4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #95

[Cindizzi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1829321093389390005

 

[Seattle1]

But why is this issue of trial location dragging soooo much?

I could swear it was resolved last year.
I remember reading about it when I was following this thread.

I stopped now.

I'm only waiting for trial.

From MSM dated Feb 18, 2023 -- the change was for Daybell, not BK.

Either party, the prosecution or the defense, could file a motion for a change of venue. If granted, the change would transfer the trial to a county away from Moscow, the roughly 26,000-population college town in North Idaho that’s drawn unrelenting attention from national news outlets and true crime enthusiasts in the months since the four students’ deaths.

WHY MOVE THE TRIAL? There are several arguments to be made for changing the venue, but chief among them is the effect of pretrial publicity on potential jurors, according to Fremont County Prosecuting Attorney Lindsey Blake.

[...]

Chad Daybell’s lawyer requested a change of venue for the trial, arguing that substantial media attention would affect the court’s ability to find a fair and unbiased jury in Fremont County in East Idaho. A judge granted the request, moving the trial to the Ada County Courthouse in Boise. While the case is still under Fremont County’s jurisdiction, the jurors will be from Ada County. The decision to move a trial is up to the judge, Blake said. Most often, she added, it’s at the request of the defense, not the prosecution.

Read more at: https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article272187983.html#storylink=cpy
_____________________________

The statue for Idaho (linked below) does not define and/or illustrate the test that must be met by the defense but instead leaves the decision to grant or deny the Motion to the Court.

While I've often heard that a Change of Venue Motion is rarely granted, this wasn't the case in Colorado for Barry Morphew. I recall the defense simply hired a consultant who sent out a survey to the residents & tallied the results, and at the Motions hearing, the defense produced multiple notebooks of the news clippings where they cited pretrial publicity and the Motion for Change of Venue was granted, end of story. IMO, this quad-murder case has had equal if not more publicity in spite of the gag order.

At least this Judge is going to take some time to measure the evidence and opposition.

Rule 21 - Transfer for Trial, Idaho R. Crim. P. 21 | Casetext Search + Citator

Read Rule 21 - Transfer for Trial, Idaho R. Crim. P. 21, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal database

casetext.com

I.C.R. 21. Transfer for Trial | Supreme Court

isc.idaho.gov

 

[sunspun]

It does make sense he chose to commit murders in a DP state if you understand that he thought he was such a brilliant criminal investigator that he could fool everyone. He had to choose the grad school that accepted him and the fact he was in a DP state probably made it a more exciting challenge for him.

But that's the interesting thing about it, is that he was not in a DP state. He willfully travelled INTO a DP state from a non-DP state to commit the crime - allegedly.

He was living and going to school in Washington, a state w/no DP. The murders were committed in Idaho, which has the DP.

I think most people would presume that if any crime were DP-eligible, this one certainly is. I think BK knew this and may have purposefully committed the crime in a state with the DP. He may have thought he could get away with it, but if by some chance he didn't, he'd expect to be sentenced to death. If he hadn't done this, I wouldn't be surprised if he had suicidal plans instead. He may have seen this as a way to get that accomplished. All MOO.

 

[iamshadow21]

But that's the interesting thing about it, is that he was not in a DP state. He willfully travelled INTO a DP state from a non-DP state to commit the crime - allegedly.

He was living and going to school in Washington, a state w/no DP. The murders were committed in Idaho, which has the DP.

I think most people would presume that if any crime were DP-eligible, this one certainly is. I think BK knew this and may have purposefully committed the crime in a state with the DP. He may have thought he could get away with it, but if by some chance he didn't, he'd expect to be sentenced to death. If he hadn't done this, I wouldn't be surprised if he had suicidal plans instead. He may have seen this as a way to get that accomplished. All MOO.

Bundy escaped from a state that had just done away with the death penalty to Florida, where it was very much still on the cards. And I don't think he had a death wish. I think he just went the farthest south and east he could go from where he was without leaving the mainland, and chose a college town so that there was a generous amount of his preferred prey. I don't think he had any thought besides that he was so clever for having escaped and that he was never going to get caught again.

I genuinely think BK had the same kind of blind spot. He was so clever! He had a degree in crime stuff! The cops would never work it out! They'd never think to look over the border! He turned his phone off! He had no social, school or work connection to the victims! Such a clever clogs. And yet he makes all the same mistakes that some yob with a ninth grade education makes, so predictable that you could do an ID drinking game of them and end up blitzed after only three programs.

Hubris.

MOO

 

[Betty P]

Bundy escaped from a state that had just done away with the death penalty to Florida, where it was very much still on the cards. And I don't think he had a death wish. I think he just went the farthest south and east he could go from where he was without leaving the mainland, and chose a college town so that there was a generous amount of his preferred prey. I don't think he had any thought besides that he was so clever for having escaped and that he was never going to get caught again.

