4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #95

[whiterhino]

This question is actually very interesting and more complex than it appears at first glance. I did a little research and each state actually decides when a suspect's DNA will be entered into CODIS. These are the rules from the Idaho DNA database act: https://legislature.idaho.gov/wp-content/uploads/statutesrules/idstat/Title19/T19CH55.pdf

At the very bottom of page 3, there is a section which discusses this very issue: 19-5507. Responsibility for Sample Collection--Timing of Sample Collection--Site for Sample Collection.

It looks to me (based on Page 3- 4, (1)) that the DNA for CODIS is normally collected after conviction and before sentencing. So...I'm not sure if BK's DNA is in CODIS or not at this time.

This was my question a few days ago when we were discussing CODIS, whether BKs DNA has already been entered. He hasn't been convicted therefore I didn't think it was possible. But then (iirc) @Cool Cats said yes, they've already submitted it.

In the LISK thread someone mentioned that RHs' DNA hasn't been entered because he has not been convicted. Does this kind of thing vary from state to state?

 

[iamshadow21]

This was my question a few days ago when we were discussing CODIS, whether BKs DNA has already been entered. He hasn't been convicted therefore I didn't think it was possible. But then (iirc) @Cool Cats said yes, they've already submitted it.

In the LISK thread someone mentioned that RHs' DNA hasn't been entered because he has not been convicted. Does this kind of thing vary from state to state?

It does. New York is a post conviction state.

 

[Nattyj1991]

This was my question a few days ago when we were discussing CODIS, whether BKs DNA has already been entered. He hasn't been convicted therefore I didn't think it was possible. But then (iirc) @Cool Cats said yes, they've already submitted it.

In the LISK thread someone mentioned that RHs' DNA hasn't been entered because he has not been convicted. Does this kind of thing vary from state to state?

Yes according to his post, it is up to the state when the info gets submitted to CODIS.

 

[Megnut]

This was my question a few days ago when we were discussing CODIS, whether BKs DNA has already been entered. He hasn't been convicted therefore I didn't think it was possible. But then (iirc) @Cool Cats said yes, they've already submitted it.

In the LISK thread someone mentioned that RHs' DNA hasn't been entered because he has not been convicted. Does this kind of thing vary from state to state?

Perhaps there's a difference with a distinction.

Surely the recovered DNA from the sheath was run through CODIS but not entered, and after LE swabbed BK for DNA, it was not entered into CODIS because he hasn't been convicted of any crime.

So... IMO, theoretically, assuming BK is in fact guilty and supposing he commit another murder today, for which his DNA was sent to CODIS, there would be no hit.

If this is the case, then IMO it's possible that BK is guilty of other crimes for which he has not been convicted, ergo no DNA on file with CODIS.

My conclusion: the anonymous DNA from the sheath was put through CODIS without match, it was not entered into CODIS nor later when BK's DNA was collected, and won't be entered into CODIS, until or unless he's convicted of a felony.

JMO

 

[whiterhino]

Perhaps there's a difference with a distinction.

Surely the recovered DNA from the sheath was run through CODIS but not entered, and after LE swabbed BK for DNA, it was not entered into CODIS because he hasn't been convicted of any crime.

So... IMO, theoretically, assuming BK is in fact guilty and supposing he commit another murder today, for which his DNA was sent to CODIS, there would be no hit.

If this is the case, then IMO it's possible that BK is guilty of other crimes for which he has not been convicted, ergo no DNA on file with CODIS.

My conclusion: the anonymous DNA from the sheath was put through CODIS without match, it was not entered into CODIS nor later when BK's DNA was collected, and won't be entered into CODIS, until or unless he's convicted of a felony.

JMO

There are similar comments/questions in the LISK thread.

RBBM others have said that it was already entered? Idk anything about this subject and I don't even know the proper terminology. I assumed a persons DNA wouldn't be input for future comparison until/unless there is a conviction.

 

[Megnut]

There are similar comments/questions in the LISK thread.

