4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #88

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10ofRods said:
I think it would work, since I've collected trash and teach a lab that includes collecting, preserving and describing trash (preliminary to forensic work).

LE and forensic workers are trained.

You go for things that look like they came from the bathroom trash. It's rare for workmen and housekeepers and DoorDash drivers to use the bathroom, but no worries -you're not looking for THEIR DNA, you're looking for Kohberger DNA.

So, in additional to bathroom trash (kleenex, discarded toothpaste tubes, paper towels, perhaps paper cups - frequently used in bathrooms) we look for:

Other paper towels
Paper and plastic cups
Tissues that could be used to clean eyeglasses (they knew Mr Kohberger wore glasses)
Food packaging (it's really rare that DoorDash or delivery people open up the lunch meat and make a sandwich)
The trash bags themselves (ditto - most of the time, DoorDash people or delivery people do not take my trash out for me)

But none of that matters because you're not looking for OTHER DNA. You start testing the most likely object and it only takes one (although, frankly, I'd be interested in more testing, as I'm that's how I roll and that's how the geneticists I admire roll).

Just think what a win it would be if Mr. Kohberger shaves! (He sure looks like he shaves). The discarded razor blades are DNA gold. He might not discard them daily, but he does discard them sometimes. Or nicks himself and dabs with a tissue. Or throws away a tube of toothpaste (and it didn't really matter which parent was tested - but I understand why they used the paternal DNA in the PCA - I'm sure they have both parents' DNA at this point).

Mr. Kohberger might not do much in the way of brushing his hair, although he definitely has hair and might actually brush it. Most people who brush their hair toss the hair from the brush (I do it daily, as do many people I know - but at least once a week, right?)

As for other parts of the trash, lots of people use paper plates and cups when they eat. Not too many use plastic silverware, but while eating, the utensils touch the plates. Cups are better. Soda cans are great. Unless the Kohbergers are unusual, they occasionally have soda or drink from a water bottle or throw away food that they prepared using their hands (potato peels, egg shells, etc). All will have your DNA on them! And they will know they've found what they're looking for when it's a 49% or higher match with the suspect DNA.

Christmas wrapping paper. Christmas boxes. Plastic bags unpacked by someone putting away groceries. SO many sources. And again, never had anyone else put away my groceries (usually just me - but sometimes husband). His DNA would be all over the big jugs of water we sometimes buy. And, of course, he too brushes his hair. Some people run their shaving byproducts down the drain, but many do not (wipe them up and put them in the trash - otherwise, things clog!)

I'm sure others can think of many other vectors. We throw stuff away daily, touched mainly by ourselves. Doesn't matter who else's DNA is on there - LE is not looking for a new suspect.

They're looking for a match to a person with a white Elantra and a particular set of DNA nucleotides. I bet they found several objects and were able to find a complete profile (which would be typical if a person ever uses a tissue or a paper cup or a soda can). Many people have favorite beverages that they sip directly from the container. SO many options.

Old paperwork is great, too. And packaging is so useful (every time we open a new package of anything - we leave our DNA on the packaging, which we throw in the trash.

Keep one's DNA out of the trash would require effort (and some secrecy or oddball practices, IMO).

Don't be so sure it woudn't work at your house - the delivery person's DNA doesn't replace yours - just is in addition to yours. No one was looking for random delivery guy. If one of your genetic relatives committed a serious crime and you went on with your regular trash disposal mechanisms (not realizing that person was a suspect), I'm pretty sure we could find your DNA on some object in the trash (along with other people's of course - although in different proportions). Cast off chapstick is great. Old socks and cast off clothing is also good. But Christmas brings a plethora of choices - as most family members touch many things inside their house, only to discard packaging, gift wrap, etc.

