4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #90

[maconrich]

And one camera operator actually wouldn't take direction from a bailiff and argued.

Exactly! I do wonder if people will be allowed to bring in cell phones or ipads. JJ seems to be aware that people are using them to take pics or record video or audio. I can see people who aren't media doing this just as much as the media might be. Defeats the purpose of controlling the cameras. MOO.

 

[Nila Aella]

Exactly! I do wonder if people will be allowed to bring in cell phones or ipads. JJ seems to be aware that people are using them to take pics or record video or audio. I can see people who aren't media doing this just as much as the media might be. Defeats the purpose of controlling the cameras. MOO.

From the order:

For the reasons set forth above, audio/visual coverage of any proceedings in this case willbe exclusively done by the Court. Media and the public are not allowed to video, photograph,audio record, or otherwise transmit during the proceedings
BBM

I did wonder if the bolded above was referring to cell phones/ipads and if it includes tweeting.
JMO

 

[Kittybunny]

I recently spent 4 days at a lake fairly close to home and I suspect I would have a hard time proving my presence. I bought no fuel, it's unlikely that I passed any traffic cameras, my phone was shut off for the duration and the people that may have seen me, were a couple of Korean fishermen who spoke very little English and not local.

Right, and if there was an unsolved murder at your next door neighbors, and your DNA was found on the murder weapon, it would look very bad for you.

Fortunately, investigations don't start by trying to prove that anyone without an alibi is the murderer, they start by finding the evidence at the scene, interviewing witnesses and identifying likely suspects, and then ruling them in or out, based on verifiable alibis.

In no way, IMO, does BK have a verifiable alibi that proves it was impossible for him to have committed this crime.

For perpetrators under a certain age, it would be highly unusual for their digital footprint, or absence of one, to not provide indicators as to where they were and were not.

(And I realize you are not arguing this either way, just giving an example of a real, but hard to verify alibi.)

 

[maconrich]

From the order:

For the reasons set forth above, audio/visual coverage of any proceedings in this case willbe exclusively done by the Court. Media and the public are not allowed to video, photograph,audio record, or otherwise transmit during the proceedings
BBM

I did wonder if the bolded above was referring to cell phones/ipads and if it includes tweeting.
JMO

I was wondering that too -- esp since there was a delay, or a bit of confusion, prior to the last hearing on if those devices would be allowed. It was determined they would be, but with the latest ruling, i do wonder if that's changed.

Edited to add: Replying to myself because I should have noted that JJ did tell people not to record with their phones/ipads (after the decision to allow them inside the court room).

 

[maconrich]

DBM (I realized I still had time to edit previous post)

 

[ktm44]

Right, and if there was an unsolved murder at your next door neighbors, and your DNA was found on the murder weapon, it would look very bad for you.

Fortunately, investigations don't start by trying to prove that anyone without an alibi is the murderer, they start by finding the evidence at the scene, interviewing witnesses and identifying likely suspects, and then ruling them in or out, based on verifiable alibis.

In no way, IMO, does BK have a verifiable alibi that proves it was impossible for him to have committed this crime.

For perpetrators under a certain age, it would be highly unusual for their digital footprint, or absence of one, to not provide indicators as to where they were and were not.

(And I realize you are not arguing this either way, just giving an example of a real, but hard to verify alibi.)

The extent of our digital footprint continues to surprise me. Two young men in Calgary were charged with murder and both had their charges stayed because their lawyer was able to prove that both were posting videos to TikTok at the time of the murder, from a signicant distance from the murder.

Edited to correct typo

 

[Nila Aella]

Maybe I'm too cynical. But I am not a fan. It's likely a fixed frame, audio could be close to nonexistent, and it can be taken off line at any time intermittently. And in his last paragraph, he also reserved the right to cut it off and end it at any time before the close of trial.

