4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 76

[jepop]

Have you found a link for info in bold? I may have missed it, but I have not seen that confirmed.

Just jumping in. I can't give you a link, though I know it was reported but from an unknown source. I consider it speculation at this point. MOO

ETA: If it was to do with Instagram then so far there has been no warrant released to the public in redacted form for a BK instagram account. Theer is a link somewhere on this thread or previous as I do remember this was rehashed rather recently. MOO

 

[10ofRods]

I decided that I can't stay away. But instead of debating I'll just contribute where I can. This is all MOO.

I agree with everything but the GPS data being a hindrance for trial. The cell tower data is much much stronger than lack of GPS data is.

For one, the only reliable place to retrieve historical GPS data in a Android device is the Google Maps Timeline feature. As it comes installed and turned on by default on the majority of Android devices. If BK had the Timeline feature turned off (as many privacy focused people do) or uninstalled Google Maps before the crimes LE not finding GPS data would not be very surprising. As the only other way to have GPS data in there would be to Ask an App like Waze for Directions to the Crime Scene. I could be wrong but I don't think Android's default settings allows any other apps to passively collect location data. But if I am wrong then this makes BKs predicament only worse.

We also know (via the video from the Indiana stops) that his Elantra was equipped with the base infotainment system option that contains absolutely no GPS hardware whatsoever.

Secondly, GPS data is extremely easy to spoof on Android devices. Either on the device via easily accessible apps (you can literally download them in a minute or two) or via a desktop emulator. You could essentially create an entire trail of breadcrumbs. Though most of the uses I've seen have nothing to do with quadruple murders.....cheating on Pokemon Go, cheating on a spouse, making Netflix think you totally should have access to that spanish novella.

Cell towers on the other hand are pretty much IMPOSSIBLE to lie to. This is by design. They to rely on a few things. I'll talk about two of them. Unlike GPS....IMEI which is unique to each and every cellular device is extremely hard to spoof. And the fact that spoofing those identifiers will get you thrown in jail (read: illegal) makes it a lot more difficult to find apps or anyone openly creating tools to do it. IMEI (and the other standard I'm going to mention) have been designed with global crime fighting in mind.

Let's say that you managed to successfully spoof IMEI. It would essentially be a gigantic waste of time because the IMSI encrypted on your SIM card is going to get you caught. And the encryption utilized on the latest version of IMSI has all prevented people from cloning them. If anyone wants to read anymore about this look up LE's use of Man in the middle attacks, specifically Stingray's, Cell Site Spoofing and privacy advocates and the criminal world seeking to stop them.

Just another quick comment about smartphones.

If BK more recently deleted anything on his phone LE will likely be able to recover all of it in a unstructured state, fragments of it or references to it. The only way to really avoid this is to use specialized tools/apps or to override every single bit of available hard drive space multiple times over with new data. Effectively wiping out anything that might have been stored on a sector somewhere by the operating system.

Here goes such a tool

DoD Compliant Data Erasure Software - BitRaser

BitRaser Wipes Data Securely Using DoD Standard & Helps Achieve Complaince with Laws & Regulations like EU-GDPR & CCPA.

www.bitraser.com

I'm sure the cell phone equivalent is out there somewhere but keep in mind that this is only the first step in destroying a hard drive. After they are confident that a tool like Bitraser has wiped the drive they usually drill it full of holes, shred it in a hard drive shredder, and might even melt it. There's a reason they go through these lengths....

Again, MOO and only mine.

IMO if BK did do it and is successful in wiping out all remnants of any sinister data then LE could look at the places collecting crazy amount of user information often unbeknownst to said user.

First, Go ahead and Copy and Paste this link into your browser...(this link is showing a preview but it's Google's GPS timeline and will likely only work for people clicking on this link from an Android device or if you're a Google Maps on iPhone user)

https://timeline.google.com/maps/timeline

Then copy and paste this one here.....should work for all Google account holders...even if you don't have an Android device. Unless you've explicitly turned this feature off.....

https://myactivity.google.com

If you have a Google account and nothing appears under either of those links...CONGRATULATIONS!

2 months left! Then we'll know more!