I genuinely think BK had the same kind of blind spot. He was so clever! He had a degree in crime stuff! The cops would never work it out! They'd never think to look over the border! He turned his phone off! He had no social, school or work connection to the victims! Such a clever clogs. And yet he makes all the same mistakes that some yob with a ninth grade education makes, so predictable that you could do an ID drinking game of them and end up blitzed after only three programs.

Hubris.

MOO

Good point. It was probably a combination of hubris and a decline in his ability to cope with his mental illness. Being in a new, unfamiliar place, far away from his family, I had the impression he was under pressure. Wasn’t he also proctoring or teaching a class? That’s difficult for someone with an antisocial personality.

JMO, he was trying to accomplish his career goals and finding it was much more difficult than he anticipated. The idea of Idaho being a DP state wasn’t registering as a priority to him. Perhaps he was more focused on it being some distance away from Pullman and in a different jurisdiction.

If he’s convicted, it will be interesting to learn what triggers lead him to commit these murders.

 

[Betty P]

Various news articles:

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article291638295.html

Idaho judge halts Bryan Kohberger hearing after defense shows social media posts

The judge overseeing the case in which Kohberger stands accused of killing four University of Idaho students paused a hearing on the capital murder trial’s potential change of venue Thursday.

www.seattletimes.com

Bryan Kohberger hearing halted as defense shows social media posts: Live

Attorneys for Bryan Kohberger argue his murder trial should be relocated because potential jurors voiced concerns that the public would ‘burn the courthouse down’ if he is acquitted of murder charges

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Curiousobserver]

Pardon my ignorance.

Just curious but why was he a fugitive at that point? If he was a fugitive why didn't they just arrest him on either of the two traffic stops in Indiana on his way to PA?

The definition of a fugitive is a person who has escaped from a place or is in hiding, especially to avoid arrest or persecution.

Let's say LE did indeed believe he was 'on the run' then again why didn't they just arrest him either of the two times they pulled him over on his way to PA?

Another question is why didn't they just bring BK in for questioning when he was still in Idaho and ask him for a DNA sample then?

Why follow him across country?

What an incredible risk they took. What if he and his father had discussed an escape plan and he simply slipped out of that car at some point un-noticed with a duffle full of supplies.

It seemed reckless then and now even in hindsight.

 

[NCWatcher]

What an incredible risk they took. What if he and his father had discussed an escape plan and he simply slipped out of that car at some point un-noticed with a duffle full of supplies.

It seemed reckless then and now even in hindsight.

Definitely a risk. It was hardly unusual he left campus during the winter break. LE should have anticipated he might but choosing to let him go if he could be arrested was risky (IF that's what happened to make it a fugitive situation.) And IF (and it is an if too) BK did ask about other arrests, it would make sense he might wonder about his dad driving back with him and about both parents since he was staying in their house. But I think the helpers had to know he was a fugitive to be legally aiding and abetting and it seems even BK didn't know.
MOO

 

[CKS]

What an incredible risk they took. What if he and his father had discussed an escape plan and he simply slipped out of that car at some point un-noticed with a duffle full of supplies.

It seemed reckless then and now even in hindsight.

It doesn't make any sense imo.

Also, from the PA and ID arrest warrant timestamps is sure does appear that PA got the fugitive warrant before Idaho even issued the arrest warrant? Is that how it works normally?

 

[Curiousobserver]

It doesn't make any sense imo.

Also, from the PA and ID arrest warrant timestamps is sure does appear that PA got the fugitive warrant before Idaho even issued the arrest warrant? Is that how it works normally?

This part of the story just never has made any sense. I wonder if there was a sequencing issue they were trying to engineer. For example if they let him leave without tipping him off and arrest him en-route, or in PA, then he doesn't have an opportunity to hide or destroy evidence at his apartment or car after they question him.

It makes you wonder if at that point they still had some reason to think he might not be the right person, in direct contradiction to the PCA language.

 

[Boxer]

Multiple agencies.
He looked good for the charges but he was still under inveatigation.

 

[Cool Cats]

Various news articles:

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article291638295.html

Idaho judge halts Bryan Kohberger hearing after defense shows social media posts

The judge overseeing the case in which Kohberger stands accused of killing four University of Idaho students paused a hearing on the capital murder trial’s potential change of venue Thursday.

www.seattletimes.com

Bryan Kohberger hearing halted as defense shows social media posts: Live

Attorneys for Bryan Kohberger argue his murder trial should be relocated because potential jurors voiced concerns that the public would ‘burn the courthouse down’ if he is acquitted of murder charges

www.independent.co.uk

Bryan Kohberger’s defense says trial needs to be moved because of Idaho town’s vicious ‘mob mentality’​

Kohberger’s defense says trial needs a new venue because of town’s ‘mob mentality’

Kohberger is set to stand trial in 2025 for the slayings of four University of Idaho students in November 2022

www.independent.co.uk

The mob mentality within the community is the exact reason why the trial should be moved out of Latah County, the defense attorneys stated in the filing. Kohberger’s attorneys cited inflammatory and threatening remarks.​

Residents of the county who were surveyed by the defense said there would be riots and other violent repercussions if Kohberger was found not guilty.

