4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #94

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WTH

Last hearing, AT was up in arms of withheld CCTV on the form if DOT screenshots as archived by WINDY.com.

The State had reached out to LE who ASSEMBLED info from various sources, ultimately showing it to be a dead end. Full stop. Gave her images with zero evidentiary value anyway.

Today she's representing that the State did something hinky by agreeing to her ask, having LE pull up the portion of their relevant work product. They didn't alter, concoct, create anything!

Judge says, it's seems like we we're having trouble with words, or something to that effect. No kidding. AT is swirling words so fast she's created the whole snow globe.

JMO
 
The recordkeeping practices are alarming. There’s no grand digital inventory of the surveillance footage that was submitted. No hard drive of all pertinent video footage received. It’s kept loose on random thumb drives taped to pieces of paper. No wonder some is “missing”.

The State claims nothing is missing. How does the Defense know that a specific bit of film is "missing"? (These are usually issues that go to the Judge's chamber as trial is starting or after it starts - when both sides submit the list of actual evidence they intend to use, which hasn't happened yet).

Someone or some persons actually parsed and divided and labeled the evidence submission. It's often done by hand (a bit odd to tape things to pieces of paper, but same effect as using an envelope). If the thumb drive disappears from its label, the label would be easy to refer to, to ask for a replacement.

The only way, in court, that someone can get something that's "missing" is to prove it existed in the first place - which Judge Judge keeps asking the Defense to do. The Defense wants to say that there's just so much evidence to go over that they are overwhelmed and can't find any particular piece.

Traditionally, each side waits until the other side draws forth a piece of evidence to present at trial (say 70 surveillance tapes, labeled as 70 pieces of evidence).

Then the other side goes and looks to see if they have it (they ought to have devised their own system by then). I would think that reviewing all videos (easily parsed out of thumb drives by looking at the file extensions) would be a priority for the Defense. Indeed, I'm guessing that AT knows full well what those videos show (and she isn't attacking them as evidence and instead is pretty silent about that). The only things she seems to think are missing are in the hands of the FBI and/or the IGG company used by LD.

Will Judge Judge give Defense more time to organize and perhaps figure out (using the parallel discovery filed with the Court - organized in the same manner, no doubt) what is missing? If he thinks the Defense lost the submission, he won't give them a lot of time (he almost has to give them some time though).

The reason AT keeps bringing up the disparity between when the State mentioned the existence of footage (for example) and when she received it...is that she justifiably believes that her office should have the same amount of time as the State to review matters.

I don't think we'll see a trial even by mid-2025. The surveillance video alone (some of which perhaps as yet unseen by AT and team) is massive. Judge Judge may order the State to make yet another copy - and this time segregate just that footage. Who knows? If that happens, though, AT will then want the clock for perusal to be set for a year from now - as that's how long she's claiming the State had, at least.

State has repeatedly stated that it already gave this to the Defense. At some point, Judge Judge will require a witness to the manual transfer of evidence (if this keeps happening) and will then begin to sanction the Defense for being disorganized. But I don't think that's what AT is after - she wants something that the State will continue to claim it doesn't have (because it doesn't have it).

IMO.

There is no legal requirement to submit discovery on a hard drive, btw. Maybe Judge Judge will order that next - we shall see. Then, the thumb drives will be loaded onto hard drives. Just more work, and I'm not sure what the purpose would be (now the hard drives would have to have some external labels representing many many files - whereas the thumb drives are more like file folders, many lawyers prefer thumb drives for that reason - easier for the lawyer to search and quote).
 
Can an attorney help an idiot like me here? Thanks in advance if so.

The case has not gone to trial or been scheduled yet, correct?

So if so - isn’t it the case that only sufficient evidence need be used, given, or sworn by Affidavit to charge the defendant and bring the case to trial? And that not all evidence be disclosed to defense until another point in the proceedings?

This may have already been asked and answered……. but I won’t be able to find the thread or link.

And I wish the defendant was having to pay for this from his funds…… and not on the public ‘dime’ as it were IIUC. Might make it more expedient and efficient. MOO

IANAL, but 45 years of forensic work/trial consulting/jury consulting etc.

This case is no where near trial. They're still arguing about discovery (and other pre-trial matters).

Discovery means that ALL the evidence that either side has must be turned over to the other side. Defense says the State has failed to do so. State says it does not have the things being asked for OR has already turned them over. Defense says there's SO MUCH that they aren't sure if they have a particular piece. None of this has to do with the affidavit for arrest. Nor does it have to do with the evidence that will come in, in trial.