I forgot junk mail! Very few delivery people touch my junk mail - just the postman. But if they were looking for one of my kids - the postman is irrelevant (although possibly now in some database as John Doe).
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Thanks for the explanation.
 
arielilane said:
The speculation ever since the defense asked for this hearing is that even though #BryanKohberger hasn't wanted to waive his right to a speedy trial, once the judge denied defense request to stay the proceedings last Friday, maybe he/his defense has changed their minds about waiving that right. IF this is the case, this would mean the trial would not be happening in October. #Idaho4

A lot of speculation going on about today's #BryanKohberger "status" hearing. Defense asked for a status hearing this week at the end of last Friday's hearing. Judge asked if they could do via Zoom since it's just a "status". Defense said no, they want it in person. Today, the Goncalves Family FB page posted this:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1694357280056279285

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It is unlike the family to be so reserved in a statement. Certainly an interesting development. Waiving his right. JMOO
 
10ofRods said:
mtDNA is way less valuable in making distinctions among people (literally millions of people have H or H1 mtDNA - and all that the mtDNA does is match them up with their mother and their own siblings and of course, their unbroken maternal line back to 30,000 years ago (which is where 23andme derives their "Generally European" or "Generally African" type of statements.

But one literally gets half their alleles/genes from Mom and half from Dad. Always. As far as we know, there are no actual cloned human beings. Or ones with three parents.

mtDNA does not make a body or give an appearance to anyone - all it does it build mitochondria, so it's only important in reproduction insofar as it provides the ovum with power/electricity to exist - sperm do not have mitochondria and live off of sugar in their "headpieces," until it runs out and they die.

So, if Kohberger's parents know that he has a so-far-invisible to everyone twin brother, they really ought to speak up. What a family secret that would be! And to think, the invisible identical twin brother was ALSO in the Pullman-Moscow area, without driving back with Dad or otherwise getting any sort of support from anyone!

(I know you were joking).

Pappa Rodgers/DNA sheath guy would have to be an identical twin of Bryan Kohberger.

It's interesting that people trust paternity tests (obviously, everyone has a father - and that's easy enough to detect with a paternity test, as the person being tested submits their bio-sample and it is tested against a bio-sample of the putative father; it'll either be a perfect 49-50% match or it will be a much lower number. Siblings come next in the hierarchy of "who is most like us," with full siblings often having the saem 49-50% match and half siblings hovering around 24-25% (matching alleles).

I hope the jury understands that this match is even stronger (100% between BK and the sheath DNA, is my understanding - r else AT would be handling this rather differently).

IMO.
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You brought up an interesting question. What if BK's dad has an identical twin brother? And what if that twin brother has a son? I've seen TV shows where identical twins marry identical twins, so what if BK's mom has an identical twin sister and she married BK's dad's identical twin brother. Would BK's male cousin have similar DNA to BK or would it be drastically different? I don't think anything like this has happened in this case but I'm just curious about how identical these cousins would be?

For the record I think todays hearing is about the Brady-Giglio matter and possibly the fact that the PCA and Search Warrant seem to contradict each other in terms of how the sheath was found - especially as to who found it.
 
Balthazar said:
You brought up an interesting question. What if BK's dad has an identical twin brother? And what if that twin brother has a son? I've seen TV shows where identical twins marry identical twins, so what if BK's mom has an identical twin sister and she married BK's dad's identical twin brother. Would BK's male cousin have similar DNA to BK or would it be drastically different? I don't think anything like this has happened in this case but I'm just curious about how identical these cousins would be?

For the record I think todays hearing is about the Brady-Giglio matter and possibly the fact that the PCA and Search Warrant seem to contradict each other in terms of how the sheath was found - especially as to who found it.
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Do they differ? I didn't realise that.
 
NextSprint said:
Do they differ? I didn't realise that.
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One says that the detective later saw the sheath on the bed. The other says the crime scene people found it. Then there is the story that it was half under MM and half under a blanket. It's very inconsistent. They might all mean the same thing, but it does create confusion. I'm not sure why they wrote it that way rather than in one consistent accounting across all documents.Screen Shot 2023-08-23 at 12.00.27 PM.png
 
Balthazar said:
You brought up an interesting question. What if BK's dad has an identical twin brother? And what if that twin brother has a son? I've seen TV shows where identical twins marry identical twins, so what if BK's mom has an identical twin sister and she married BK's dad's identical twin brother. Would BK's male cousin have similar DNA to BK or would it be drastically different? I don't think anything like this has happened in this case but I'm just curious about how identical these cousins would be?

