4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #95

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jepop said:
Thanks for posting @Nila Aella. Looks good and organised! I like the planning ahead and triple JJJ keeping the house in order. Three months seems so long for the trial but then realised time frame is intended to accommodate jury selection & voir dire (?) and also potential penalty phase.
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Agree, much better to err on the side of caution, especially in a DP case.

MOO
 
I'm going there. To Howard Blum's new book. I've done all the eye rolling. I don't like his style in his articles whatsoever, but the writing is better in the book, mostly. I listened to it on Audible.

I was trying to see if there was anything to learn there for myself. His notes about sourcing were particularly interesting. He explained his thought process as to how he wrote the book. I am not necessarily agreeing with his approach or his timing, but I found there was more merit than I had assumed.

Still, you have to take everything in this case with a pinch of salt. He claims not to have spoken to MK (BKs dad) or SG, but his sources are close. I will not defend his work whatsoever, just say that I was surprised that it pulled some thoughts together. He went in unexpected directions. I noted several errors.

It corroborates things we already know, reinforces it so to speak. There is a lot going on in the background of this case that the gag order is containing for now, with real reason to do so.

Just for what it's worth. JMOO
 
Chloegirl said:
I'm going there. To Howard Blum's new book. I've done all the eye rolling. I don't like his style in his articles whatsoever, but the writing is better in the book, mostly. I listened to it on Audible.

I was trying to see if there was anything to learn there for myself. His notes about sourcing were particularly interesting. He explained his thought process as to how he wrote the book. I am not necessarily agreeing with his approach or his timing, but I found there was more merit than I had assumed.

Still, you have to take everything in this case with a pinch of salt. He claims not to have spoken to MK (BKs dad) or SG, but his sources are close. I will not defend his work whatsoever, just say that I was surprised that it pulled some thoughts together. He went in unexpected directions. I noted several errors.

It corroborates things we already know, reinforces it so to speak. There is a lot going on in the background of this case that the gag order is containing for now, with real reason to do so.

Just for what it's worth. JMOO
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Thanks for this review. I just heard a podcast episode with this author and came here to see if anyone had read it or if it was being discussed.
 
KellySleuth said:
Thanks for this review. I just heard a podcast episode with this author and came here to see if anyone had read it or if it was being discussed.
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So my wife spent one of her 15 work granted Audible credits (they can spend them on literally anything) on the book. Out of morbid curiosity I listened. Quick thoughts below...if you want me to cut to the chase: We could have written this book.

I like that Blum used an analogy I used way way back. The Tyson quote (though others said it before him) - "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face" cited as the reason Kohberger messed up and left the sheath.
He went in for one and the rest were collateral damage (sorry for the ineloquent term)
Kohberger's Dad flew to Idaho out of concern for his son, the family seemed to suspect something was up
The FBI did (according to Blum) tail Kolhberger via a plane on his trip from CA to PA
All the weird stories of the pool party and Kolberger just being an intense and odd person by all accounts
Blum seems to confirm not only the Amazon knife receipt, but also the rumors of a receipt for dark blue Dickie's jumpsuit. Neither of which have surfaced.
There are a few other surprises in there too that I won't spoil. All are amazingly grounded and seem plausible. None point to guilt anymore than what we've heard or the two rumored receipts. It's far less sensationalist than I was expecting. And unlike his newsletter/blog posts he was careful to properly preface all inner thoughts that he couldn't possibly have known.

Though I do suspect the last chapter might upset some people. It treats the defense's case far more seriously than I ever would....it gives some background (according to his sources) on how the defense has followed up with some of the more controversial rumored claims of drug involvement. But disappointedly it only spends about a minute debunking a few things he had previously proposed while ignoring others that are easily debunkable.

Lastly, I proposed on here on June 3rd that Kohlberger had gone on that drive a million times before and chickened out. I called it a "a spontaneous execution of a plan"...
schooling said:
There's also a good chance, IMO, that he had gone on other rides like that before. In that, he was fully prepared to take advantage of whatever he perceived as an opportunity in that moment.

