4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #94

[jepop]

Maybe they should make up their minds.

Bryan Kohberger gag order and other key developments from investigation

Details of items seized at the home of Kohberger's parents and information about his time as a fish cutter have emerged in recent days.

www.newsweek.com

Defense attorneys for Bryan Kohberger, the man accused of murdering four University of Idaho students, asked the Idaho Supreme Court this week to keep a gag order in place.

"What the media really seeks here is a procedural victory, knowing full well it cannot win on the merits of any test, given the pervasive and grotesquely twisted nature of media coverage that has occurred thus far," Jay Weston Logsdon, with the Kootenai County Public Defender's office, wrote in the court document.

He did not cite any examples of what he believed to be "twisted"coverage.

State is respectful of non diss order, defense only when it suits jmo

eta imo, defense is attempting to essentially control what gets disseminated prior to trial via court hearings using motions and objections

 

[Cool Cats]

State is resepectful of non diss order, defense only when it suits jmo

Didn't the defense say that kohberger had a right for the public to hear evidence?

I found this very weird.

 

[al66pine]

Statute of Limitation? Fam. Filing Petition for Deaths vs ID. Govt. Entities?

Not clear.
I know they filed the civil notices right at the deadline but are you saying they cannot sue after September/October? ….

snipped for focus @Cool Cats How I calculated SoL.
DoD = Nov. 13, 2022 = when claim arose.
SoL for filing petition = 2 yrs w'in claim arising.*
Today, May 30, 2024 = (virtually) June 1.
So ---
June, July, Aug, Sept, Oct, + 13 d. in Nov. 2024.
= now "less than 6 months" as my post said** for families to file civil tort petition in ct. imo.
ID. civil statute of limitation here: Two yrs. from time claim arose (date of death).

Also as my post said: "imo jmo moo icbw"
Usually I do okay w. numbers if I don't have to take my shoes off but welcoming correction or clarification.

______________________________
* US law. Statute of limitations, gen’ly. Civil cases. “A civil statute of limitations applies to a non-criminal legal action, including a tort or contract case. If the statute of limitations expires before a lawsuit is filed, the defendant may raise the statute of limitations as an affirmative defense to seek dismissal of the claim. The exact time period depends on both the state and the type of claim (contract claim, personal injury, fraud etc.)….”

Statute of limitations - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

ID. statute: 2 yrs for this type of action.

Section 6-908 – Idaho State Legislature

legislature.idaho.gov

Section 6-911 – Idaho State Legislature
Info from ID. law firm website, posted 1-17-23:
"How long do you have to file a claim under the Idaho Tort Claims Act?
"Claims under the Idaho Tort Claims Act must be brought within two years from the date the injury occurred or when it was discovered. (§ 6-911)."

** From my post earlier today: "Seems statute of limitation for filing petition is two years after the date the claim arose. Less than six mo. from now. imo jmo moo icbw"

 

[jepop]

Didn't the defense say that kohberger had a right for the public to hear evidence?

I found this very weird.

i believe so at earlier hearing in May she some attempted conflation between pre trial and trial jmo. I recall/believe/imo judge correcting her that a right to public trial and pre trial hearings differ, moo

 

[Cool Cats]

Statute of Limitation? Fam. Filing Petition for Deaths vs ID. Govt. Entities?

snipped for focus @Cool Cats Here’s how I calculated SoL.
DoD = Nov. 13, 2022 = when claim arose.
SoL for filing petition = 2 yrs w'in claim arising.*
Today, May 30, 2024 = (virtually) June 1.
So ---
June, July, Aug, Sept, Oct, + 13 d. in Nov. 2024.
= now "less than 6 months" as my post said** for families to file civil tort petition in ct. imo.
ID. civil statute of limitation here: Two yrs. from time claim arose (date of death).

Also as my post said: "imo jmo moo icbw"
Usually I do okay w. numbers if I don't have to take my shoes off but welcoming correction or clarification.

______________________________
* US law. Statute of limitations, gen’ly. Civil cases. “A civil statute of limitations applies to a non-criminal legal action, including a tort or contract case. If the statute of limitations expires before a lawsuit is filed, the defendant may raise the statute of limitations as an affirmative defense to seek dismissal of the claim. The exact time period depends on both the state and the type of claim (contract claim, personal injury, fraud etc.)….”