Will we see it all so that what we do see will be properly framed and in context? The pool camera is not a big deal. They are in courtrooms all over the country without incident in cases just as big or bigger than this. I am not loving this but we get what we get.

jmo

I'm worried about the audio as well. And the angles/distance they will choose. Hopefully they will have a couple viewpoints and decent audio.

Looking at the Courts You tube, it does not look like they post videos after the live is over. Does that mean it has to be recorded for the public to view it again? Does the Court distribute the video like a pool camera does? Hopefully someone will post it in its entirety.

Re: Court Minutes:
I noticed that the Court has not posted the Court minutes for the last two hearings 10/26 and 11/2, even though they are on the Case Summary page. The hearing before was posted promptly, but these last two have not been posted.

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/Summary/Case-Summary-Kohberger-11212023.pdf

All JMO

 

[Boxer]

I recently spent 4 days at a lake fairly close to home and I suspect I would have a hard time proving my presence. I bought no fuel, it's unlikely that I passed any traffic cameras, my phone was shut off for the duration and the people that may have seen me, were a couple of Korean fishermen who spoke very little English and not local.

Your car entering the feeding roads to the lake and exiting the lake area would existed at the time frame of your lake trip.
At a minimum the police or defense could try to corroborate your alibi with cameras from gas stations etc.
With premeditation a criminal might have used a different car to leave area, so it's not an airtight alibi, but you would have provided an alibi of a specific place or places you were.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I recently spent 4 days at a lake fairly close to home and I suspect I would have a hard time proving my presence. I bought no fuel, it's unlikely that I passed any traffic cameras, my phone was shut off for the duration and the people that may have seen me, were a couple of Korean fishermen who spoke very little English and not local.

If you bought anything anywhere on this trip, there is probably video footage. If on your trip, you passed business with security cameras, there is probably video footage of your car. Your cell phone provider can probably locate where you were when you shut your phone off and turned it back on. (I would always have the phone on when driving, in case of a need to call 9-1-1, so a search would show that). You probably told someone you were going to the lake. Unless you own a house or cabin at the lake, you had to talk to someone to arrange lodging, or buy supplies for camping. And so on. You probably leave more information and footprint than you realize.

 

[Boxer]

Also BK is not personally asserting his own innocence.
AT/BK threw responsibility to declare he is innocent to the court which had to enter a not guilty plea for him.
The AT/BK defense is is trying to get him off by procedural reasons.

 

[maconrich]

On the other hand, methods used to track people (in real time or after the fact) aren't always successful, or we wouldn't have so many missing persons... MOO.

 

[Nila Aella]

Your car entering the feeding roads to the lake and exiting the lake area would existed at the time frame of your lake trip.
At a minimum the police or defense could try to corroborate your alibi with cameras from gas stations etc.
With premeditation a criminal might have used a different car to leave area, so it's not an airtight alibi, but you woild have provided an alibi of a specific place or places you were.

Would businesses still have video from so long ago? Do they tape over after a period of time?
How long do intersection cameras keep video?
Wondering if this is a reason why the D needs to use the Ps expert witnesses/evidence and the CAST report?
MOO

 

[Boxer]

Would businesses still have video from so long ago? Do they tape over after a period of time?
How long do intersection cameras keep video?
Wondering if this is a reason why the D needs to use the Ps expert witnesses/evidence and the CAST report?
MOO

Of course, there are issues.
MOO but when there is a quadruple murder camera owners do get asked to keep the footage from the date, or they intuitively do it themselves.

If suspicion fell upon the person at the lake long after, there may be little road camera. There is still cell phone and satellite data on the way, gas and grocery buying etc.
But even just asserting that they were at place that excludes them being at the CS is an alibi, albeit a weak one since it's minus corroboration.

 

[Nila Aella]

Also BK is not personally asserting his own innocence.
AT/BK threw responsibility to declare he is innocent to the court which had to enter a not guilty plea for him.
The AT/BK defense is is trying to get him off by procedural reasons.

