4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #86

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Some more points from D response to P Motion to Reconsider Stay:

The State’s Motion is concerned only with Mr. Kohberger’s statutory right to a speedy trial, though it never makes that plain. To be clear, there is no way to read a partial waiver of a constitutional right as a full waiver.

The State cites to State v. Lundquist, 134 Idaho 831 (2000), wherein the Court explicitly states that there is nothing wrong with a partial waiver for purposes of constitutional rights.

“It has long been established that a State may not impose a penalty upon those who exercise a right guaranteed by the Constitution. . . . ‘Constitutional rights would be of little value if they could be . . . indirectly denied,’ or ‘manipulated out of existence'” Harman v. Forssenius, 380 U.S. 528, 540 (1965)

The State brought this prosecution and did so on its own timetable. Now that timetable must abide by Mr. Kohberger’s constitutional rights.

 
Trying to catch up but I have a ton of reading to do.
Seems like LE have got their man, but this talk about the knife sheath and proving it was BK's has me worried.
Omo.

Chief Fry stated they have their killer. We are also thankful to Mr. Goncalves' for updates and information which he, no doubt painfully, has shared. Law enforcement and support teams did an outstanding job, coast to coast. Thankfully the murderer is behind bars and will stay there. This was an incredible feat of justice, by everyone involved. And always, love and heart-prints to all involved. Stay safe.
IMO MOO LMNOP
 
Trying to catch up but I have a ton of reading to do.
Seems like LE have got their man, but this talk about the knife sheath and proving it was BK's has me worried.
Omo.

They don't have to prove he bought the sheath just prove to the jury that this is his DNA on the sheath.

Of course they look for knife purchases but he made more murder kit purchases than just the weapon and maybe they can find those. And other connections like find that he searched for the victims or followed them on SM.

There probably is some digital connection, there is 51 terabytes of evidence including massive amounts of digital evidence from hundreds of Search Warrants.

2 Cents
 
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They don't have to prove he bought the sheath just prove to the jury that this is his DNA on the sheath.

Of course they look for knife purchases but he made more murder kit purchases than just the weapon and maybe they can find those. And other connections like find that he searched for the victims or followed them on SM.

There probably is some digital connection, there is 51 terabytes of evidence including massive amounts of digital evidence from hundreds of Search Warrants.

2 Cents
If the state can show the jury that BK purchased a Ka-Bar knife and sheath before the murders it will make it really hard for the defense to diminish the weight of the DNA evidence found on the sheath. JMO.
 
Some more points from D response to P Motion to Reconsider Stay:

The State’s Motion is concerned only with Mr. Kohberger’s statutory right to a speedy trial, though it never makes that plain. To be clear, there is no way to read a partial waiver of a constitutional right as a full waiver.

The State cites to State v. Lundquist, 134 Idaho 831 (2000), wherein the Court explicitly states that there is nothing wrong with a partial waiver for purposes of constitutional rights.

“It has long been established that a State may not impose a penalty upon those who exercise a right guaranteed by the Constitution. . . . ‘Constitutional rights would be of little value if they could be . . . indirectly denied,’ or ‘manipulated out of existence'” Harman v. Forssenius, 380 U.S. 528, 540 (1965)

The State brought this prosecution and did so on its own timetable. Now that timetable must abide by Mr. Kohberger’s constitutional rights.


Forgetting of course the minor detail that the defense delayed from the jump and the state acquiesced. He didn't enter a plea for 6 months and only did so when he was forced to by law. IMOO, he would not have proceeded to a pc hearing but instead, would have asked for another delay. The use of the GJ imo, was the State using the tools it had available in its legal toolbox to attempt to try and stop the constant delays and get the clock to start ticking.