Statute of limitations - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

ID. statute: 2 yrs for this type of action.

Section 6-908 – Idaho State Legislature

legislature.idaho.gov

Section 6-911 – Idaho State Legislature
Info from ID. law firm website, posted 1-17-23:
"How long do you have to file a claim under the Idaho Tort Claims Act?
"Claims under the Idaho Tort Claims Act must be brought within two years from the date the injury occurred or when it was discovered. (§ 6-911)."

** From my post earlier today: "Seems statute of limitation for filing petition is two years after the date the claim arose. Less than six mo. from now. imo jmo moo icbw"

I will have to call you...

"Just The Facts Alpine"

Thanks

 

[Chloegirl]

There's a lot of information to understand at this point with today's developments in particular. I have lost track completely of the Change of Venue deadline. Anybody?

Just for fun I have a vague memory that this was by the end of May. Does that mean we only have tomorrow? JMOO I could be completely wrong given the events of today.

 

[Cool Cats]

Both sides employ experts that support their own arguments. Everyone is being paid, including the law enforcement, lawyers, judge, all the experts on both sides. Everyone has to earn a living. It doesn’t make anyone inheriantly bad to be paid to be an expert in court.

That’s why we have an impartial jury to make the ultimate decision.

Some jurisdictions consider LE testimony as part of their job so no extra money in it.

Sy Ray is a professional expert witness. 2 Cents

 

[Chloegirl]

I would like the Defense to be given expertly cataloged evidence yesterday. It doesn't suit either side to work under chaos, time constraints, and disorganization which is par for the course to a degree. So, take a time out for protocol ASAP. Perhaps this is common in ginormous evidence cases, but do it. JMOO

 

[snooptroop88]

I'm no lawyer but I think you're exactly right. AT is fishing for loopholes because she has to find a way to draft a convincing motion for an alibi defense.

She'll create an exhibit showing BK at ANY place where LE doesn't have any data. Fun, fun, LE canvassed the entire area and knows where BK was and was not, they aren't required to turn all of that over!!!

It's not the State's job to give BK an alibi!

They're not withholding relevant data, not withholding exculpatory data.

Clearly BK has not provided AT with a credible alibi so she's left swimming in molasses trying to figure out just how saturated LE's collection is so she doesn't alibi BK to a place LE can prove he wasn't!

JMO

Agreed. This isn't a "dig" at people trying to find reasons why it's not BK. I just don't see how it's going to happen, though. The D has to fight tooth and nail to get even an inch of ground. Say this cellular expert D has marches in and proves his point with 100% accuracy and emphasis. It just doesn't matter. There's just too much there. And even if they "proved" this particular claim, I'd still wonder, okay, he has this white Elantra, he's out driving around that night, this is an earth-shattering event that has just taken place in this location. He's a criminologist. Why wasn't Mr. Supposedly Innocent Criminologist tripping over himself to go and discuss the matter with LE? He wanted to work for LE. He thinks he's smarter than LE. Even if he's out innocently driving around in his car, they're looking for cars of his make/model, and he knows it. That would give Mr. Eager Beaver Criminologist an "in" to go hang out with LE and insert himself into this incredibly important case that occurred right in his backyard, so to speak. But he didn't. Look at BK and his defense. Does BK seem like a wilting violet who's afraid to "insert himself" into things when he can?

I agree with the person earlier who said you know, "bushy eyebrows," come on, that could cover a huge chunk of the population at large. Agreed on this as well, but it's like watching a turtle trying to scale Mt Everest on a deadline. It's not happening. AT seems like a great attorney. Some of them don't, so he's lucky in that respect. While I don't think AT (or anyone else) can help him escape conviction, she might be able to help him escape the DP. I find it admirable to at least try to find some needle-in-the-haystack piece of refuting evidence, and I'm sure such bits and pieces may be out there, but I just don't think it could ever be enough. Agree with AT that BK's already been convicted in the eyes of many, but not "in the press." By the evidence. And we undoubtedly don't even have all of it yet.