Edit/Update: I don't want to edit this into the stuff I wrote above because I don't have the time to go over it. But if BK was a frequent user of Google Maps in the area (Maps would recognize this and maintain the area in it's cache for quicker access) or explicitly downloaded the map to his cellular device (option on Android). He could use Google Maps to navigate without needing to have cellular turned on. GPS is independent of cellular and is a phone to satellite / satellite to phone connection. Even turn by turn directions would still work, it just wouldn't utilize live traffic data. The cellular network is only involved to enhance GPS data (surrounding POIs, time you leave for work, traffic etc).

Just want to say that I never said (said the opposite) about the GPS. There WILL be GPS data at trial. He had a smartphone, Imo. I bet it was an iPhone.

It uses GPS even when location services are off and even on airplane mode. So every time he turned his phone back on, there was GPS data - which, IME takes longer to procure.

You are absolutely right that GPS is independent of cellular (and airplane mode) and turn-by-turn data would be awesome, in this case.

IMO.

 

[jepop]

QUOTE:

"There is the account connected to Tinder with the dates of between March 1, 2021 and March 31, 2021 (apparently there are about 20 redacted accounts) https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723 Order to Seal Redact - Match Group LLC 4.pdf"

This is likely one reason why they are investigating earlier dates, before BK even moved to Washington:

A new look at court documents shows that investigators are examining whether suspected killer Kohberger actually targeted the four young students long before he started attending the Ph.D. program at nearby Washington State University.

MSN

RE Tinder: How about,the 19 redacted accounts were identified via a perusal of the victim's contacts (Kaylee and Maddie). Those 19 had pics that in a general sense teed with DM's description. LE successfully gained PC for the further warrants to check these individuals out via a confidential explanation of LE technique and procedure, in this case 1) there are four murders and no usual suspects; 2) we have this general witness description to go on as part of the investigation at this point. Surely this is possible? I think it's feasible anyway. A Confidential source could be a detective/fbi swearing to the procedure and technique and why it is being used in this case of unusual mass murder. Since then the 19 have obviousy (IMO) been eliminated. MOO

ETA: This still doesn't explain the March 1 to March 31 dates on the second Tinder warrant for the 19 Accounts but there will be a reason ofcourse. Personally my view is that these particular warrants are not connected to the BK investigation butares to do with a parralel line of investigation. It also happens to be a good e.g of LE throughness. MOO

 

[whiterhino]

Kaylee reddit 1.1.2021. Warrant dated 12.1.22, motion for extension 12.14

BK Google. 1.1.2021. Warrant dated 1.3.23
notice how BK's warrant is dated after they had PC to search and arrest - that is true for these as well:
BK Tinder 6.1.2022. Warrant dated 1.25.23
BK Yik Yak 6.1.2022 (edited to add). Warrant dated 1.25.23
warrants are not about checking things off a list or just clearing people

Kaylee Tinder 1.1.2021. Warrant dated 11.29.22.
Maddie Tinder 1.1.2021. Warrant dated 12.6.22

Tinder 19 or 20 redacted 11.3.2022 to present. Warrant dated 12.6.22 same date as Door Dash
Then finding something
Tinder from March 1, 2021 to March 31, 2021 for 20 redacted accounts - that's not just LE being Tinder curious imo (last match warrant). warrant dated 12.22.2022

Those are the additional dates and here is the additional information re probable cause. These are not random choices. For LE to get the warrants, they weren't just investigating randoms. There was something linking the places to be searched, things to be seized and nexus to the crime:

skip to -- although this is about geofencing, it lays out PC in layman's terms
III. PROBABLE CAUSE AND PARTICULARITY AT STEP TWO
Geofence Warrants and the Fourth Amendment

you'll find nicely written descriptions that explain: defining what is searched, probable cause, and particularity
Although it's Harvard Law Review, it's not stuffy, but is written in language for humans imo jmo
But imo jmo ime what we know from the 4th amendment of the constitution and a ton o'case law supporting it:

search warrant

www.law.cornell.edu

LE cannot get a warrant to demontrate what is 'normal'. LE investigates to get a warrant; they don't get warrant to investigate (other than with geofencing and that's the issue discussed). imo jmo & the 4th Amendment

Do the dates of the warrants give indication to anything? I have a vague understanding of how a warrant works and the order of operations so to speak however...