RBBM others have said that it was already entered? Idk anything about this subject and I don't even know the proper terminology. I assumed a persons DNA wouldn't be input for future comparison until/unless there is a conviction.

Yes, and I think that's the tangle. His DNA was run through CODIS in search of a match (before LE knew whose DNA it was) but since BK had never been convicted of any felonies (as an adult at least), no match was made. Regardless, his DNA was not entered into CODIS at that time.

I doubt CODIS contains a graveyard of anonymous, unmatched DNA profiles. It's a database of (known) convicted felons (and in some states charged/arrested individuals). DNA with names.

JMO

 

[whiterhino]

Yes, and I think that's the tangle. His DNA was run through CODIS in search of a match (before LE knew whose DNA it was) but since BK had never been convicted of any felonies (as an adult at least), no match was made. Regardless, his DNA was not entered into CODIS at that time.

I doubt CODIS contains a graveyard of anonymous, unmatched DNA profiles. It's a database of (known) convicted felons (and in some states charged/arrested individuals). DNA with names.

JMO

Not sure what you mean? I don't think anyone is disputing this afaIk. CODIS was originally for tracking sex offenders.

 

[Balthazar]

This was my question a few days ago when we were discussing CODIS, whether BKs DNA has already been entered. He hasn't been convicted therefore I didn't think it was possible. But then (iirc) @Cool Cats said yes, they've already submitted it.

In the LISK thread someone mentioned that RHs' DNA hasn't been entered because he has not been convicted. Does this kind of thing vary from state to state?

Yes, each state has their own rules and procedures on this. In Texas, for example, DNA is collected from all persons charged with a felony, immediately after fingerprinting on intake into jail or prison. (See HB 3956). Statewide CODIS DNA Database Program Overview | Department of Public Safety.

These rules and procedures also contain procedures for having DNA removed from CODIS if the defendant is found not guilty or the case is dismissed. In Idaho, the defendant who has been found not guilty must initiate the process to remove his/her DNA from CODIS whereas in Texas, the court is required to make this request immediately after the defendant is found not guilty or the case is dismissed.

 

[Cool Cats]

This was my question a few days ago when we were discussing CODIS, whether BKs DNA has already been entered. He hasn't been convicted therefore I didn't think it was possible. But then (iirc) @Cool Cats said yes, they've already submitted it.

In the LISK thread someone mentioned that RHs' DNA hasn't been entered because he has not been convicted. Does this kind of thing vary from state to state?

CODIS is used in various ways.

LE has DNA from a crime scene and they do not have a name to go with it so it goes into CODIS.

A missing person's remains have been found and they do not have a name to go with it so it goes into CODIS.

After a conviction, according to Federal law, inmate's DNA is entered into CODIS to see if the inmate's DNA matches any other DNA from unsolved crimes.

RH's DNA will be put in after conviction - according to Federal law - to see if his DNA matches any other DNA from previous crimes.

BK's DNA was put into CODIS when they ran his unknown DNA from the King Rd crime scene to identify the King Rd DNA.

When BK is convicted his DNA will go into the CODIS system to check to see if BK is attatched to any other DNA from unsolved crime scenes.

BK's DNA was put into CODIS for one reason - to identify unknown King Rd. crime scene DNA. But, BK's DNA will be used for a different reason after he is convicted - CODIS will run it to see if BK's DNA matches any other unknown crime scene DNA.

Codis now has BK's DNA legally, they do not need it again. But, it is after he is convicted that they can start running it to see if his DNA turns up a match to any other unknown DNA at crime scenes.

Gilgo Beach Murders: Here's why suspect Rex Heuermann's DNA has not been put into CODIS

While DNA evidence was crucial in connecting Rex Heuermann to the heinous crimes, the suspect's DNA could not be entered into the database

meaww.com

The FBI’s Combined DNA Index System (CODIS) Hits Major Milestone​

https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/the-fbis-combined-dna-index-system-codis-hits-major-milestone

CODIS and NDIS Fact Sheet | Federal Bureau of Investigation

A compilation of frequently-asked questions about the Combined DNA Index System (CODIS) and the National DNA Index System (NDIS).

www.fbi.gov

 

[whiterhino]

FWIW I have a basic understanding of what CODIS is but thank you for taking the time to outline. I also found this link useful (lol): Combined DNA Index System - Wikipedia

The question I originally asked/answered was that AFAIK BKs DNA will not be submitted to CODIS until/unless he is convicted.