 

[grannygates]

Some jurisdictions consider LE testimony as part of their job so no extra money in it.

Sy Ray is a professional expert witness. 2 Cents

So the LE members would be paid through their salary.

It’s just common trope that lawyers bring up to discredit experts that I find hypocritical - experts who get paid are too greedy to trust, as though the lawyer isn’t getting paid too.

Experts are a necessary part of the judicial process. We need them and I don’t see the problem with someone earning an income for using the years of education and experience they have to provide expert testimony.

 

[Swansee]

What are these significant locations?

Sy Ray testified that the two locations they didn't receive data about are :
1) the Pullman -Moscow road
2) the actual crime scene
I'd agree those are very significant.

I would like the Defense to be given expertly cataloged evidence yesterday. It doesn't suit either side to work under chaos, time constraints, and disorganization which is par for the course to a degree. So, take a time out for protocol ASAP. Perhaps this is common in ginormous evidence cases, but do it. JMOO

1000% agree

 

[al66pine]

Gov't Entity Negligence. Emerging At Crim Trial?

Not clear… are you saying they cannot sue after September/October?
So that means that if any negligence were discovered during trial that they couldn't do anything about it.

snipped for focus @Cool Cats
IDK what evd of negligence – by the govt entities, i.e., City of Moscow, Uni of ID, St. of ID, iirc - might surface during crim trial against BK. Ideas? Anyone?
Trying to imagine what actions the gov’t entities could have taken BEFORE the deaths, which would have prevented the deaths but a tions the gov’t entities did not take. Ideas? Anyone?

Relevant info/evd.to support fam. negligence case should be on govt. entities’ actions BEFORE the deaths iiuc (not on alleged negligence in Moscow PD’s investigation or Latah County Prosecutor’s criminal against BK AFTER the deaths, which how I’ve read some of the fam’s & fam’s atty public criticism).

After the Nov. 2022 deaths, some fam's went into offense/attack mode (hired an investigator? at least talked about it) and did engage legal counsel. W'in what, 2-3 mo of deaths?

Seems they, atty, et al could have been investigating, trying to gather evd. of negligence, etc. by the gov’t entities before the deaths; maybe the fam’s team has had the pedal to the metal investigating since early 2023, IDK.

Regardless, what a horrific situation for all families of all the deceased.

 

[Cool Cats]

So the LE members would be paid through their salary.

It’s just common trope that lawyers bring up to discredit experts that I find hypocritical - experts who get paid are too greedy to trust, as though the lawyer isn’t getting paid too.

Experts are a necessary part of the judicial process. We need them and I don’t see the problem with someone earning an income for using the years of education and experience they have to provide expert testimony.

Compensation is a good thing.

Some experts are honest, some stretch the truth to fit the prosecution's narrative.

To find out which one Sy is, we need to see how this plays out.

A big zero?
Or evidence proves his point?

 

[whinewiththegravy]

IDK what evd of negligence – by the govt entities, i.e., City of Moscow, Uni of ID, St. of ID, iirc - might surface during crim trial against BK. Ideas? Anyone?
Trying to imagine what actions the gov’t entities could have taken BEFORE the deaths, which would have prevented the deaths but a tions the gov’t entities did not take. Ideas? Anyone?

Relevant info/evd.to support fam. negligence case should be on govt. entities’ actions BEFORE the deaths iiuc (not on alleged negligence in Moscow PD’s investigation or Latah County Prosecutor’s criminal against BK AFTER the deaths, which how I’ve read some of the fam’s & fam’s atty public criticism).

After the Nov. 2022 deaths, some fam's went into offense/attack mode (hired an investigator? at least talked about it) and did engage legal counsel. W'in what, 2-3 mo of deaths?

Seems they, atty, et al could have been investigating, trying to gather evd. of negligence, etc. by the gov’t entities before the deaths; maybe the fam’s team has had the pedal to the metal investigating since early 2023, IDK.

Regardless, what a horrific situation for all families of all the deceased.

For me, IMO et al, good questions.

Lawyers for one particular family may be banking on AT&co doing the groundwork for them and finding some local, tangential negligence. BK interacted with traffic cops in Pullman + his application to PD could be scrutinized. Thin gruel to be sure. He has no relevant record in any state in the union. Uni and his department have no duty of care, in terms of his status as graduate student, but to its students on employer/employee and federal discrimination grounds.

