4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 76

[Sister Golden Hair]

In what circumstances could LE have tried to lift BK’s fingerprints from the outside of his car (door handles, drunk latch, gas tank cover) anytime after they began to zero in in him and before he left for PA? Would a warrant be needed to pull fingerprints from a car in a public parking lot? What about the traffic stops? Could those have been attempts to collect fingerprints?

another thought: we discussed this above and provided links to Black's info re this. BK worked as a security guard (so fingerprinting likely) and maybe even for WSU employment, and if so, then they'd be stored with the FBI.

How Are The Fingerprints Stored?​

The federal government has many sources for collecting fingerprints, including:

• Processes from citizenship
• Employment
• Arrests
• Military service

Any data collected through written forms or spoken answers will be listed in your fingerprint background check. The most complete records linked to these fingerprints are stored with the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). Just like your social security number, your fingerprints are used by the government to track information about you.

How Does A Fingerprint Background Check Work?

How does a fingerprint background check work, exactly? Let's take a look at the basics of fingerprint background checks and the information they collect.

thelawdictionary.org

 

[Justice101]

Not necessarily. Depends on the school. Some schools might call out BA, BS, BN, BM etc. (Business could be a BA or a BS in the US) Other schools might do it differently. Usually large schools don't call out names of students at a university-wide ceremony or it would last all day.
JMO

I got a MS in BS.

Sorry, couldn't resist the temptation.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Yes, an example of DNA transfer taken from info provided by our verified expert. I agree it's very far-fetched but I also provided links where it did indeed happen.

As to the Zebra diagnosis, when BK was named as a possible culprit I thought, "wow, I never saw that one coming". Previously, we'd came up with a multitude of possible scenarios involving the frats, the grub truck crowd, ex-boyfriends, sororities, a local creeper, drug deals, etc, so hearing it was a PhD candidate from another town seemed Zebra-ish to me. <moo>

Same, and a criminology PhD candidate at that, who had just moved to town recently and had (supposedly) had no criminal history. Breaking into a home to kill 4 people you don't know in the middle of the night is definitely zebra territory. Nothing about this case is standard, so I don't dismiss any possibility, no matter how unlikely it may seem.

MOO.

 

[Beth11311]

Not completely unrelated but something I found quite interesting - the other day my child’s (11 yo) friend was talking about how he has visual disturbances, trouble sleeping from it etc. everything he described sounded just like what we have been reading about visual snow. It was just so random (and I imagine rare) that I felt the need to share. I also texted his parents as just an avenue to consider.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Can we be certain BK didn't re-enter the house later that same morning? Maybe he couldn't go back into the bedroom on the third floor without creating more footprints but he was able to wipe up footprints in the hallway?

You wouldn't think a person would do something so chancey but then you wouldn't think a person would enter a populated apartment-house to slay one (or some) of tge occupants.

To me, that's a person who thrives on the level risk, doesn't perceive risk or be deterred by it or perceived the risk but had the raw desire to override it.

If he had the need, desire, compulsion to return to the location of the crime, what could possibly impel him from entering into the crime scene?

It's a reach, but so was the scope of his crime.

JMO

I've said several times that IMO, if the neighbor's report of the front door being open at 8:30 am is true, I suspect BK was back looking for the knife. His phone pinged in the neighborhood around 9 am, but the neighbor's time frame could have been a little off too. I also think the survivors and/or their friends may have disrupted some of the evidence before they realized what happened as we know they were there before police that morning.

 

[al66pine]

Paging Dr. Google ---Paging Dr. Google --- Paging Dr. Google

Re: the medical analogy-- ....if the job of someone providing a second medical opinion is simply to decide if a set of symptoms could represent X condition, no human is needed for that--that can be done easily and cheaply using symptom checker from the internet....

@NCWatcher
Or patients can seek a second opinion from Grannie Daisy Moses.*

__________________________________________
Irene Ryan in Beverly Hillbillies

"The Beverly Hillbillies" Granny's Spring Tonic (TV Episode 1963) - IMDb

Granny's Spring Tonic: Directed by Richard Whorf. With Buddy Ebsen, Irene Ryan, Donna Douglas, Max Baer Jr.. Miss Hathaway's brilliant-but-frumpy bank protegee Gloria is really a sultry gold-digger with eyes for Jed's $34 million, and Jed's just had his annual dose of Granny's spring tonic.

www.imdb.com

 

[PrairieWind]

Exactly.

However, there has to be SOME other DNA on the sheath (even if not BK's). The cow itself had DNA. And I really can't imagine that some sample of the leather won't be taken at some time (after the Prelim). My very strong hypothesis is that more human DNA will be found on the sheath - both on the snap and the other use points, and in the leather itself.