One resident said that “there would likely be a riot and he wouldn’t last long, because someone would do the good ole’ boy justice,” according to the filing.

Another said “they’d burn the courthouse down” and that “outrage would be a mild description.”

While one other warned that residents “would probably find him and kill him.”

 

[Cool Cats]

Fugitive From Justice Warrant is issued when the arrested person needs to be extradited to another state. Standard Protocol in Pennsylvania

Extradition and Pennsylvania | PA Legal Blog

When a person in Pennsylvania is arrested and detained on behalf of another state, the process is called extradition.

www.manchesterandassociates.com

When a person in Pennsylvania is arrested and detained on behalf of another state, the process is called extradition. It is important for individuals and families to understand this often daunting and potentially confusing process.

This process could find an individual arrested in Pennsylvania as a “fugitive from justice. " Two Federal laws control extradition from one state to another: The Federal Fugitive Act, 18 U.S.C.A. § 3182; and the Uniform Criminal Extradition Act, 42 Pa.C.S.A. § 9121 et. seq.

When an individual is arrested as a fugitive from justice, there are specific rules that must be followed by Pennsylvania and the demanding state. The outcome is that the fugitive is either extradited to the demanding state, or released from Pennsylvania custody.​

After an individual is retained on a fugitive warrant, the law requires that they be brought in front of a judge as soon as possible. There is then a hearing to tell the individual what they are charged with, to determine if the person arrested is actually the person charged, and to set bail if appropriate.​

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Interested to learn if defense is receptive to empanelling a jury from outside of Latah County and bringing them to Moscow for the duration of the trial. Can't see why they would object to that, other than wanting to inflict frustration and inconvenience on the victim's families with the goal of making a plea deal more likely.

Because it's incredibly inconvenient for the jury and there's no likely way to prevent bias unless they're sequestered if they were in Moscow. We have to remember that trials are for the alleged criminal, not for the victims. I feel for the victims families, but that is not a reason to deny change of venue.

MOO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Jury of one's peers. Either jurors can set their bias and exposure aside or they can't.

I don't think you move a trial to a place where there's no exposure or less exposure. You seek jurors who can be impartial.

SBMFF.

That's not how human behavior works.

MOO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Sigh.

Solid tutorial on anatomy of a juror's mind.

Truly it's not possible to remove all bias, conscious and subconscious, but it's the system we use.

That's exactly the defense's point.

Boy, they're going all out to get the trial moved. But so far, I'm not hearing anything unique to this case and the challenge of juror bias that isn't true in any high publicity trial.

Each high publicity trial has different characteristics, but many nationally known trials that take place in small towns are moved.

Expert: I think it would be hard for anyone in this community to be on the jury.

Not exactly empirical.

Her recommendation: move the trial as far away as possible.

JMO

I think the research and the facts of what we know about bias and human behavior backs up the point quite well.

MOO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

But why is that different than any other high profile case that gets media attention?

It's not different than "any other." It's only different than some of them, because of how small the community of Moscow is and who the victims were. When the university makes up the majority of the population AND the employment in town and likely 99% of those people were affected by the tragedy, that really cuts into your jury pool.

MOO

 

[Cool Cats]

It's not different than "any other." It's only different than some of them, because of how small the community of Moscow is and who the victims were. When the university makes up the majority of the population AND the employment in town and likely 99% of those people were affected by the tragedy, that really cuts into your jury pool.

MOO

Prosecutor Thompson did argue in January that a shift to Lewis County, with a population of about 3,500 people and 2,200 active voters, could be a potential fit if Judge felt a change of venue was needed, the Idaho Statesman reported.

However, moving the trial almost 300 miles south to Boise is not convenient, the filing notes. Because of that, prosecutors wrote, “(The) defendant’s motion should be denied.”

They also wrote Idaho law would dictate seating a jury from a nearby county — not one on the other side of the state.

MSN

Idaho College Murders: Prosecutors Deliver Major Blow to Bryan Kohberger Defense Ahead of Quadruple Homicide Trial​

 

[gremlin444]

That's exactly the defense's point.



Each high publicity trial has different characteristics, but many nationally known trials that take place in small towns are moved.

Interestingly enough, the trial of Richard Allen for the murder of young Abby and Libby in Delphi, Indiana is staying local. The jurors are being selected from another and going through voir dire there, then will be transported and sequestered in Allen's home county.

 

[Arkay]

SBMFF.

That's not how human behavior works.

MOO

Alas, we can only seat humans on a jury, so it will never be perfect but must suffice.

IMO the Constitutional jury procedure does its best. Voir dire, peremptory challenges, and let the judge decide about change of venue.

I’m not in favor of changing the venue, but it’s not my call so I’ll accept what I must.

JMO