Maybe I'm just stupid? This is confusing me:
Tinder 19 or 20 redacted 11.3.2022 to present. Warrant dated 12.6.22 same date as Door Dash
Then finding something
Tinder from March 1, 2021 to March 31, 2021 for 20 redacted accounts - that's not just LE being Tinder curious imo (last match warrant). warrant dated 12.22.2022

So there are 2 separate warrants for the same 20 redacted Tinder accounts. One for the date of 11.3.2022 and another for March 1-31.2021 and warrants dated 12.6.2022 and 12.22.2022.

Noting that the warrant dates for the 20 redacted Tinder accounts, Door Dash and MMs' Tinder are all 12.6.22 (warrant for KGs' Reddit is dated 12.1.22).

So what about the 2 separate warrants for the 20 redacted Tinder accounts? Are they different kinds of warrants? This is an area I know nothing about.

*ETA: Could it be that the warrants pertain to gaining access to the location history of the redacted Tinder accounts? Again Idk how any of this stuff works.

 

[whiterhino]

Have you found a link for info in bold? I may have missed it, but I have not seen that confirmed.

Now that you mention it, I have not seen proof therefore I should edit my post as that is technically a rumor. My mistake! I also do not have a link to any articles stating that atm but will look & edit if possible.

 

[10ofRods]

Had DM been drinking? We know she had been out that night with friends. That is certainly going to raised.

I doubt any breathalyzers or tests were done until well after noon on Sunday.

Are you thinking that her lawyers will allow her to testify that she had been drinking within...what time period?

She was home by 1 am, according to early reports, IMO, IIRC. Are you thinking that the defense would actually try and find witnesses who saw DM drinking around midnight? Why would they do it? How would a judge allow it?

At any rate, I'll continue on my point that it does not matter, any longer, what DM saw and I doubt she'll be a major witness at trial. The witnesses will go in order of importance/strategy, and the LE/forensic witnesses will take up a very long time. Now that there's a match between BK and the DNA on the sheath, she's very little needed.

IMO. Trying to impeach a co-ed victim in this crime because they had drinks with friends the night before is a perilous tactic for the defense and has more chance of backfiring than convincing. (Yes, I know the OOJ doctrine, but I don't see it applying in this case, at all).

IMO. DM had nothing to do with the killings. She is a regular person doing regular things on a Saturday night. She admits her impressions were not strong (she didn't call the police), but she still had them. I think many people will find her *more* credible than a paid expert who is willing to testify on behalf of the defense.

IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

Had no idea! Google timeline tracked me! Have iPhone but use google maps. A little scary.

Or vaguely reassuring, if one is not a criminal. As an older person, I'm glad my family has an easy way of figuring out what happened to me (and I'm happy that we can also figure out where the grandkids are).

IMO. Not scary to me.

 

[Nova]

She described seeing a man that matches the man who owns a white 2015 Elantra.

Well, partially. Due to the intruder's mask and, perhaps, the ambient lighting, DM wasn't able to ID more than a couple of the intruder's features.

This is in no way a criticism of DM. She recalled more details than I imagine I would have been able to do, under the circumstances!

 

[Cool Cats]

This is what I was getting at. What might have been going on during 2021?

BK was working in PA for at least some part of 2021. There are Tinder account warrants with dates from January 2021 (KG & MM) and March 1-31 2021 specifically. Do all 20 redacted Tinder accounts belong to one person? If they don't belong to BK then who do they belong to? Why redact BKs name but not KG or MM?

At first glance IMO it looked like a "catfish" situation but could have also been proof of stalking (some would class catfishing as stalking). Afterall, BK was following some of the victims on SM and attempted to message at least one of them. What are the dates for those messages?

Dates for those Instagram messages as stated from an "investigator familiar with the case" started just a few weeks before the murders at the end of October 2022.