According to others, this is not the case due to the fact that each state handles things differently (?). I was under the impression that CODIS includes DNA exemplars from all states. I'm confused about the "laws varying from state-to-state" piece.

This is the reply I am referring to: (asked by @Megnut & bbm) I was confused as you seemed to answer "yes" initially but I may have misread. Apologies if so...

Quote
(My question, however, stands. Has BK's DNA been entered into CODIS?)

Yes.

The skin cells found on the sheath snap were found to contain a person's DNA profile but the problem was that LE didn't know the person's name.

So, as most LE departments do, they ran it though CODIS hoping to find a match.
No match...but whose DNA is this?

Next step was to get a private lab specializing in Genetic Geneology to search family trees and build DNA profiles to find relatives who matched some of the sheath DNA.

BK's relatives matched some of the sheath DNA.

To narrow it down to BK, who they suspected, investigators were able to get his dad's DNA from the trash. This trash DNA along with the sheath DNA showed the father-son connection.

Lastly, the cheek swab of BK after his arrest matched the DNA on the sheath. The DNA was 5.37 octillion times more likely to be Kohberger's than a random person from the general population.

Genetic genealogy used to link suspect in Idaho slayings to crime scene, prosecutors say

DNA found on a knife sheath was at least 5.37 octillion times more likely to be Kohberger’s than that of an unrelated member of the public, prosecutors said in a court filing last week.

www.nbcnews.com

CODIS is used in various ways.

LE has DNA from a crime scene and they do not have a name to go with it so it goes into CODIS.

A missing person's remains have been found and they do not have a name to go with it so it goes into CODIS.

After a conviction, according to Federal law, inmate's DNA is entered into CODIS to see if the inmate's DNA matches any other DNA from unsolved crimes.

RH's DNA will be put in after conviction - according to Federal law - to see if his DNA matches any other DNA from previous crimes.

BK's DNA was put into CODIS when they ran his unknown DNA from the King Rd crime scene to identify the King Rd DNA.

When BK is convicted his DNA will go into the CODIS system to check to see if BK is attatched to any other DNA from unsolved crime scenes.

BK's DNA was put into CODIS for one reason - to identify unknown King Rd. crime scene DNA. But, BK's DNA will be used for a different reason after he is convicted - CODIS will run it to see if BK's DNA matches any other unknown crime scene DNA.

Codis now has BK's DNA legally, they do not need it again. But, it is after he is convicted that they can start running it to see if his DNA turns up a match to any other unknown DNA at crime scenes.

Gilgo Beach Murders: Here's why suspect Rex Heuermann's DNA has not been put into CODIS

While DNA evidence was crucial in connecting Rex Heuermann to the heinous crimes, the suspect's DNA could not be entered into the database

meaww.com

The FBI’s Combined DNA Index System (CODIS) Hits Major Milestone​

https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/the-fbis-combined-dna-index-system-codis-hits-major-milestone

CODIS and NDIS Fact Sheet | Federal Bureau of Investigation

A compilation of frequently-asked questions about the Combined DNA Index System (CODIS) and the National DNA Index System (NDIS).

www.fbi.gov

 

[schooling]

FWIW I have a basic understanding of what CODIS is but thank you for taking the time to outline. I also found this link useful (lol): Combined DNA Index System - Wikipedia

The question I originally asked/answered was that AFAIK BKs DNA will not be submitted to CODIS until/unless he is convicted.

According to others, this is not the case due to the fact that each state handles things differently (?). I was under the impression that CODIS includes DNA exemplars from all states. I'm confused about the "laws varying from state-to-state" piece.