There is almost always a huge pile of evidence that neither side wishes to place before the Court (when the trial starts). The jury will never see it. In the immediate pre-trial phase, each side has to label its Exhibits. That's when the arguing about specific bits of evidence will begin. Think today's hearing - and tomorrow's, but going on and on, as AT is clearly going to do.

The rule in Idaho and all other states is that ALL evidence obtained by any party to a suit (criminal or civil) must be given to the other side(s) in a timely manner as determined by the Court.

Court set a date (months ago) for that. The State claims it has complied. The Defense says it's still missing some things. Defense must now try to identify and label what it thinks is missing. State will likely continue to say "It never existed."

IMO.
 
Not understanding why the judge allows this to continue? idk.

-- Enough is enough
-- This could go on and on - defense continue to claim they need certain things
-- The state doesnt give them all the information


-- The state says they can't turn over what they dont have

The defense is basically calling the state liars? idk.

Typical of defense strategy to cause delays, but why does the judge allow this?

Why does this continue to be acceptable?

Why doesnt the judge intervene?

moo
 
AT just misrepresented what her own witness just said

He said it could be exculpatory. It could be good for the defense but it could also be good for the State.

If LE plotted 18% of the points from which they mapped his possible route, AT seems to be asking for an imaginary 82% of points, expecting a full reel of the Elantra! It doesn't work that way!!! Business cameras don't always record, some are broken, there might not be cameras along a stretch, some overwritten or not saved....

She wants to bog this down forever.

JMO
 
Bryan Kohberger pre-trial hearing starting now. Defense just called Brett Payne as a witness - he is the Detective Corporal with the Moscow, Idaho Police Department. He is the case agent for the Kohberger case. He is in charge of the investigation.


Moscow, Idaho Police Det. Brett Payne says thousands of hours of surveillance video was collected as part of the Bryan Kohberger investigation. Defense is asking him how to find certain videos.


Defense questioning of Moscow, Idaho Police detective Payne is focused on surveillance video. He says they have thousands of hours of video in Kohberger investigation from 79 businesses and residences. Defense seems to be questioning whether they have been given all the video.


Sy Ray -- defense expert in cell phone data – is now on the stand in the Bryan Kohberger pre-trial hearing. Stream is here:

Sy Ray - Kohberger defense expert in cell phone data - is still on the stand in pre-trial hearing. He says 2-3% of cell phone data in the case is missing. "Some of the most significant locations in the case are missing data," Ray says during defense questioning.


“Discovery is being given to us like we are living in a snow globe.”Bryan Kohberger defense continues to complain they are not getting evidence and exhibits in an organized way.


Bryan Kohberger pre-trial hearing on a break now until 5pmET. Expecting them to talk about DNA evidence when they come back which may be blocked from the public. You can watch what has happened so far here.

 
Wondering if the families would be more successful to go forward with a civil suit rather than waiting for this criminal case to go to trial? idk - moo

Problem is that BK is broke, he is an indigent defendant. The plaintiffs would never collect a dime from him and their attorneys wouldn't even get paid..... 2 Cents
 
Wondering if the families would be more successful to go forward with a civil suit rather than waiting for this criminal case to go to trial? idk - moo

That may be what the G family is thinking. It could be done, if they wished. I would certainly understand why. They want to see the evidence - but I suspect the Civil Court will receive motions to place gag orders until the criminal trial is over.

I also wonder who in heck would defend BK. Surely he has no assets?

He could just default out of the civil suit.

If BK is sued and says, "I default out of this, I have no money," then the G family still doesn't get what it wants (the full story of what happened or as close to it as grieving family wants to get to it).

(This would obviously be a different case than the one the G family has already filed against, I believe, Moscow PD).

IIRC. IMO.
 
@dugganreports


Taking over monitoring the Bryan Kohberger hearing this morning.Not a ton going on, but Anne Taylor is asking Det. Brett Payne about the chain of evidence for video surveillance— Most was handled by the FBI, and he wasn’t the evidence custodian, so he’s telling her to look there



Payne said LE collected thousands of surveillance videos. Could take hours to go thru. I’m curious why he’s on the stand when he isn’t the FBI. Moving onto affidavits. Again, not a ton going on


I guess something I never knew: The search for the Elantra was the years of 2011-2013 make/model, it was expanded up to the year of 2016 because an FBI agent further reviewed video footage and determined it could be a newer model.


Not super shocking that MPD officers can’t remember every transfer of video since they worked in the same building and likely walked back and forth to share things and speak with one another.