No criminal complaints lodged about his being a *advertiser endorsed* first-year TA—preoccupied with how displeasingly lazy and female and of color his grad peers and undergrad students were according to third party witnesses who interacted with him in this capacity and were privy to his whinging—for no such complaint could pass muster.

If most reporting is correct, his supposed dismissal by letter from one or more his program’s requirements only occurred after the arrest for reasons that include but are not limited to that arrest and circumstances of the arrest themselves; following a student into a parking lot to creep on her seems to have been more substantiated than the setting-up-another-female-student’s-security-cams-to-later-hack rumor (I expect they’ll only be proven if introduced to the court during trial), but I’d wager that even if these claims were believed and discussed by the committee that produced the dismissal, they would not meet uni standards for outright discipline and could only, at best, serve as weak corroboration for general unfitness.

But if more niche reporting is to be believed, his letter of reprimand was drafted, approved, and transmitted closer on either side to the winter holidays, possibly before the arrest but certainly after the murders. IMO, were that true, there has to be more complaints, or more details, than we have heard of.

Surely this is mostly a fishing exercise for a settlement? Maybe a firm hired on contingency think the trial will endear the public to the most vocal family such that local unrest will spur either/both city and/or either/both institution to settle? Such a settlement can’t possibly be done quietly in this case, if previous family engagements with press is any predictor. Since I personally don’t see signs that this family will ever successfully organize locals on their behalf, only angling for a national press campaign, by a political party, could exert this kind of pressure. I do wonder how such an F-off settlement would compare, dollars-wise, to compensation for evergreen media appearances and an advance for one or more ghostwritten memoirs?

That, or one or more families are intending to claim they were wronged because the investigation took too long to produce a viable suspect. That was definitely an aggressive, aggrieved, and perennial lament pre-arrest.

 

[girlhasnoname]

THIS IS NEW.

They had BK under visual surveillance.

I don't think they specified when... but they're talking specifically about cell towers in the Idaho and Washington.

(AT asked why they don't have cell data for certain areas, if I understand her correctly. Witness said they didn't need then because they knew where BK was, had a million dollar truck . Eyes on him

JMO
.

I thought that would be the case, glad to see it in B&W though.

 

[daydreamin]

Prove that. I have never seen any information anywhere where the DoorDash person claimed he saw Xana. Link, please.

That's b/c it's not true. DD driver never said anything like that.

IMO

 

[schooling]

I'I just caught up with yesterday's hearing.

1. Why does it always seem like Kohlberger's defense is a second away from dropping a bombshell...then whatever they end up doing is extremely underwhelming. MOO

2. The most interesting thing that they seem to be doing (MOO) is not only hinting at conspiracies or unwarranted secrecy by the FBI but ALSO leaking (that's what it is, let's be honest) and seemingly conditioning us for some the prosecutions case. Paraphrasing here but "He found X..." but they are not going to let us know what X is. and "surveillance" but we are not going to tell you what surveillance is. If this hearing deserves all of this cloak and dagger and implying and hinting it probably would have been more appropriate for a closed door hearing. IMO

3. If I heard them correctly it sounded like BK was under surveillance. Initially I thought, "they got him while he was a Pullman!". But then I remembered (or maybe misremembered) that this was said in reference to the PCA. So doesn't that mean the surveillance could have been outside of his home in PA? I was trying to go back and listen but got too lazy to find the time marker. Anyone have context?

4. It seems like prosecutors are pretty confident they are tracking the same Elantra from the home back to Pullman. And the defense is implying that prosecutors couldn't possibly know that it was the same Elantra because they didn't have surveillance from every other camera in Idaho (hyperbole on my part). That's not the doubt I think the defense thinks it is. MOO

5. They keep picking at the cell tower evidence data and the video because the combination of the two is extremely damning. You get one out and it weakens the other. You weaken one and it weakens the other. And if you do either of those things you can now question the DNA and introduce the implied secretive communications and non-saving of work. All of this is MOO, but if they are hinging the case on a calamity of errors or a helpless patsy or worse, a conspiracy. Good luck to BK.

