From what I understand from Motion For Protective Order re IGG, when FBI took over the IGG from Othram they independently carried out IGG using the SNP profile developed by Othram using additional companies. I may not be wording that right. It's specified in MOT for protective order but also might be covered in summary form in judge order ( Oct 2023) which I posted not long ago. Moo
4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #96
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arielilane
Justice for Liz Barraza
Latest on the Bryan Kohberger change of venue situation -- and victims family reaction and frustration with the prosecution -- in this episode of Entin Across America:
schooling
I Have Opinions, Too
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No offense to him. But every time I've watched a live stream or recaps of hearings he looks like he has the weight of the world on his shoulders.
A judge's job is to get the case to a fair verdict and leaving no room for any appeals that result from his/her/they/them's opinion/decisions in the courtroom. There's a heaviness there in his face every time he has to make an important decision.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if he opted out.
JMO.
Yeah, he's indicated he would prefer not to continue as judge.. In all events, I'm sure he nominated his preference in good faith and I respect it. I'm sure the Supreme Court will give some weight to his preference. After all, why would they insist on a judge continuing when he has indicated he would prefer not to? I'd predict they'll nominate another judge if they can find one who's available. If not I guess it's possible JJJ may be ordered to stay on the case. Infact my personal hope would be that they keep JJJ on the case if nominating a new judge would mean delaying the trial for weeks or months because he/she cannot clear their calendar for next June. Moo
I don't think anyone would know except JJJ.
Anyone know when JJJ stopped making decisions on this case? The answer to that might offer some insight.
JMO.
RBBMAgree.
Footnote: no likelihood ratio was reported to the public. Probability and likelihood ratios assume that no error occurred in the determination of the dna profile. MOO
BBM
Exactly.
The D was investigating the entire DNA evidence, from collection to result from the IGG. MOO
Both Mercer and Larkin testified to different potions of the DNA evidence: 5/23/24
39:00
Talks about needing the IGG details so that an expert can compare the SNP developed to the STR markers and determine reliability of the STR. Mentions a few examples of what the comparison can tell about the reliability of the STR.
Just recalling that there were 2 SNP profiles. MOO
Larkin at the bottom of her affidavit listing what discovery is requested:
b. how a DNA sample was handled from the time of collection through its forensic genetic genealogy testing;
The P wanted the following + etc. protected: 6/16/2023
o 0 The raw data related to the SNP profile and the underlying laboratory documentation related to the development of the profile, such as chain of custody forms, laboratory standard operating procedures, analyst notes, etc.
IMO it appears that the D was still investigating both the STR and IGG, at least at the time of this hearing (May).
JMO
Attachments area
Preview YouTube video Bryan Kohberger’s Defense Team Calls Lawyer with DNA Expertise to the Stand
Bryan Kohberger’s Defense Team Calls Lawyer with DNA Expertise to the Stand
"Both Mercer and Larkin testified to different portions of the DNA evidence: 5/23/24
39:00
Talks about needing the IGG details..." SBMFF
Doesn't your post speak to a hearing in 2023? Not 2024? I think 18th Aug re MTC 3? The attached footage from Law And Crime is dated a year ago I think.
Just for the sake of clarity and to lessen confusion as I realise wrong date is probably a typo; because the poster you're responding to is claiming;
"The main point is that the prosecution has not turned over the work from either lab on the how they came to the conclusion that it is BK's DNA.";
Ie Leaving aside the factual basis, OP is claiming this is the state of affairs as of now, ie Sept 2024. I Just think it's important to contextualise with accurate timeline because a lot has gone on discovery wise since Aug 2023. Moo
He hasn't stopped making decisions on this case. He just filed an order re COV. He has stated a pref not to be sitting judge come trial date next June in new location ( Boise I believe ). Afaik up until the trial JJJ stays as judge. Moving trial location and possibly having Supreme Court nominate a diff judge for trial in that location isn't a reset. JJJ is the judge until trial moo
girlhasnoname
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JMO, but I think JJJ was completely overwhelmed by this case. AT and Company and their Motions Machine, the National attention it is receiving, and maybe he also has concerns for his safety and privacy.
It would be a hard case to preside over for any Judge due to the sheer emotional and violent nature of the crime, especially with a COV. If his heart isn't in it 100%, appointing a Special Judge is the right move.
Although there will never be a cooler name than Judge John Judge.
MOO
Nila Aella
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Thank you Jepop for correcting me!
Sorry for the confusion, my mistake on multiple date
I linked Mercer's testimony from MTC hearing to show what he said regarding IGG and STR. 3rd Motion to compel 8/18/2023.
Mercer declaration
10/25/23 Order Regarding IGG (not January)
2/29/24 Amended IGG order
I agree! a lot has gone on since then.
There was a MTC hearing 5/30/24 during which the D wanted their investigators
to be allowed to review the IGG materials.
