks or so following commencement - whether fall or spring commencement.