This is the reply I am referring to: (asked by @Megnut & bbm) I was confused as you seemed to answer "yes" initially but I may have misread. Apologies if so...

I think theirs noise in the conversation that’s causing confusion.

There’s a conflation (not by everyone) of the unknown suspects DNA (aka BKs) being submitted to CODIS after the murders awaiting a match vs BK the known social security number owning entity’s DNA being submitted now as a suspect submission vs later if/when convicted.

I think Cool Cat’s answer, IMO as a totally non expert, is the most correct. BKs DNA was submitted to CODIS as an unknown and sat around waiting for a match. They got one. IMO that unknown is still not sitting around in CODIS nor is it put into the felon pool because of that match. Again, JMO.

That’s a totally distinct issue from BK the convicted being submitted to CODIS as a felon. MOO

They are often both interchangeably being referred to as BKs DNA.

MOO

 

[Cool Cats]

FWIW I have a basic understanding of what CODIS is but thank you for taking the time to outline. I also found this link useful (lol): Combined DNA Index System - Wikipedia

The question I originally asked/answered was that AFAIK BKs DNA will not be submitted to CODIS until/unless he is convicted.

According to others, this is not the case due to the fact that each state handles things differently (?). I was under the impression that CODIS includes DNA exemplars from all states. I'm confused about the "laws varying from state-to-state" piece.

This is the reply I am referring to: (asked by @Megnut & bbm) I was confused as you seemed to answer "yes" initially but I may have misread. Apologies if so...

How it looks to me...

It is %100 fact that BK's DNA has already been run through CODIS.....There could be a "red tape" administrative rule that says afer conviction BK's DNA must be RESUBMITTED to CODIS because his DNA will be run for a different type of search.

CODIS has the knife sheath DNA in their system already which is BK's DNA and Federal law says all states must submit a convicted felon's DNA to CODIS to run it against unsolved crimes.

All states including Idaho.

Whether LE must submit BK's DNA a second time doesn't matter, the point is that after BK is convicted LE will run his DNA against unsolved cases and if this is posive BK could end up being indicted for a whole other crime.

 

[Cool Cats]

How it looks to me...

It is %100 fact that BK's DNA has already been run through CODIS.....There could be a "red tape" administrative rule that says afer conviction BK's DNA must be RESUBMITTED to CODIS because his DNA will be run for a different type of search.

CODIS has the knife sheath DNA in their system already which is BK's DNA and Federal law says all states must submit a convicted felon's DNA to CODIS to run it against unsolved crimes.

All states including Idaho.

Whether LE must submit BK's DNA a second time doesn't matter, the point is that after BK is convicted LE will run his DNA against unsolved cases and if this is posive BK could end up being indicted for a whole other crime.

Correction -

Federal law says State's must enter convicted felon's DNA into CODIS and CODIS will see if there are any matches to unknown DNA found at crime scenes but I believe that CODIS does not have to wait until BK is convicted to run his DNA against unknown crime scene DNA.

CODIS already did this.....I believe they did this already because it is standard procedure for CODIS to run DNA through all their systems as soon as submitted.

No law tells CODIS when to run their DNA, just that LE must submit it.

2 Cents

 

[Boxer]

States that collect DNA at arrest.
Idaho is not one.

Figure 1. States That Have Enacted Arrestee DNA Collection Laws in the United States

From the article "Collecting DNA From Arrestees: Implementation Lessons," June 14, 2012. Map charting which states have enabled arrestee DNA collection laws within the United States. Collection Criteria States that require a judicial determination of probable cause, warrant, formal indictment...

nij.ojp.gov

 

[katydid23]

But the sheath found at the crime hasn't been confirmed to be the sheath to the murder weapon because in the search warrant for Bryan's apartment LE listed that they were looking for a sheath.

But that sheath was found underneath one of the murdered students. So it was obviously left by the killer. whether the murder weapon was in that sheath, we don't know yet. But it was found underneath a dead body. That is pretty incriminating.