It seems almost certain there was blood on the sheath (and that would have been post-tanning of the leather, so easily swabbed and tested; I assume this has already been done).

If yet another party's DNA was found on the surface of the sheath, we won't learn that until the Prelim.

My whole point is that there is almost certainly more DNA on the sheath (and everywhere else at the murder scene). And BK's own DNA will be in his car. That's nearly certain.

But there was just BK's DNA in the sample taken from the use point on the sheath. That is and was my point. Naturally, I am aware that more DNA could be on the sheath.

Lets assume a portion of the sheath is covered in blood. This blood could be MM's or KG's or a mixture. If there is other dna as well, perhaps the killer was bleeding or other touch DNA in there, can it be separated? If so, what is that process and what is its validity and reliability rates?

 

[PrairieWind]

I've said several times that IMO, if the neighbor's report of the front door being open at 8:30 am is true, I suspect BK was back looking for the knife. His phone pinged in the neighborhood around 9 am, but the neighbor's time frame could have been a little off too. I also think the survivors and/or their friends may have disrupted some of the evidence before they realized what happened as we know they were there before police that morning.

The report of the front door open is something we have not gotten an explanation for as far as I know. It could be significant. It shows access to the house for several hours.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I've said several times that IMO, if the neighbor's report of the front door being open at 8:30 am is true, I suspect BK was back looking for the knife. His phone pinged in the neighborhood around 9 am, but the neighbor's time frame could have been a little off too. I also think the survivors and/or their friends may have disrupted some of the evidence before they realized what happened as we know they were there before police that morning.

Re the bolded, I can't recall: on that morning after, did his phone ping in the actual neighborhood, or was this one of the times his phone "accessed the same cell tower that serves the King Road house," as we've seen the phrasing. Thanks to anyone who can remind me about this.

 

[Cool Cats]

Re the bolded, I can't recall: on that morning after, did his phone ping in the actual neighborhood, or was this one of the times his phone "accessed the same cell tower that serves the King Road house," as we've seen the phrasing. Thanks to anyone who can remind me about this.

"Further review indicated that the 8458 Phone utilized cellular resources on November 13, 2022, that are consistent with the 8458 Phone leaving the area of the Kohberger Residence at approximately [9] a.m. and traveling to Moscow, ID," the affidavit states. "Specifically, the 8458 Phone utilized cellular resources that would provide coverage to the King Road Residence between 9:12 a.m. and 9:21 am."

Bryan Kohberger's phone pinged at Idaho murder scene hours after killings, 12 times prior: investigators

Murder suspect Bryan Kohberger's phone was traced to the scene of the University of Idaho quadruple homicide hours after the stabbings occurred on Nov. 13, 2022.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Boxer]

MOO athletic about movement, muscular about appearance.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

This is primarily brainstorming on my confusion re DoorDash and BK's coincidental (?) arrival time at the scene. Also fueled by LE's mysterious warrants issued to DD. And a CI?
If I'm putting a jigsaw puzzle together I'm delighted when I find a piece that fits in place and is the right pattern of colors that match those adjacent to its placement.
I don't set it aside just because it might also fit a different puzzle. Otherwise, I'd never be able to connect any pieces.
If they fit within the framework I will use them. If they don't, I will hold them handy and see if I can place them later on.
I usually finish with all pieces in place and a lovely, cohesive scene. But sometimes I have a missing piece or two or even a few extras that didn't belong.
But the most excitement is when I have a piece that I'm sure belongs to another puzzle and find that it does fit in the most unexpected place and it changes the entire interpretation of the anticipated scene. (Lol, those are what I consider the zebras!)
In essence, begin by using everything that seems to fit. Don't throw any pieces out. Keep them close as they may be the key to the real message of the puzzle.
Where are we going to fit DD and CI in? Could they coupled? How?

 

[10ofRods]

All I could ever find was a clip of the awarding of his masters. In that clip, the degree was announced (master of arts in criminal justice) followed by the announcement of each student name as each walked across the stage. But how graduate degrees are awarded may or may not be how undergraduate degrees are awarded at a particular school. I never saw a clip of the undergrad degree awards but I'll take your word that it was done the same way.

Looking at the clip I have to say his eyebrows didn't look particularly bushy in that.
JMO

He was in a coterminal program (BA in psych). He might not have attended the undergrad ceremony (most co-terminal students I know do not, they want the fun of getting their grad degree).