Both not entering a plea and not providing details of an alibi had to do with the motion to dismiss the GJ indictment. There has not been a ruling on the closed hearing motion to dismiss the GJ indictment yet.
JMO

 

[Nila Aella]

Of course, there are issues.
MOO but when there is a quadruple murder camera owners do get asked to keep the footage from the date, or they intuitively do it themselves.

If suspicion fell upon the person at the lake long after, there may be little road camera. There is still cell phone and satellite data on the way, gas and grocery buying etc.
But even just asserting that they were at place that excludes them being at the CS is an alibi, albeit a weak one since it's minus corroboration.

Agree, especially businesses in the immediate area. Like the gas station attendant that searched. I was thinking more out of the way areas. The D will have to go in search for those little road camera captures.
I have read about individuals being convicted even with an iron clad alibi, simply because they were not believed, only to be exonerated after conviction. I am not sure that AT providing a location will change his situation. This is going forward. ALL JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Agree, especially businesses in the immediate area. Like the gas station attendant that searched. I was thinking more out of the way areas. The D will have to go in search for those little road camera captures.
I have read about individuals being convicted even with an iron clad alibi, simply because they were not believed, only to be exonerated after conviction. I am not sure that AT providing a location will change his situation. This is going forward. ALL JMO

Funny how BK himself helped confirm the prosecution's case against him with his non-alibi.

Hypothetical

Prosecution:
"We saw your car at the murder scene at the time of the murders."

BK:
"Yah, well, I was out driving around at 4:00am I do that alot. I don't know where I was driving but I was out driving somewhere, I can't keep track all the roads look the same to me."

Defense to the jury:
Please believe Mr Kohberger, he says he wasn't on King Rd, just believe him.

 

[Boxer]

Both not entering a plea and not providing details of an alibi had to do with the motion to dismiss the GJ indictment. There has not been a ruling on the closed hearing motion to dismiss the GJ indictment yet.
JMO

MOO Yes to the alibi being able to be attributed in some way to the GJ, although the notice alibi defense had already been delayed by the time GJ was convened.

But BK not answering the charges and standing mute was done long before the GJ was arranged, as originally there was going to be a preliminary hearing.

 

[Cool Cats]

Both not entering a plea and not providing details of an alibi had to do with the motion to dismiss the GJ indictment. There has not been a ruling on the closed hearing motion to dismiss the GJ indictment yet.
JMO

When I looked into it I also came to the conclusion that his non-plea was because AT was trying to get his GJ indictment thrown out. There is some legal/strategic reason for this.

Like how can a client plead not guilty to charges in a GJ indictment when the GJ was “misled as to the standard of proof required for this indictment.”

2 Cents

 

[Boxer]

When I looked into it I also came to the conclusion that his non-plea was because AT was trying to get his GJ indictment thrown out. There is some legal/strategic reason for this.

Like how can a client plead not guilty to charges in a GJ indictment when the GJ was “misled as to the standard of proof required for this indictment.”

2 Cents

But MOO there was no GJ planned at the time of pleading.
Are you saying the standing mute was "in case" there was a GJ?

 

[Nila Aella]

MOO Yes to the alibi being able to be attributed in some way to the GJ, although the notice alibi defense had already been delayed by the time GJ was convened.

But BK not answering the charges and standing mute was done long before the GJ was arranged, as originally there was going to be a preliminary hearing.

Standing silent - There was a whole discussion about standing silent and why on previous threads.
AT could have been anticipaing the possibility of a GJ. MOO

Initially there was a States request for discovery...which is not listed any longer? Not sure why that was removed) iirc there was mention of request for alibi but I cannot be sure since it is not there anymore.

1/30 2023 - the defendants response to it

• 01/30/2023 Defendants Response to Request for Discovery

5/16 Indictment

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/051623+Indictment+-+Redacted.pdf

5/23 States Alibi demand

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/052323+States+Request+for+Discovery+Disclosure++Alibi+Demand.pdf

JMO