4/26/24 Motion to allow investigators to review IGG
4/29/24 Motion to unseal IGG
4/29/24 Notice of hearing
5/14/24 Resetting hearing: IGG portion of Motion to compel - closed
4) Based on the agreement ofthe parties, the hearing scheduled for May 16, 2024, at 3:00 p.m. for the IGG portion of Defendant's 5th motion to compel is WACATED and re-set for May 30, 2024, at 1:30 p.m. This portion of the hearing will include arguments on Defendant's Motion to Allow Defense Investigators to Review IGG Materials and Defendant's Motion to Unseal Parts of IGG Materials. At this juncture, the hearing will be sealed as stipulated by the parties. In the event that the parties determine that the hearing can be open to the public, the parties must file a stipulation to open the hearing no later than May 24, 2024, to provide adequate notice to the victims' families.
5/23/24 Notice for witnesses to appear via zoom
Order 6/7/2024
The 5th Motion to Compel hearing (IGG) was closed and the order is not public (besides the above order on allowing investigators to review IGG materials).
IMO the D was still investigating in May 2024.
More requests for discovery (16/17) and the P deadline for discovery followed.
JMO
maskedwoman
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If the police aren't talking, I can't imagine that JJJ would say a single word in public. However, one possibility is that he is giving the ISC the chance to decide they want someone with more capital murder and death penalty experience to helm this trial. Just a thought.
GRT
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They don't seem to care for him at all. I ran across this morning...
"The family is incredibly disappointed in the Judge’s ruling granting the change of venue. The only good thing about this decision is it will be Judge Judge’s last decision in this case, " the Goncalves family said.
Idaho murder victim family speaks on Kohberger venue change
SPOKANE, Wash. - A judge granted Bryan Kohberger's request for a change of venue in the murder trial of four University of Idaho students, drawing a "disappointed" reaction from the
CoV Ruling. Kaylee's Parents' Stmts in Video, Sept 11.
Entin Across America, Law & Crime Network.
From transcript to ^ video on youtube, FATHER of Kaylee Goncalves.
1. Father at ~ 7:35
"when it just backfires you know it's
time to like put your foot down and say
okay the way you've been doing it isn't
working I'm not going to risk my
daughter's life over you know you guys
playing little games of not cross
examining and not you know not doing the
extra mile if the other side's going to
be working till the very end till an
hour left of the courtroom then you know
what you talk until the end and then we
do it again you know we don't give up we
don't quit we don't take the easy way
wrote out and I kind of felt like we're
being out hustled sometimes and you know
that that needs to end you know
especially once we get to trial time"
^ He said:
Playing little games? Being outhustled???
2. Father continues, ~ 7:55 (editting post to correct the timestamp):
"any family that goes
through some tragedy like this I highly
recommend you find somebody that you
trust that you that really knows the ins
and outs of that courtroom so we hit the
ground first and we said you know you
got to be more aggressive you guys have
to be more aggressive and they push back
at us and here we are two two months
away from from two years and they're
resetting so we were right we told them
they needed to be a little more
aggressive maybe a lot more aggressive
somewhere in the middle and um you know
here we are today and uh we're we were
right and but we can course correct we
can get this fixed we can get the right
guy in the right chair and we can go
from there and"
^ "We were right."
Is he saying that we (he, wife, and/or Shannon Grey) told prosecution to be more aggressive, and then the state complied w that? A bit confusing w the pronouns used.
3. Father continues, at 8:33:
"I totally have
belief in the Idaho Supreme Court I know
that they're going to pick somebody that
they trust somebody that they're already
going to be well known about his cases
and his work history so everything that
he puts down it's not going to be
questioned because they're not going to
pick somebody with questionable past so
that'll be the best."
^ ICR 21 provides governs procedure for these transfers. Is he saying he has confidence in the procedure? Or something else in a backhanded way?
IDK.
@arielilane Thanks for your post w link to interview
Entin Across America, Law & Crime Network.
From transcript to ^ video on youtube, FATHER of Kaylee Goncalves.
1. Father at ~ 7:35
"when it just backfires you know it's
time to like put your foot down and say
okay the way you've been doing it isn't
working I'm not going to risk my
daughter's life over you know you guys
playing little games of not cross
examining and not you know not doing the
extra mile if the other side's going to
be working till the very end till an
hour left of the courtroom then you know
what you talk until the end and then we
do it again you know we don't give up we
don't quit we don't take the easy way
wrote out and I kind of felt like we're
being out hustled sometimes and you know
that that needs to end you know
especially once we get to trial time"
^ He said:
Playing little games? Being outhustled???
2. Father continues, ~ 7:55 (editting post to correct the timestamp):
"any family that goes
through some tragedy like this I highly
recommend you find somebody that you
trust that you that really knows the ins
and outs of that courtroom so we hit the
ground first and we said you know you
got to be more aggressive you guys have
to be more aggressive and they push back
at us and here we are two two months
away from from two years and they're
resetting so we were right we told them
they needed to be a little more
aggressive maybe a lot more aggressive
somewhere in the middle and um you know
here we are today and uh we're we were
right and but we can course correct we
can get this fixed we can get the right
guy in the right chair and we can go
from there and"
^ "We were right."
Is he saying that we (he, wife, and/or Shannon Grey) told prosecution to be more aggressive, and then the state complied w that? A bit confusing w the pronouns used.