AT is an extremely confident and competent lawyer though. I'm not sure BK could have gotten a better defense attorney with the cards he dealt himself.

MOO

 

[maskedwoman]

Wondering if the families would be more successful to go forward with a civil suit rather than waiting for this criminal case to go to trial? idk - moo

The burden of proof is lower in a civil trial, but isn't almost everything they would need to go to trial under seal? I don't think a civil could or would break that seal and potentially screw up the criminal case in order to hear a civil case.

 

[maskedwoman]

Both sides employ experts that support their own arguments. Everyone is being paid, including the law enforcement, lawyers, judge, all the experts on both sides. Everyone has to earn a living. It doesn’t make anyone inheriantly bad to be paid to be an expert in court.

That’s why we have an impartial jury to make the ultimate decision.

Of course not. I apologize if this has already been brought forward again, but it's not working for the defense that makes Sy Ray "bad". Here is an article where a judge disallowed his testimony because his methods haven't gained traction in the scientific community, that his work hasn't been published or subject to peer review, and that his methods and algorithms have been labeled as "junk science" by others in the community.

University of Idaho murder suspect's alibi defense puts spotlight on cellphone data analyst

Bryan Kohberger's defense team said it will turn to an Arizona-based cellphone data expert, Sy Ray, who has typically worked for the prosecution in criminal cases.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[al66pine]

For me, IMO et al, good questions.

Lawyers for one particular family may be banking on AT&co doing the groundwork for them and finding some local, tangential negligence. BK interacted with traffic cops in Pullman + his application to PD could be scrutinized. Thin gruel to be sure. He has no relevant record in any state in the union. Uni and his department have no duty of care, in terms of his status as graduate student, but to its students on employer/employee and federal discrimination grounds.

No criminal complaints lodged about his being a *advertiser endorsed* first-year TA—preoccupied with how displeasingly lazy and female and of color his grad peers and undergrad students were according to third party witnesses who interacted with him in this capacity and were privy to his whinging—for no such complaint could pass muster.

If most reporting is correct, his supposed dismissal by letter from one or more his program’s requirements only occurred after the arrest for reasons that include but are not limited to that arrest and circumstances of the arrest themselves; following a student into a parking lot to creep on her seems to have been more substantiated than the setting-up-another-female-student’s-security-cams-to-later-hack rumor (I expect they’ll only be proven if introduced to the court during trial), but I’d wager that even if these claims were believed and discussed by the committee that produced the dismissal, they would not meet uni standards for outright discipline and could only, at best, serve as weak corroboration for general unfitness.

But if more niche reporting is to be believed, his letter of reprimand was drafted, approved, and transmitted closer on either side to the winter holidays, possibly before the arrest but certainly after the murders. IMO, were that true, there has to be more complaints, or more details, than we have heard of.

Surely this is mostly a fishing exercise for a settlement? Maybe a firm hired on contingency think the trial will endear the public to the most vocal family such that local unrest will spur either/both city and/or either/both institution to settle? Such a settlement can’t possibly be done quietly in this case, if previous family engagements with press is any predictor. Since I personally don’t see signs that this family will ever successfully organize locals on their behalf, only angling for a national press campaign, by a political party, could exert this kind of pressure. I do wonder how such an F-off settlement would compare, dollars-wise, to compensation for evergreen media appearances and an advance for one or more ghostwritten memoirs?

That, or one or more families are intending to claim they were wronged because the investigation took too long to produce a viable suspect. That was definitely an aggressive, aggrieved, and perennial lament pre-arrest.

Not snipping, as the entire ^post^ is worth re-reading.
@whinewiththegravy TYVM.
“Thin gruel.”
An apt description of what I anticipate could be presented, if any fam's actually file petition in ct. for wrongful death against the ID.govt entities, which were previously given notice of claim under ID statute.
(Plus another potential def’t in Washington, under WA. statute? Pullman PD, City of Pullman, or WSU-Pullman, or ? I’ve forgotten.)

What actions did these ^ entities take (or fail to take) BEFORE Nov. 12-13, 2022, that would have PREVENTED these students’ deaths? IDK.

Imo jmo moo icbw