For the record I think todays hearing is about the Brady-Giglio matter and possibly the fact that the PCA and Search Warrant seem to contradict each other in terms of how the sheath was found - especially as to who found it.
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The cousins in that case would share only about 50% DNA.
 
Balthazar said:
One says that the detective later saw the sheath on the bed. The other says the crime scene people found it. Then there is the story that it was half under MM and half under a blanket. It's very inconsistent. They might all mean the same thing, but it does create confusion. I'm not sure why they wrote it that way rather than in one consistent accounting across all documents.View attachment 442525
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Astounding. Thanks for that.

Honestly if I was defending I'd be looking forward to the trial part where I bring this up and ask which one was it.
 
NextSprint said:
Why would it matter so much to the family if BK waives the speedy trial right or not? I feel I'm being an idiot for not immediately understanding why they're asking for prayers today in particular.
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It indicates this is going to be a long and protracted ordeal. BG and defense aren't trying to just get to trial and make their case and get it over with.
 
NextSprint said:
Why would it matter so much to the family if BK waives the speedy trial right or not? I feel I'm being an idiot for not immediately understanding why they're asking for prayers today in particular.
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Because if the defense turns to the standard delaying tactics, it most likely would be a year or more—quite likely much more—before the trial takes place and the family gets some ‘closure.’

MOO
 
NextSprint said:
I'd use the "wiretap" metaphor:

- Police can't tap your phone unless they have a warrant;
- Let's imagine they tap your phone without a warrant, then based on something they hear they get your DNA and match it to a crime scene sample;
- In court they have to explain how they get to that suspect, why did they take his DNA?
- They explain "Uh, we used a wiretap without a warrant and something he said made us go get his DNA."
- Case is dismissed, end of.

It's about due process, and evidence becoming legally "rotten" if it's obtained illegally. I think that's part of what the D is saying.

All just my opinion.
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Who says the IGG was obtained illegally? Just because some random witness from the defense said she sometimes cheats, does that mean the FBI did when doing BK's search, as well?
 
NyxNY said:
Other than the defense just being a PITA, does it matter if it is in person or Zoom? Do some things necessary HAVE to be done in person?
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I recall the defense offering to have a private meeting with the judge to discuss BK's alibi. Definitely, if that were to happen, it would not be done via Zoom. We really don't know what all will be discussed today.
 
Balthazar said:
One says that the detective later saw the sheath on the bed. The other says the crime scene people found it. Then there is the story that it was half under MM and half under a blanket. It's very inconsistent. They might all mean the same thing, but it does create confusion. I'm not sure why they wrote it that way rather than in one consistent accounting across all documents.View attachment 442525
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I think it is all true, just from different POV's. . This is how most cases are described when you are hearing from various investigators about the same crime scene. One person experiences it one way, the next experiences it somewhat differently.

Payne remembers seeing it at the scene. Baker does not, but does remember being told about it by another investigator.

I don't see why that would be an issue?

When you suggest that 'they write it in one consistent accounting across all documents' -----doesn't that seem problematic?
That would mean taking away the first person accountability and having one person comb through and CHANGE anything that didn't fit the narrative they wanted to set forth, wouldn't it?
 
katydid23 said:
I think it is all true, just from different POV's. . This is how most cases are described when you are hearing from various investigators about the same crime scene. One person experiences it one way, the next experiences it somewhat differently.

Payne remembers seeing it at the scene. Baker does not, but does remember being told about it by another investigator.

I don't see why that would be an issue?

When you suggest that 'they write it in one consistent accounting across all documents' -----doesn't that seem problematic?
That would mean taking away the first person accountability and having one person comb through and CHANGE anything that didn't fit the narrative they wanted to set forth, wouldn't it?
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If all accounts based on empirical observation were identical, I'd be very skeptical. That simply does not happen. Different schools emphasize different word choices and, well, people obviously see differently. Both in terms of visual apparatus and in terms of the cognition behind seeing.

IMO.
 
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