4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #89

[ChatteringBirds]

This tragedy seems to be breaking news:

Police said they responded to King Road for a report of an unconscious person. When officers arrived, they “discovered four individuals who were deceased...”

4 Idaho college students killed in 'targeted attack,' no suspects in custody

Four University of Idaho students were found dead on Sunday, officials said.

abcnews.go.com

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Media Thread/No Discussion

Probable Cause Affidavit

Press photo album (compilation courtesy of WS member cujenn81)

Moscow ID Police Department Facebook page

City of Moscow re King Road Homicide

Media Guide to the Idaho Courts

Detectives are looking to develop context for the events and people involved in the four murders at 1122 King Rd in Moscow, Idaho. Anyone who observed notable behavior, has video surveillance, or can provide relevant information about these murders:

• Telephone: 208-883-7180
• Email: tipline@ci.moscow.id.us
• Digital Media: fbi.gov/moscowidaho

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN REMINDER:

It is okay for members to discuss Visual Snow Syndrome because it was referenced by BK himself in his social media. Also, iirc, a BK family member had referred to him having or possibly having OCD. Those two conditions may be discussed because they are sourced to the accused himself and to his family members.

What members can not discuss are other random mental health conditions beyond those specified above. None of us is in a position to diagnose the mental health of a person we have never met. Introducing various and sundry, potential diagnoses only serves to derail the thread with opinions, debate, unrelated personal anecdotes, etc that may end up not being remotely related to this case.

Thank you.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Speculation must be based on some known fact. Posts about a confidential informant are not based on known fact and it is at times being stated as fact.

Many posts have been removed. Please move on from that discussion.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN REMINDER:

As per TOS, general discussion of the death penalty is one issue that is not allowed. In our experience, it only leads to bickering over personal beliefs. It is a social justice issue that will never be resolved through discussion at Websleuths. Members may discuss it as it relates directly to the potential of it being on the table in this specific case.

Same with politicizing. Political discussion in any fashion is a violation of TOS. IOW, reference to the Dems/Reps, blues/reds, etc has no place in this discussion. Politicizing is one violation that may result in permanent Warning Points being assigned.

Please familiarize yourselves with TOS and post accordingly.

Thanks !!

 

[Sillybilly]

Pappa Rodger has now been mentioned by MSM (Dateline) so I think we can discuss. I have discussed the FB persona quite a bit. There are more articles than just Dateline, I believe.

The account was deleted after BK was arrested, but fell silent when he was arrested. I believe there were interactions between FB and the Latah County investigators.

Pappa Rodger is, I believe, the right spelling. Again, we don't really know, but the MSM is interested in it - and there was interest from LE in the account, as well.

IMO.

We approved discussion of the Pappa Rodger Reddit account back in January. (I'm not aware of a separate FB account.)

Just for the record going forward, it was specifically stated that the Pappa Rodger Reddit account was removed by Reddit prior to BK's arrest:

from: Bryan Kohberger believed to have joined online discussion groups

An admin of the group later clarified that despite Rodgers' apparent authority in the group, he was never an admin or moderator.

Kristine Cameron, wrote: 'He was on her and argued incessantly with people and said some really creepy stuff and posted similar questions to Bryan's crime questions.

'We removed Pappa Rodgers at 7:10 the evening before Bryan's arrest. He created a group page and had 6 people in it.

'No one has heard from Pappa Rodger since the arrest.'

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

For those members who may have forgotten, discussion about the skinned dog is off limits:

ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 10

I know we can’t speculate but the dynamic of K and her ex’s relationship would be interesting to know in more detail. Who broke it off initially, why, was there hesitation from one of them about getting back together? She seemed to be starting a new life so was anyone feeling left behind? Was...

www.websleuths.com

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE

This post lands at random.

Okay folks, bleach was speculation so please move on from that discussion.

As for what unsavory types might read here and get hints about, I'm sure there are a zillion other things they would zero in on. We can't control the universe, and we've never yet heard a perp exclaim "I did it because I read it on Websleuths"

 

[Sillybilly]

For those who haven't seen it, Gray Hughes has put out a video comparing the movements of the Elantra before entering the house (as described in the PCA) with the surveillance footage from Linda Lane. It's not very long, only 15ish minutes and actually watching the visual of the route the car took- exactly matching the times noted in the PCA- was helpful and really illuminating to see, even believing I already had an accurate grasp of the timeline of events from reading the PCA.

A decision has been made to allow discussion of the surveillance footage that is being discussed on Gray's channel.

Gray Hughes is a well established and trusted source at Websleuths, and the fact it is actual video and it appears to be in sync with the PCA timeline does not really place it in the realm of rumor.

 

[Sillybilly]

Please continue discussion here.

 

[Boxer]

AT filed a motion to compel what exactly? The motion says it's not a motion to compel the database, so what is she wanting, the names of relatives returned to the query?
It's pretty unclear.