Good questions and I like how you posted what BK was doing in the past. I will have to take time to go over that plus all this:

Sister Golden Hair put these together - very helpful:

Kaylee reddit 1.1.2021. Warrant dated 12.1.22, motion for extension 12.14

BK Google. 1.1.2021. Warrant dated 1.3.23
notice how BK's warrant is dated after they had PC to search and arrest - that is true for these as well:
BK Tinder 6.1.2022. Warrant dated 1.25.23
BK Yik Yak 6.1.2022 (edited to add). Warrant dated 1.25.23
warrants are not about checking things off a list or just clearing people

Kaylee Tinder 1.1.2021. Warrant dated 11.29.22.
Maddie Tinder 1.1.2021. Warrant dated 12.6.22

Tinder 19 or 20 redacted 11.3.2022 to present. Warrant dated 12.6.22 same date as Door Dash
Then finding something
Tinder from March 1, 2021 to March 31, 2021 for 20 redacted accounts - that's not just LE being Tinder curious imo (last match warrant). warrant dated 12.22.2022

 

[Cool Cats]

RE Tinder: How about,the 19 redacted accounts were identified via a perusal of the victim's contacts (Kaylee and Maddie). Those 19 had pics that in a general sense teed with DM's description. LE successfully gained PC for the further warrants to check these individuals out via a confidential explanation of LE technique and procedure, in this case 1) there are four murders and no usual suspects; 2) we have this general witness description to go on as part of the investigation at this point. Surely this is possible? I think it's feasible anyway. A Confidential source could be a detective/fbi swearing to the procedure and technique and why it is being used in this case of unusual mass murder. Since then the 19 have obviousy (IMO) been eliminated. MOO

ETA: This still doesn't explain the March 1 to March 31 dates on the second Tinder warrant for the 19 Accounts but there will be a reason ofcourse. Personally my view is that these particular warrants are not connected to the BK investigation butares to do with a parralel line of investigation. It also happens to be a good e.g of LE throughness. MOO

Thanks. Interesting.

I never thought of that but it makes sense that investigators may have been combing through SM for a guy that fit the witness description, as general as that is. After all, there were 100's of cars they combed through based on the car they saw on night time distant video.

The prosecution has turned over nearly 2,000 images and I believe many of those are from these SM accounts we see mentioned. Not just photo images, but images of the dialogue.

 

[Nova]

Possibly. I don't find it pertinent to what we know about that night right now. Her blood alcohol level was not likely tested so pursuing that line of inquiry would be speculation IMO. I guess we will have to see where the defense goes in the PH. Feelings are still running high & will be for a long, long time. The defense should be able to strenuously defend BK without attacking the victims. An innocent man doesn't need to "go there" to be cleared. A guilty man will find no lasting advantage in doing so.
MHOO

But asking an eyewitness whether s/he had been drinking would not be speculation, nor would it be an attack. Barring other, incriminating facts, asking about drug and/or alcohol use is no different than asking whether there was enough light in the room to see.

Per the NY POST--see link below--DM was 21, so of legal drinking age. Per me, DM had no way of knowing she would need to stay sober so she could describe the mass murderer with whom she would come face-to-face after 4 a.m.

Surviving Idaho murders roommates Bethany Funke, Dylan Mortensen: What we know

Bethany Funke and Dylan Mortensen were the only survivors and were the ones to find their friends’ bloodied bodies hours after the brutal attack.

nypost.com

 

[gliving]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1643800322278584321

 

[Auntie Cipation]

NN's exclusive comes 2 months after every other MSM reported on it.

Pennsylvania cold cases under review for possible links to Bryan Kohberger

Kohberger was arrested at his parents’ Albrightsville home on Dec. 30.

nypost.com

Ah, thanks. Other than our own speculation here, I hadn't seen any reports on this, or else I'd already forgotten about it. Sigh.

 

[Nova]

Agree, soft impeachment techniques will be used.

However 4 sheets to the wind or not, DM described a male matching the owner of a white Elantra. That is the bottom line.

With respect, not quite the bottom line.

For all we know, there may have been numerous other Elantra owners who also matched DM's description.

 

[whiterhino]

Dates for those Instagram messages as stated from an "investigator familiar with the case" started just a few weeks before the murders at the end of October 2022.

Good questions and I like how you posted what BK was doing in the past. I will have to take time to go over that plus all this:

Sister Golden Hair put these together - very helpful:

Kaylee reddit 1.1.2021. Warrant dated 12.1.22, motion for extension 12.14

BK Google. 1.1.2021. Warrant dated 1.3.23
notice how BK's warrant is dated after they had PC to search and arrest - that is true for these as well:
BK Tinder 6.1.2022. Warrant dated 1.25.23
BK Yik Yak 6.1.2022 (edited to add). Warrant dated 1.25.23
warrants are not about checking things off a list or just clearing people

Kaylee Tinder 1.1.2021. Warrant dated 11.29.22.
Maddie Tinder 1.1.2021. Warrant dated 12.6.22

Tinder 19 or 20 redacted 11.3.2022 to present. Warrant dated 12.6.22 same date as Door Dash
Then finding something
Tinder from March 1, 2021 to March 31, 2021 for 20 redacted accounts - that's not just LE being Tinder curious imo (last match warrant). warrant dated 12.22.2022

BBM 1- Interesting!! Link?? I didn't know the supposed messages from BK to one of the victims had only begun in the weeks prior to the murder.