I can see alibi's becoming less and less important every time he made such a trip and it results in nothing.

The crime has always come off to me as a spontaneous execution of a plan. Which in my opinion explains the dichotomy of the seemingly haphazard drive to the house in full view of cameras but the stealth backroad exit and disposal of evidence.
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Blum proposes the same thing to tie together everything in the book. I guess I like the guy a lot more than I originally thought? JK

MOO
 
Chloegirl said:
I'm going there. To Howard Blum's new book. I've done all the eye rolling. I don't like his style in his articles whatsoever, but the writing is better in the book, mostly. I listened to it on Audible.

I was trying to see if there was anything to learn there for myself. His notes about sourcing were particularly interesting. He explained his thought process as to how he wrote the book. I am not necessarily agreeing with his approach or his timing, but I found there was more merit than I had assumed.

Still, you have to take everything in this case with a pinch of salt. He claims not to have spoken to MK (BKs dad) or SG, but his sources are close. I will not defend his work whatsoever, just say that I was surprised that it pulled some thoughts together. He went in unexpected directions. I noted several errors.

It corroborates things we already know, reinforces it so to speak. There is a lot going on in the background of this case that the gag order is containing for now, with real reason to do so.

Just for what it's worth. JMOO
Click to expand...

schooling said:
So my wife spent one of her 15 work granted Audible credits (they can spend them on literally anything) on the book. Out of morbid curiosity I listened. Quick thoughts below...if you want me to cut to the chase: We could have written this book.

I like that Blum used an analogy I used way way back. The Tyson quote (though others said it before him) - "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face" cited as the reason Kohberger messed up and left the sheath.
He went in for one and the rest were collateral damage (sorry for the ineloquent term)
Kohberger's Dad flew to Idaho out of concern for his son, the family seemed to suspect something was up
The FBI did (according to Blum) tail Kolhberger via a plane on his trip from CA to PA
All the weird stories of the pool party and Kolberger just being an intense and odd person by all accounts
Blum seems to confirm not only the Amazon knife receipt, but also the rumors of a receipt for dark blue Dickie's jumpsuit. Neither of which have surfaced.
There are a few other surprises in there too that I won't spoil. All are amazingly grounded and seem plausible. None point to guilt anymore than what we've heard or the two rumored receipts. It's far less sensationalist than I was expecting. And unlike his newsletter/blog posts he was careful to properly preface all inner thoughts that he couldn't possibly have known.

Though I do suspect the last chapter might upset some people. It treats the defense's case far more seriously than I ever would....it gives some background (according to his sources) on how the defense has followed up with some of the more controversial rumored claims of drug involvement. But disappointedly it only spends about a minute debunking a few things he had previously proposed while ignoring others that are easily debunkable.

Lastly, I proposed on here on June 3rd that Kohlberger had gone on that drive a million times before and chickened out. I called it a "a spontaneous execution of a plan"...


Blum proposes the same thing to tie together everything in the book. I guess I like the guy a lot more than I originally thought? JK

MOO
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Agree. Watched Blum on Nancy Grace, reslized that if cases ae going to take years to get to court there are going to be books about the arrest and trial preparations.

All his material was reasonable.
 
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Boxer said:
Agree. Watched Blum on Nancy Grace, reslized that if cases ae going to take years to get to court there are going to be books about the arrest and trial preparations.

All his material was reasonable.
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Well, he also may need an income. I still don't like him or his writing, but without going into a diatribe about him, it could have been a lot worse. I don't think it answered any questions per se, but it wasn't off base completely. And it was quite inclusive of a lot of things we've heard.

I believe he quoted that he interviewed like 342 people, or roughly around that number. I was hesitant to bring this topic up because nobody likes him, including me. I did not want to give him credit. JMOO
 
Chloegirl said:
Well, he also may need an income. I still don't like him or his writing, but without going into a diatribe about him, it could have been a lot worse. I don't think it answered any questions per se, but it wasn't off base completely. And it was quite inclusive of a lot of things we've heard.