Taylor questioned the detective pretty hard about why he wrote a search warrant for cell data if he doesn’t know a ton about it. He said he relies on people who have more expertise in that area.Similarly, a data expert might not be the person you’d turn to to write a warrant


Taylor said she saw the evidence inventory and there’s multiple flash drives with labels on them. Implied she has to dig through hours of those to find the surveillance videos (of roads leaving Moscow) she’s looking for.Payne said that would be the way to do it.


If i recall… again… MPD turned over 51 terabytes of digital material.And I know that becauseeee I wrote about it for @KTVB
last year

OK so there’s a report from AT&T that Taylor is having this expert witness explain the company could’ve turned over far before they actually turned it over. So it was available to LE in May of 2023 and he is saying it was accessible before that


once again, not a ton going on and it’s super inside baseball here. the only person that would understand this intricate explanation of cell data and geo location would be… people much smarter than like, everyone


He says 6 months of cell data was collected from Kohberger’s phone and the FBI “mapped” 6% of that total“It is a terrible practice to justify probable cause for these very detailed call records… and not map it.”


He says when he gets the rest of the data he would be able to change his mind. What’s missing is benefitting the defense. Says that it’s possible more info would help the state, or not. Who knows.


State doesn’t cross examine. No more witnesses.


Once again, defense says they need certain things, state says “we can’t turn over what we don’t have.”

State: We turned over 71 subpoenas, detailed what they were for and who.

This “we gave it to you” and “we don’t have it” argument has been happening for a hot minute now.
 
When the initial videos were reviewed looking for evidence, investigators had the assistance of the FBI, using the almost unlimited resources of the federal government.

The defense is trying to review this same data with two lawyers and probably a few paralegal and interns. It will take a very long time to review. Likely what the defense is looking for is not the white car documented by the prosecution, but other white cars with a similar appearance seen in locations well away from the crime scene.

In the end, the only real hope the defense has is to somehow exclude the DNA on the sheath. If they can do that, the state is left with a case of:
1) An eyewitness whose description the the killer is not inconsistent with the defendant.
2) Phone pings showing that the defendant was near the same cell tower of the house.
3) The defendant is a strange guy.
4) The defendant had no cell service around the time of the murders.
+ whatever information is covered by the gag order.

Without the DNA, the prosecution still has a good chance of being successful, especially if the "gagged" information is useful.
With the DNA in play, I see no successful strategy for the defense.
 
At the start of Thursday’s hearing, one witness, Moscow Police Det. Brett Payne, said thousands of hours of surveillance video were collected as part of the investigation into Kohberger. Defense Attorney Anne Taylor asked him how to find certain videos.

Payne said police have thousands of hours of video from 79 businesses and residences pertaining to the Kohberger investigation. The defense, however, questioned whether they were given all the footage, which has been a recurring theme in the pre-trial hearings.

Defense attorneys for Kohberger have accused prosecutors of not turning over all of the evidence they had during their discovery process, which the state denied.

Besides the surveillance video, defense attorneys for Kohberger also appeared to try and figure out if they were missing any cell phone data evidence.

Bryan Kohberger defense asks about evidence during hearing

Updated: MAY 30, 2024 / 03:52 PM CDT

bob_003.gif
 
My takeaway:

AT wants AT&T, IGG, and CCTV. All of it for all time, labeled and sorted.

Because she knows she can't get it. Therefore she can't craft an alibi defense so it's not the defendant's fault he has no alibi, it's the State's because they don't show her all the places BK never was.

JMO
 
@BrianEntin

Sy Ray - Kohberger defense expert in cell phone data - is still on the stand in pre-trial hearing. He says 2-3% of cell phone data in the case is missing. "Some of the most significant locations in the case are missing data," Ray says during defense questioning.


2:54 PM · May 30, 2024
What are these significant locations?
 
My takeaway:

AT wants AT&T, IGG, and CCTV. All of it for all time, labeled and sorted.

Because she knows she can't get it. Therefore she can't craft an alibi defense so it's not the defendant's fault he has no alibi, it's the State's because they don't show her all the places BK never was.

JMO

Defense sounds excruciatingly desperate. They want their Aha! Moment.

They got nothing zilch for an alibi and they are desperately seeking something, anything at this point.

2 Cents
 
Last edited:
Problem is that BK is broke, he is an indigent defendant. The plaintiffs would never collect a dime from him and their attorneys wouldn't even get paid..... 2 Cents
But the civil suits the parents have talked about aren't against BK. They are against the City of Moscow, the University, and the State of Idaho. (Might be a few I forgot.)
MOO
 
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