//Kohberger already had a bachelor's degree in psychology, and a master's degree in criminal justice from DeSales University in Center Valley, Pennsylvania.//

from:

Bryan Kohberger's high school friends say the accused killer was overweight and bullied

Kohberger is charged with the murders of four University of Idaho students. His study of criminology was an attempt "to understand humans and … himself," according to a friend.

www.cbsnews.com

And I agree his eyebrows don't look "bushy" but to a 20 year old scared young woman trying to explain the prominent brow she saw after learning of the murders of her roommates, that could very well be the word she used (as opposed to an anthropology student, who might say "brow ridge" or something like that) Almost no one distinguishes much between "bushy" and "prominent" brows, especially not younger people. It's something we have to train police to do, at the academy (use better observational language, as they will be required to do throughout their careers).

It will be hard to use DM's testimony at trial, although a skillful prosecutor can walk her through her thinking processes (if she thinks BK's real upper face matches her memory). I really hope they do not put her on the stand, though, as she adds very little to the case and this particular detail will be a sticking point.

IMO.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

"Further review indicated that the 8458 Phone utilized cellular resources on November 13, 2022, that are consistent with the 8458 Phone leaving the area of the Kohberger Residence at approximately [9] a.m. and traveling to Moscow, ID," the affidavit states. "Specifically, the 8458 Phone utilized cellular resources that would provide coverage to the King Road Residence between 9:12 a.m. and 9:21 am."

Bryan Kohberger's phone pinged at Idaho murder scene hours after killings, 12 times prior: investigators

Murder suspect Bryan Kohberger's phone was traced to the scene of the University of Idaho quadruple homicide hours after the stabbings occurred on Nov. 13, 2022.

www.foxnews.com

Thank you. So we don't actually know whether he returned to the neighborhood or not. Maybe he did indeed, but maybe he went to somewhere else in Moscow, maybe some store where he could overhear if people were talking about the murders, maybe some overlook point where he could see King Rd. at a distance with binoculars, etc.

I personally don't doubt that he is the guy, but we shouldn't turn "a drive to anywhere on the west side of town" into "he for sure returned to the house." MOO

I will add: if he was only within the service range of that cell tower for 9 minutes, then I don't think he actually stopped anywhere -- the house, Walmart, etc. That's only 4.5 minutes of driving once he enters coverage of that cell tower, before he would have to turn around and drive 4.5 minutes back out of that range. (unless his phone went off/airplane at 9:21, but given how it's worded, it sounds like the phone was on and he was only inside that service area for nine minutes). A fast drive-by, IMO.

 

[Cool Cats]

Thank you. So we don't actually know whether he returned to the neighborhood or not. Maybe he did indeed, but maybe he went to somewhere else in Moscow, maybe some store where he could overhear if people were talking about the murders, maybe some overlook point where he could see King Rd. at a distance with binoculars, etc.

I personally don't doubt that he is the guy, but we shouldn't turn "a drive to anywhere on the west side of town" into "he for sure returned to the house." MOO

Good point. Maybe he didn't go to the house?

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I will add: if he was only within the service range of that cell tower for 9 minutes, then I don't think he actually stopped anywhere -- the house, Walmart, etc. That's only 4.5 minutes of driving once he enters coverage of that cell tower, before he would have to turn around and drive 4.5 minutes back out of that range. (unless his phone went off/airplane at 9:21, but given how it's worded, it sounds like the phone was on and he was only inside that service area for nine minutes). A fast drive-by, IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

Good point. Maybe he didn't go to the house?

I would imagine they have the same camera footage as from the other trips around that neighborhood. I don't recall the PCA well enough to remember that point. Yep, here's an article mentioning that the car was caught on camera returning the next morning:

Is THIS Bryan Kohberger returning to the scene of the Idaho murders?

New video in the University of Idaho murder case may support investigators' theory that the suspect returned to the scene of the killing hours after the massacre.

www.dailymail.co.uk

So once again, it's not just phone records. It's phone + visual images of car.

By now, I wouldn't be surprised if they have more images of him from business cameras on the periphery of Moscow as well.

LE has not confirmed that the image near the house is Kohberger's car, but it is certainly suggestive when combined with the phone data. PCA has him return, DM claims to have the video:

//
Recently reviewed video in the haunting University of Idaho murder case may support investigators' theory that the murder suspect Bryan Kohberger returned to the scene of the killing in his white Hyundai Elantra in the hours after the massacre.

Kohberger, 28, allegedly returned to the crime scene at least once following the heinous act, according to a police affidavit.

Now, new footage of a white sedan driving near the home the day after may correspond with that theory.//

Just pondering and speculating, IMO.