I still haven't found any links to the piece of info about BK having messaged one of the victims via SM but there is a MSM link somewhere! Don't want to go against TOS so I'll preface by saying it was a rumor that people were speculating whether BK felt ignored as his messages were never returned etc.

BBM 2- All of this has been discussed multiple times but I too would like to review BKs' location and whereabouts in 2021 compared to the victims.

Also, see my post reply to Sister Golden Hair above (it was # 884).

Unless I am misunderstanding (entirely possible lol) there seems to be 2 separate warrants for the 20 redacted Tinder accounts. The dates of certain warrants being the same (see my post 884) is also making me wonder but it could also be meaningless.

FWIW

 

[Boxer]

Well, partially. Due to the intruder's mask and, perhaps, the ambient lighting, DM wasn't able to ID more than a couple of the intruder's features.

This is in no way a criticism of DM. She recalled more details than I imagine I would have been able to do, under the circumstances!

True. Maybe best to say her description did not exclude the driver of a local white Elantra.

 

[Boxer]

With respect, not quite the bottom line.

For all we know, there may have been numerous other Elantra owners who also matched DM's description.

How about, her description did not exclude the owner of a local white Elantra tracked by cell location driving toward Moscow early morning of 11/13/22.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

NN's exclusive comes 2 months after every other MSM reported on it.

Pennsylvania cold cases under review for possible links to Bryan Kohberger

Kohberger was arrested at his parents’ Albrightsville home on Dec. 30.

nypost.com

And... from the supreme court case re the gag order. IDK if this is true, but I'd like to think Major Paris did when he made this statement to the court:

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/Supreme/50482-2023/020623%20Petition%20for%20Writ%20of%20Mandamus%20or%20Writ%20of%20Prohibition.pdf

• Major Christopher Paris of the Pennsylvania State Police told reporter Chris Ingalls that he could not answer whether police had launched any review of unsolved cases that could be linked to Mr. Kohberger because of the gag order.

 

[jepop]

BBM 1- Interesting!! Link?? I didn't know the supposed messages from BK to one of the victims had only begun in the weeks prior to the murder.

I still haven't found any links to the piece of info about BK having messaged one of the victims via SM but there is a MSM link somewhere! Don't want to go against TOS so I'll preface by saying it was a rumor that people were speculating whether BK felt ignored as his messages were never returned etc.

RBbM RSBM

An unverified source "close to the investigation". Instagram. People Mag. I view this with a grain of salt. If BK did delete an instagram acc then LE will be able to still get that info IMO. Also if BK looked at the accs on a third party app without an acc, that data will in theory be recoverable via BK's search history on phone/laptop or other device. MOO

Bryan Kohberger Followed All 3 Female Idaho Victims on Instagram: Source

Bryan Kohberger is accused of murdering Madison Mogen, Kaylee Goncalves, Xana Kernodle and Ethan Chapin

people.com

ETA: speaking of google lately here as regards the warrants, google can be your friend even if you don't have an account. I just googled magazine, kohberger contacted victims, instagram and voila.
EBM spelling

 

[Nova]

How about, her description did not exclude the owner of a local white Elantra tracked by cell location driving toward Moscow early morning of 11/13/22.

Sure. I wasn't putting DM down or dismissing her value as a witness.

But unless there's a lot more to her testimony than what we read in the PCA, I don't think her description of the intruder can ever be considered definitive. (Again, not her fault: kudos to DM for not embellishing her story!)

This isn't to say that DM's testimony won't be key when combined with the circumstantial evidence we already know about. I only posted because I think we need to keep in mind that DM's identification, by itself, has never been complete or final; as reported, it probably fits a lot of young men in Pullman and Moscow, and a few of those may own Elantras.