The requests for stays still came. Once he was arraigned the focus shifted to attack the indictment. They are looking for time to search for grounds to challenge the indictment, delay the inevitable. Defense wants the judge to stay the proceedings while they search for a wrong, as opposed to filing a motion citing the wrong that would provide the grounds necessary for the judge to quash the indictment and grant a stay while a new GJ is empaneled. (Delay the case now for us Judge (again), and we'll give you the reasons later). Defense asked for the kitchen sink - when what they are entitled to is the GJ transcript. The Judge granted the defense request without them laying a basis (giving great deference to the defense once again imo) and now the defense is hoping to find problems with the way the GJ was empaneled. It doesn't know what they are yet, but they plan to find at least one.

Court said your motion is premature defense, but I'll give you 37 days more to get the materials even though your clients isn't waiving his right to a speedy trial and you can renew your motion if necessary at that time.

[From Motion to Reconsider] State says respectfully, judge, you can't do that. He can't halfway waive his right to a speedy trial by you extending this out 37 days without him waiving it. He either has to waive it, or it has to be set as scheduled with them renewing their motion prior to trial. ["The Idaho Supreme Court unambiguously rejected the notion that a defendant can partially, but not fully, waive his right to a speedy trial, explaining that “Section 19-3501 does not allow for such a limited waiver. Once the trial has been postponed, the six-month statutory period no longer applies."]

Besides, the motion to stay has no practical effect since Taylor can renew the motion when its ripe for consideration. And, "The State makes these requests to give the parties, the victims’ families, and the witnesses predictability as to future trial dates; to protect the record; and to avoid needless speedy trial litigation down the road."

Now from the document you cite above, Response to State's Motion to Reconsider defense says we don't want to waive our right to speedy trial and we can't be compelled to. However, we want you judge to extend his speedy trial right by 37 days.

Can't do this. Judge has to get the waiver and set the trial for a date 37 days out from October 2nd (or any time after that) or leave the trial date at October 2nd and have the defense make their motion later. This is cart before the horse. It is procedurally deficient.

As always, all jmo.

This is one of those cases where people are seeing things differently from both sides. So, I understand and respect your post. I just read it differently.


061323 Motion to Stay Proceedings.pdf



 
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Another way to look at the state not finding evidence of BK buying a Ka-Bar and sheath is that the defense can talk the jury during opening and closing statements about it. The jury will be told that the lawyers statements are not evidence but some jurors will disregard that admonition.

The defense can ask why LE never found evidence of a Ka-Bar purchase by the defendant with all of the many search warrants they used in their search. The state can claim that the defendant made efforts to hide the way he obtained the knife and sheath to avoid detection. But the defense can ask why would the defendant go to the trouble of concealing the purchase of the murder weapon only to leave the sheath behind with his DNA on it.

Would this be enough to create reasonable doubt in at least one juror?

JMO.
 
One would think that if he had an irrefutable alibi, he would have provided it at time of arrest. It seems as if his alibi is one that cannot be proven so they are leaving up to a jury to decide if they believe it. IMO
 
One would think that if he had an irrefutable alibi, he would have provided it at time of arrest. It seems as if his alibi is one that cannot be proven so they are leaving up to a jury to decide if they believe it. IMO
BK would obviously not be where he's at if he had a real concrete alibi proving he was somewhere else when the murders occurred.

I think the defense is going with some kind of pseudo alibi where they claim the state can't prove he was at the murder scene.

JMO.
 
Trying to catch up but I have a ton of reading to do.
Seems like LE have got their man, but this talk about the knife sheath and proving it was BK's has me worried.
Omo.
Its always possible to lose a case and the guilty walk free.
MOO its unlikely here.
BK is tied to the Elantra. The Elantra is tied to 1122 King St.
Bk is tied to the Kabar sheath, the sheath tied to the crime scene inside 1122 King Rd.
 
I think touch DNA by definition is DNA left on an object "presumably" bc it was touched by the defendant. My guess is she'll try to get this excluded as unreliable unless the state can provide some support that he touched it. But, wasn't it reported that they traced the purchase by him to Amazon or am I misremembering?
MOO
His DNA on the sheath is evidence. His DNA is not on a notebook or a fast food bag or some random item, it's on the sheath of a fighting knife.
 