I believe he quoted that he interviewed like 342 people, or roughly around that number. I was hesitant to bring this topic up because nobody likes him, including me. I did not want to give him credit. JMOO
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I dont know who he is or what he has previously written. But yes, as Schooling pointed out anyone on this thread could have written his book, so it's kind of a summary of the public domain. <modsnip: no source link>
 
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schooling said:
So my wife spent one of her 15 work granted Audible credits (they can spend them on literally anything) on the book. Out of morbid curiosity I listened. Quick thoughts below...if you want me to cut to the chase: We could have written this book.

I like that Blum used an analogy I used way way back. The Tyson quote (though others said it before him) - "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face" cited as the reason Kohberger messed up and left the sheath.
He went in for one and the rest were collateral damage (sorry for the ineloquent term)
Kohberger's Dad flew to Idaho out of concern for his son, the family seemed to suspect something was up
The FBI did (according to Blum) tail Kolhberger via a plane on his trip from CA to PA
All the weird stories of the pool party and Kolberger just being an intense and odd person by all accounts
Blum seems to confirm not only the Amazon knife receipt, but also the rumors of a receipt for dark blue Dickie's jumpsuit. Neither of which have surfaced.
There are a few other surprises in there too that I won't spoil. All are amazingly grounded and seem plausible. None point to guilt anymore than what we've heard or the two rumored receipts. It's far less sensationalist than I was expecting. And unlike his newsletter/blog posts he was careful to properly preface all inner thoughts that he couldn't possibly have known.

Though I do suspect the last chapter might upset some people. It treats the defense's case far more seriously than I ever would....it gives some background (according to his sources) on how the defense has followed up with some of the more controversial rumored claims of drug involvement. But disappointedly it only spends about a minute debunking a few things he had previously proposed while ignoring others that are easily debunkable.

Lastly, I proposed on here on June 3rd that Kohlberger had gone on that drive a million times before and chickened out. I called it a "a spontaneous execution of a plan"...


Blum proposes the same thing to tie together everything in the book. I guess I like the guy a lot more than I originally thought? JK

MOO
Click to expand...
I love your phrase "spontaneous execution of a plan." Collapses so much into a phrase.

Thanks so much for this excellent review of the book.
 
Starz2Starz said:
I just now ordered Howard Blum's book and still to read it, but I understand he believes that Maddie was the target. If so, does he offer possible motives and how he arrived at that conclusion?
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I believe he makes the assumption they met at Mad Greek restaurant where she worked and he was potentially a customer. That has never been confirmed by a reliable source though, if I'm correct?
 
It stands to reason that, new to the area and a confirmed vegan, BK might enquire of the MA's Greek whether they are truly vegan. No contact, dedicated pans, etc.

Now Mad Greek personnel were pointed that BK has never been served... two of their employees are dead, unable to recall whether they encountered BK.

I think it's entirely possible BK lurked at the Mad Greek, if not inside, outside. In the lot, waiting for waitresses. I think BK encountered X or M or X & M at the Mad Greek, even asking his awkward (creepy) question, "where do you live?" And following the likely brush-off (he would see it as rejection, women see it as self-protection, spidey sense), how easy for him to tail her home....

Even if a waitress where friendly about it, he'd probably perceive that wrong too IMO.

I'm curious about those twelve trips into Moscow... do any align with closing time at the Mad Greek? M or X might have had a stalker without ever even knowing...

There's always a nexus. IMO it's going to be the Mad Greek, and the nighttime road prowler following a waitress home....

JMO
 
Megnut said:
It stands to reason that, new to the area and a confirmed vegan, BK might enquire of the MA's Greek whether they are truly vegan. No contact, dedicated pans, etc.

Now Mad Greek personnel were pointed that BK has never been served... two of their employees are dead, unable to recall whether they encountered BK.

I think it's entirely possible BK lurked at the Mad Greek, if not inside, outside. In the lot, waiting for waitresses. I think BK encountered X or M or X & M at the Mad Greek, even asking his awkward (creepy) question, "where do you live?" And following the likely brush-off (he would see it as rejection, women see it as self-protection, spidey sense), how easy for him to tail her home....