 

[Cool Cats]

I would imagine they have the same camera footage as from the other trips around that neighborhood. I don't recall the PCA well enough to remember that point. Yep, here's an article mentioning that the car was caught on camera returning the next morning:

Is THIS Bryan Kohberger returning to the scene of the Idaho murders?

New video in the University of Idaho murder case may support investigators' theory that the suspect returned to the scene of the killing hours after the massacre.

www.dailymail.co.uk

So once again, it's not just phone records. It's phone + visual images of car.

By now, I wouldn't be surprised if they have more images of him from business cameras on the periphery of Moscow as well.

LE has not confirmed that the image near the house is Kohberger's car, but it is certainly suggestive when combined with the phone data. PCA has him return, DM claims to have the video:

//
Recently reviewed video in the haunting University of Idaho murder case may support investigators' theory that the murder suspect Bryan Kohberger returned to the scene of the killing in his white Hyundai Elantra in the hours after the massacre.

Kohberger, 28, allegedly returned to the crime scene at least once following the heinous act, according to a police affidavit.

Now, new footage of a white sedan driving near the home the day after may correspond with that theory.//

Just pondering and speculating, IMO.

Link in quoted post.

That is not a photo from the morning. The only evidence from that morning is phone records so he might not have been to the house.

A Fox News Digital camera recorded a brief sighting of a car heading up a road next to the Moscow house. The vehicle can be seen at the top of the video frame as two law enforcement officers converse near the side of a field at around 2pm on November 14.

 

[Cool Cats]

This is primarily brainstorming on my confusion re DoorDash and BK's coincidental (?) arrival time at the scene. Also fueled by LE's mysterious warrants issued to DD. And a CI?
If I'm putting a jigsaw puzzle together I'm delighted when I find a piece that fits in place and is the right pattern of colors that match those adjacent to its placement.
I don't set it aside just because it might also fit a different puzzle. Otherwise, I'd never be able to connect any pieces.
If they fit within the framework I will use them. If they don't, I will hold them handy and see if I can place them later on.
I usually finish with all pieces in place and a lovely, cohesive scene. But sometimes I have a missing piece or two or even a few extras that didn't belong.
But the most excitement is when I have a piece that I'm sure belongs to another puzzle and find that it does fit in the most unexpected place and it changes the entire interpretation of the anticipated scene. (Lol, those are what I consider the zebras!)
In essence, begin by using everything that seems to fit. Don't throw any pieces out. Keep them close as they may be the key to the real message of the puzzle.
Where are we going to fit DD and CI in? Could they coupled? How?

Confidential Source. Standard reason to seal court records.

1. Interfere with enforcement proceedings
2. Constitute an unwarranted invasion of personal privacy
3. Disclose the identity of a confidential source
4. Disclose investigative techniques and procedures

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/022823%20Order%20to%20Seal.pdf

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Where are we going to fit DD and CI in? Could they coupled? How?

B&S by me for focus:

Imo jmo lots of theories that loop in the disparate pieces while still staying in the possible zone, but most would violate TOS and maybe create a few new ones

Regardless of how it lays out, LE had PC for the warrants and scopes

some imo jmo questions that pop into my mind:
were all the fake tinders his? was he catfishing? was he using DD as an excuse and/or hijacking accounts? was there some other connection made I 1.2021 between BK, K & M?

Kaylee reddit 1.1.2021. Warrant dated 12.1.22, motion for extension 12.14
BK Google. 1.1.2021. Warrant dated 1.3.23
Kaylee Tinder 1.1.2021. Warrant dated 11.29.22.
Maddie Tinder 1.1.2021. Warrant dated 12.6.22

or
was there something else discovered during the investigation that ties this together in more complex ways? (I lean somewhat towards this but totally imo jmo)

Dropbox anonymous and warrant dated 1.25.2023 (my guess is this is from CI. this is only a guess; it could also be from other LE or family)

Door Dash 1.1.2022 to present date of warrant Warrant dated 12.6.22 -
same date as anonymous Tinder - so they had probable cause to hit DD and 20 tinder accounts before BK?
Tinder 19 or 20 redacted 11.3.2022 to present. Warrant dated 12.6.22 same date as Door Dash
Then finding something
Tinder from March 1, 2021 to March 31, 2021 for 20 redacted accounts

BK Tinder 6.1.2022. Warrant dated 1.25.23 (same date as DropBox warrant)

BK Yik Yak 6.1.2022 (edited to add). Warrant dated 1.25.23 (same date as DropBox warrant)

this is all jmo imo me putting it together in puzzle parts in many different ways to account for my questions, warrants, scope, CI, DD, etc without getting too out there.