 

[Boxer]

I tried to find a table that compares all Genealogy DNA databases regarding their level of LE cooperation..could not.
But this has a lot of info.

DNA Testing, Law Enforcement Access and Privacy

Can law enforcement access AncestryDNA, Family Tree DNA, Living DNA and MyHeritage DNA test results? Here’s where each company stands on law enforcement matching for forensic samples.

www.yourdnaguide.com

 

[Charlot123]

No one asked me or my family members if we wanted to opt-in to anything when we did 23 and me.

Not sure what this even means.

Ortham should only be running general public DNA that is legal to run which I assume they do.

So I don't see the problem the defense is trying to manufacture. I'm going to research it.

I haven't sent anything recently, but in 2015-2018, 23@me asked only if you wanted to opt in or out of research. Since they were already selling bulk data to research, only unnamed, I opted out, but not without issues. They were really interested in one of my relatives for research, and I just read Anne Wojcicki's interview where she said "I am sitting on the trove of DNA," and my relative said, greed, opt me out of their research. Long story short, I had to opt him out five times, because each morning he was back in. I know how to use computer and their interface was hard to use on the phone (Anne is not a visionary) but otherwise, OK, so if I changed something, I trust myself. But they just made a huge contract with a company researching autoimmune drugs, and needed some DNAs. I ended up going to their forum to complain openly. And then he was finally out of research, but unless you check DNAs you curate, the settings may change.

However, at that time, there was never opt out or in of police investigation option. If commercial companies added it, bad for them, but they can't opt old clients in themselves without explicit consent.

With Ancestry, I never liked it to start with, but now, and it started with BK, genealogy communities are suddenly very concerned about all commercial genealogy, and I won't repeat what they say. I always think it is safer to have BK behind bars if he is the killer than to allow him roaming WA. The same about this rapist in LA and MD, btw. However, this is how it starts - one time of potential mistrust, and killers start walking out on technicalities, and no one trusts the companies. The biggest problem is, how do we know they didn't give insurances or pharma companies unlimited access to our DNAs?

Plus, in old time Gedmatch was free. Now it is not. The moment they started charging clients money, it became like everything else - you either make me pay, or you can make money off my DNA, but not sit on two chairs... And nothing changed in the services they offer.

Anyhow, if Gedmatch used opted out DNAs for comparison pool, too bad. If commercial genealogy companies did it, even worse. One day, I foresee a huge lawsuit, and some lawyers might make a lot of money.

 

[10ofRods]

23andme does have a different opt-in/out, yes (for research). I opted in of course, and it's been fascinating.

I thought the main point of discussion was the LE opt-in. 23andme does not allow opting in for LE, it treats all members as having opted out and defends them well in court, IMO.

Ancestry apparently has way more records (as a lot of people get their DNA done as part of a lifelong quest to expand their knowledge of their family tree). So Ancestry gets more asks from LE - but they too attempt to resist subpoenas, and only give up data after a Judge orders it (we're speaking of individual data).

We still have no idea what, exactly, AT wants to see - but whatever it is, it's something that the State hasn't seen, either. And of course, IMO, doesn't exist in paper form or any other documentable form. Software algorithms are not discoverable (I can't even imagine where that would go - CODIS would be hamstrung and cases reopened, etc).

 

[Charlot123]

23andme does have a different opt-in/out, yes (for research). I opted in of course, and it's been fascinating.

I thought the main point of discussion was the LE opt-in. 23andme does not allow opting in for LE, it treats all members as having opted out and defends them well in court, IMO.

Ancestry apparently has way more records (as a lot of people get their DNA done as part of a lifelong quest to expand their knowledge of their family tree). So Ancestry gets more asks from LE - but they too attempt to resist subpoenas, and only give up data after a Judge orders it (we're speaking of individual data).

We still have no idea what, exactly, AT wants to see - but whatever it is, it's something that the State hasn't seen, either. And of course, IMO, doesn't exist in paper form or any other documentable form. Software algorithms are not discoverable (I can't even imagine where that would go - CODIS would be hamstrung and cases reopened, etc).

Here is a story. Once upon a time, in one of my state's counties, the equipment for BAL tests in one PD was not calibrated regularly. Some lazy technician. Suddenly, the lawyers found out about it and three years of police work were thrown out of court for that county. This is what might happen if something, somewhere was not checked, and now not only BK, lots of other cases will be under attack.

In the beginning of the case, me, knowing that Idaho was in many ways similar to Indiana, hoped that they'd just be professional, no sermons from the head of state police, no gossips, no self-promotion. And Idaho seemed to do a good job. I just hope they'll keep their professional bar high.

 

[wendy44]

One thing to remember about the various dna companies is that some offer testing and processing and others don't. Ancestry and 23&Me sell kits and will process/analyze data and produce a profile that is uploaded on their site. That's why they're the most locked-down. Your kit is yours and protected unless there's a successful court order.