Even if a waitress where friendly about it, he'd probably perceive that wrong too IMO.

I'm curious about those twelve trips into Moscow... do any align with closing time at the Mad Greek? M or X might have had a stalker without ever even knowing...

There's always a nexus. IMO it's going to be the Mad Greek, and the nighttime road prowler following a waitress home....

JMO
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Also, if what you are proposing is true, BKs absolute blindness to social norms regarding men talking to women in public in the US today would surface.
He would not realize that a man who is a customer talking to an employee of a restaurant is an economic unit for the owner and employee (in the form of tips.)

The dynamic is that the employees job is to talk to customers and make them pleased. A lot of people do mistake customer service interactions for real conversations, and of course there can be actual liking at first sight, and the conversation might transition to a real and voluntary one on the part of the employee.
IMO zero waitressess are telling customer men "where they live." Even generally like in the same city etc.

BK is not attractive due to intense staring, and his arrogance is probably noticable immediately, and this rules out a liking to override the rule.


Women who had to talk him because of work or hierarchy (academically at WSU) probably pretty often felt pretty uncomfortable.

Unknown if with of the victims might have had an interaction that let BK know he was violating those customer-employee rules, even subtly - and offended him - because obtuse men often see outgoing women as owing them something.
 
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So in a nutsell he could walked in to the Mad Greek been overly intrusive on first contact got shut down and left immediately and no other employees would remember him being there.
Unpleasant men are not remarkable so his momentary presence might never come up again in any context.
However BK may have waited in his car doing his driving around thing and followed one of them. Imagine his surprise when he found she/they lived in a fishbowl.
 
Megnut said:
It stands to reason that, new to the area and a confirmed vegan, BK might enquire of the MA's Greek whether they are truly vegan. No contact, dedicated pans, etc.

Now Mad Greek personnel were pointed that BK has never been served... two of their employees are dead, unable to recall whether they encountered BK.

I think it's entirely possible BK lurked at the Mad Greek, if not inside, outside. In the lot, waiting for waitresses. I think BK encountered X or M or X & M at the Mad Greek, even asking his awkward (creepy) question, "where do you live?" And following the likely brush-off (he would see it as rejection, women see it as self-protection, spidey sense), how easy for him to tail her home....

Even if a waitress where friendly about it, he'd probably perceive that wrong too IMO.

I'm curious about those twelve trips into Moscow... do any align with closing time at the Mad Greek? M or X might have had a stalker without ever even knowing...

There's always a nexus. IMO it's going to be the Mad Greek, and the nighttime road prowler following a waitress home....

JMO
Click to expand...
I remember seeing the outdoor seating and tables in videos and photos of Mad Greek restaurant, so Kohberger could have sat outside and never even entered the establishment, yet he could have still seen or interacted with Maddie and Xana at some point.
 
Sundog said:
<snipped for focus>

Does Blum provide sources for this claim of the Amazon knife receipt? IIRC, this hasn't been confirmed by LE at this point.
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Blum always says he has sources. And he doesn't disclose them by name. This is not particularly odd in journalism, I guess. Anyway, it happens all the time.

If he exposed his sources, he wouldn't have many more sources. Journalists do things in our system that LE cannot do.

Is Blum honorable and correct? Are his sources good? It's a piece of non-fiction writing. It rests entirely on his reputation. It's up to each of us to decide whether to believe him.

As someone who also writes "for the trade," it's always about whether our publishers believe us. They don't want lawsuits. OTOH, if an occasional supposition or conjecture is treated as fact in a book by a journalist, the book itself can become controversial.

If Blum is wrong about the receipt, he has burned a big portion of his future career (but not burned all of it, because some people won't be paying attention). He'll just need to switch to a different crime. He might want to get out of crime writing in general, actually, if that's the case. I tend to trust his basic journalistic instincts, because I don't think he's trying to get himself cancelled.

IMO
 
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