BK would obviously not be where he's at if he had a real concrete alibi proving he was somewhere else when the murders occurred.

I think the defense is going with some kind of pseudo alibi where they claim the state can't prove he was at the murder scene.

JMO.
Right, my alibi is that the crime was not televised.
 
LE requested his purchase history from Amazon, we have no idea, what, if anything was found. Based on what the defense wrote in a court filing it sounds like the state may not have received any results from these type of searches.

"The investigation has provided precious little," the defense writes. "There is no connection between Mr. Kohberger and the victims. There is no explanation for the total lack of DNA evidence from the victims in Mr. Kohbrerger's apartment, office, home, or vehicle." (Posting a link to this information yet again.)

In strict legalese, nothing the defense said there excludes the possibility that the prosecution found verifiable evidence of BK purchasing a K-bar knife and/or sheath. The knife sheath is, strictly speaking, a connection between BK and the crime scene, not between BK and the victims.
 
Here is one article I had handy by a journalist that describes touch dna with a few cases to show how it can be transferred.

<snipped for focus>

So the issue with transferred-touch DNA, would be that BK may have never touched the sheath. He may have touched a door knob to open a door, and the person who next went through the door (let's call him person X) and touched the same door knob could have BK's DNA on his hand. Then if person X touched his knife sheath, person X could transfer BK's DNA onto the sheath.

BK would never have needed to touch the sheath himself for his DNA to get there. This is what these experts are saying, although not using BK's case as an example, but other cases with similar examples. They are saying that if a DNA sample is small enough, it could place a person in a place where he never went, and have his DNA on an object that he never touched.

Good article to explain transfer-touch DNA.
 
Another way to look at the state not finding evidence of BK buying a Ka-Bar and sheath is that the defense can talk the jury during opening and closing statements about it. The jury will be told that the lawyers statements are not evidence but some jurors will disregard that admonition.

The defense can ask why LE never found evidence of a Ka-Bar purchase by the defendant with all of the many search warrants they used in their search. The state can claim that the defendant made efforts to hide the way he obtained the knife and sheath to avoid detection. But the defense can ask why would the defendant go to the trouble of concealing the purchase of the murder weapon only to leave the sheath behind with his DNA on it.

Would this be enough to create reasonable doubt in at least one juror?

JMO.
No.

There is not digital evidence to everything a person has in their possession.

He could have owned that knife/sheath for 20 years, bought it with cash, found it, stole it, been gifted it, a hundred different ways.

Not finding proof he purchased a knife/sheath it is not proof he didn't have possession of those 2 items.... 2 Cents
 
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No.

There is not digital evidence to everything a person has in their possession.

He could have owned that knife/sheath for 20 years, bought it with cash, found it, stole it, been gifted it, a hundred different ways.

Not finding proof he purchased a knife/sheath it is not proof he didn't have possession of those 2 items.... 2 Cents
The state will probably have to make assumptions like the examples you give if they don't have any evidence that BK obtained and possessed the Ka-Bar knife and sheath.

The question would then be how the jury reacts to assumptions vs evidence. JMO.
 
<snipped for focus>

So the issue with transferred-touch DNA, would be that BK may have never touched the sheath. He may have touched a door knob to open a door, and the person who next went through the door (let's call him person X) and touched the same door knob could have BK's DNA on his hand. Then if person X touched his knife sheath, person X could transfer BK's DNA onto the sheath.

BK would never have needed to touch the sheath himself for his DNA to get there. This is what these experts are saying, although not using BK's case as an example, but other cases with similar examples. They are saying that if a DNA sample is small enough, it could place a person in a place where he never went, and have his DNA on an object that he never touched.

Good article to explain transfer-touch DNA.
Single source DNA was found on the sheath.
 
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