GEDmatch and it appears Othram (don't know for sure, just from browsing the Othram site) don't offer testing/processing. You take your already completed profile and willingly upload it to these sites. GEDmatch allows you to compare your dna kit to people who have tested at other sites--like an Ancestry kit vs a 23&Me kit. They have a lot of dna tools as well for more advanced researchers and ancestor projects, etc. At GEDmatch you're given the choice to allow it to be used for law enforcement or not.

Just based on the defense saying they don't intend to call the IGG experts at trial (and common sense) I think the defense will try to steer clear of anything dna related, including IGG. Their only reason for bringing this in now is to get the dna thrown out. Once it's in, they have no reason to challenge any of it at trial. The prosecution didn't use it for the PCA so I doubt they'll bring it in. If the dna isn't thrown out, we likely don't see IGG until appellate unless the defense figures out a way to use IGG to cast doubt on the dna match results. If they're reading this thread, though, maybe they're seeing that could work lol.

 

[Charlot123]

I tried to find a table that compares all Genealogy DNA databases regarding their level of LE cooperation..could not.
But this has a lot of info.

DNA Testing, Law Enforcement Access and Privacy

Can law enforcement access AncestryDNA, Family Tree DNA, Living DNA and MyHeritage DNA test results? Here’s where each company stands on law enforcement matching for forensic samples.

www.yourdnaguide.com

For a while, Gedmatch was open datasource. Meaning, everyone could come with his DNA for comparison with the whole database or 1:1. GSK case and Paul Hole made it known and lots of people pulled out of Gedmatch. Then it was bought by some private company and now you have to opt into LE database pool (not out - last time I checked, it was automatically out, or opt in if you want to help catch the criminals. They can't use your opted-out DNA for comparison. If they do, it is illegal). I know lots of people who would never opt in, but I am a woman and this world is scary for us, so I did. But: I did it myself. Manually. If I just downloaded my DNA to be able to find relatives across sites and did not opt in, usage of my DNA to find out if I am 2nd cousin to some SK would have been illegal.

23@me makes most money on collaboration with drug companies, not LE. Theoretically, great idea, there is always more money made in private sector. So, not working with LE openly. AFAIK.

IMHO, Ancestry might be working with LE, because for what it is, Ancestry is very limited for DNA studies, yet all professional genealogists recommend it. The first, the hugest, database. DNA linked to trees and their different databases. And, Familysearch is their, too. Lots of information.

FTDNA, a much better company than the first two, was collaborating with LE. Ask them if you want to know more. But FTDNA is an interesting genetic company, tbh. If you transfer DNA to their offshoot, Geni, which is also linked to trees, you'll get a lot of matches, but so might the others.

Now, there is My Heritage. It has the trees and is a great site. I don't know who they collaborate with. They were smart to buy SNPedia and Promethease.

I really don't think you can hide your DNA nowadays. The laws, in general, always follow the infractions. So there will be laws to limit non-consented use of DNA for sure, and there will be more transparency. In fact, it is not about genealogy, it is about our internet footprint. I feel sorry for LE, and I feel sorry for Idaho that has to spend a lot of money on BK.

All of it might simply indicate that the idea to the police was not a smart one. If you don't want to end up spending more $$$ in the end, invest more in the beginning.

 

[Balthazar]

10ofRods - the library is much closer to 1122 King Rd geographically as opposed to going by street distance which is what I posted. Walking or driving via streets is .8 mile but it is a significantly circuitous route. It would be about .4 mile walking straight to it from 1122 King Rd. Please do the calculations for yourself and see what you think.

 

[MeadowMuffin]

10ofRods - the library is much closer to 1122 King Rd geographically as opposed to going by street distance which is what I posted. Walking or driving via streets is .8 mile but it is a significantly circuitous route. It would be about .4 mile walking straight to it from 1122 King Rd. Please do the calculations for yourself and see what you think.

Kohberger can't use the library as an alibi for the nght of the murders, as they close at 6pm on Saturdays during school session. Variable hours for summer and intersessions. M-Th hours are 6a-2a,F 6a-8p, Sat 12n-6p and Sun 12n-2a.

 

[SpiderFalcon]

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/...es-Resp-to-Def-7th-Supp-Req-for-Discovery.pdf
https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/...-to-Defendants-7th-Supp-Req-for-Discovery.pdf
https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/...s-Motion-to-Remove-Cameras-from-Courtroom.pdf
https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/...esp-to-Def-7th-Supp-Request-for-Discovery.pdf
New in the Idaho cases of interest page today

 

[Jurisprudence]

I'll drop to the ground laughing if defense is reading these boards and suddenly changes their alibi from he was driving around alone at night, because that's what he does, to he was at the library, not his library but the one across the border at a different school. They kept it open for him until 5 am. No cameras because there was a power outage.

jmo