3. Father continues, at 8:33:
"I totally have
belief in the Idaho Supreme Court I know
that they're going to pick somebody that
they trust somebody that they're already
going to be well known about his cases
and his work history so everything that
he puts down it's not going to be
questioned because they're not going to
pick somebody with questionable past so
that'll be the best."
^ ICR 21 provides governs procedure for these transfers. Is he saying he has confidence in the procedure? Or something else in a backhanded way?
IDK.
Last edited:
@arielilane Thanks for your post w link to interview
Entin Across America, Law & Crime Network.
Transcript to ^ video, Shannon Gray (Grey?), ATTORNEY for Kaylee's parents.
8:54
Entin asks Q.
9:11 Shannon:
"well I mean as soon as they
changed the venue like they picked the
selection they tell us what county it's
going to be in I'm assuming that
assignment will include a judge who will
be presiding over that over the case
obviously all of the current decisions
that have been made on the case he can
either stick with or go back uh normally
they stick with the decisions that have
been made and then anything moving
forward so all these motions that have
been filed regarding the death penalty
and some of the other other aggravating
factors those will be decisions that
this judge makes on the case and so um
you know we're are we're hopeful that
that that will be either in Cai County
or NES Pierce um because they're closer
locations and uh there's competent
judges that that can handle these types
of cases and uh and just get this thing
going "
^ I think he is saying re ALL decisions JJJ issued in this case, that the judge-to-be-appointed "can either stick with or go back."
Or am I misunderstanding his stmt (entirely possible)?
Will new judge have authority to reconsider, to modify, to reverse all of JJJ's decisions, rulings, orders? A trial court reversing another trial court ruling?
IIRC one or two posters said w a CoV ordered for trial there's no "reset."
W a quick search, I did not find any specific relevant guidance (could have missed it).
www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbPAuwWJm84
Entin Across America, Law & Crime Network.
Transcript to ^ video, Shannon Gray (Grey?), ATTORNEY for Kaylee's parents.
8:54
Entin asks Q.
9:11 Shannon:
"well I mean as soon as they
changed the venue like they picked the
selection they tell us what county it's
going to be in I'm assuming that
assignment will include a judge who will
be presiding over that over the case
obviously all of the current decisions
that have been made on the case he can
either stick with or go back uh normally
they stick with the decisions that have
been made and then anything moving
forward so all these motions that have
been filed regarding the death penalty
and some of the other other aggravating
factors those will be decisions that
this judge makes on the case and so um
you know we're are we're hopeful that
that that will be either in Cai County
or NES Pierce um because they're closer
locations and uh there's competent
judges that that can handle these types
of cases and uh and just get this thing
going "
^ I think he is saying re ALL decisions JJJ issued in this case, that the judge-to-be-appointed "can either stick with or go back."
Or am I misunderstanding his stmt (entirely possible)?
Will new judge have authority to reconsider, to modify, to reverse all of JJJ's decisions, rulings, orders? A trial court reversing another trial court ruling?
IIRC one or two posters said w a CoV ordered for trial there's no "reset."
W a quick search, I did not find any specific relevant guidance (could have missed it).
www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbPAuwWJm84
Nila Aella
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I read this:
Prosecution didn't cross examine the witness and waited until the end to argue.
I agree. I thought it strange the P did not cross examine the witness nor did it provide any expert testimony in rebuttal. Only argument at the end of the hearing. Maybe it was a strategy? IDK.
JMO
I read this:
They wanted the prosecution to be more aggressive, P pushed back at them.
The G's felt they were right that the P needed to be more aggressive.
JMO
IMO he is saying he trusts the ISC to pick someone with a known history with DP cases.
Not really sure what he means by questionable past, just guessing it might be related to experience with DP cases? or could mean something else?
JMO
Nila Aella
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IMO he corrected himself by saying:
uh normally
they stick with the decisions that have
been made and then anything moving
forward so all these motions that have
been filed regarding the death penalty
and some of the other other aggravating
factors those will be decisions that
this judge makes on the case
and so um
you know we're are we're hopeful that
that that will be either in Cai County
or NES Pierce um because they're closer
locations and uh there's competent
judges
Seems to answer a question I had about who would be handling the DP motions.
IANAL but I think the case moves forward once it lands with a new Judge. The D can file new motions with the new Judge. I don't think they change what has been ordered already. JMO
Wondering also about the gag order, cameras in the courtroom, scheduling order.
JMO
Nila Aella
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This article has the order in it: I couldn't grab the entire page.
Seattle1
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Sep 11, 2024 #BryanKohberger #IdahoFour #LawAndCrime
Just this week, an Idaho judge ruled that the trial against Bryan Kohberger will be moved out of Moscow where he allegedly murdered four University of Idaho students. Judge John Judge cited potential prejudice, extensive media coverage, and the small nature of the community as reasons to push the trial out of Latah County. Kaylee Goncalves, Madison Mogen, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin were stabbed to death inside their off-campus apartment. Investigators say Kohberger’s DNA matches DNA found at the crime scene. NewsNation senior national correspondent Brian Entin speaks with Kaylee Goncalves’ parents about the latest developments on this episode of “Entin Across America.”
