4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #96

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Boxer said:
Saying someone "placed" false evidence at a murder scene is the contrived word, it crafted to minimize reaction, while getting it on record.

It is a huge accusation of the police, or a SODDi prep argument.
Nevertheless the most direct word for the act of "placing" false evidence is "planted."
BT just clarified her meaning so it did not slide by.
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I think this is accurate. She wouldn't want to come right out and accuse LE of planting evidence at this stage of the game, but she's laying the groundwork to bring it up later.

I have a hard time believing LE did that, but it's been done before; think Richard Anthony Jones.
 
snooptroop88 said:
Who on earth would think BK was just so important that LE or anyone else actually goes to these incredible lengths to frame BK for a quadruple homicide?
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RSBM for focus...

IF BK was framed--and I don't think he was--it wouldn't be because he was "important," but rather because the quadruple homicide was important.

Unfortunately, LE has been known to fudge or plant evidence, coerce confessions, etc., leading to wrong convictions. It does not happen often, but it does happen, which is why the Innocence Project has been able to free hundreds of wrongly convicted defendants.

A notable difference between BK and those found to be wrongly convicted is that BK is a white grad student. In contrast, the majority of those found to be wrongly convicted as a result of police misconduct are minorities who didn't have the means to hire a good defense.

Of course, I don't know, but if LE was going to frame a suspect, why frame one working on a doctorate in criminal law? Wouldn't it be simpler to frame the homeless addict under the bridge?

All MOO
 
GRT said:
Of course, I don't know, but if LE was going to frame a suspect, why frame one working on a doctorate in criminal law? Wouldn't it be simpler to frame the homeless addict under the bridge?

All MOO
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I would also think, if they were going to plant DNA evidence, that they'd plant more than the supposedly minuscule amount and they'd plant it in a more obvious spot than the tiny grooves of a knife sheath clasp--put it on the outside of sheath snap itself or on the doorknob of one of the girl's rooms (would be even better). Putting it on the house itself in locations connected to their rooms erases the whole "well, BK could have touched the sheath at a store and the killer bought it and used it" arguments. Put it on the inside of their bedroom door knobs and you reduce the "well, he could have gone to a party there and had a totally innocent reason for it to be in common areas."

I mean, if the police or any other party got BK's DNA in order to plant and frame him, you'd think they would have made sure to get a lot more DNA than what was present in the clasp grooves. And I'd love to know how they decided to frame BK from Pullman when they had all of the population of Moscow and surrounding area they could have chosen from. Even if they were limiting it to people with a white Elantra, surely there were people more local to Moscow who had one.

And if all they could get was that tiny amount (like, say from his car door handle), I again think they would prioritize putting it in more obvious and non portable place to be able to eradicate the arguments I stated above.

And if they framed him from the beginning, why did it take them until the end of December to arrest him?
 
GRT said:
I think this is accurate. She wouldn't want to come right out and accuse LE of planting evidence at this stage of the game, but she's laying the groundwork to bring it up later.

I have a hard time believing LE did that, but it's been done before; think Richard Anthony Jones.
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That case was eyewitness testimony contradicted by the defendents alibi. Basically the jury did not believe the people who testified he was at a birthday party at the time.
Subsequently it came to light that man that looked just like the dedendent was also linked to the address of the get away car, and the eyewitness could not tell them apart the conviction was tossed.

MOO this is far different than DNA being found on the snap closure of the carrying case of a murder weapon found beneath a victim.
 
Trebor5591 said:
In my opinion, BK is an extremely dangerous man. To me, he has the aura of a snake. Young and strong, he could do some serious damage in court if he decided he wanted to. If I were the judge, I would require he stay cuffed and shackled during the entire trial. JMO
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That’s why they have number of big strong armed deputies.
 
GRT said:
RSBM for focus...

IF BK was framed--and I don't think he was--it wouldn't be because he was "important," but rather because the quadruple homicide was important.

Unfortunately, LE has been known to fudge or plant evidence, coerce confessions, etc., leading to wrong convictions. It does not happen often, but it does happen, which is why the Innocence Project has been able to free hundreds of wrongly convicted defendants.

A notable difference between BK and those found to be wrongly convicted is that BK is a white grad student. In contrast, the majority of those found to be wrongly convicted as a result of police misconduct are minorities who didn't have the means to hire a good defense.

Of course, I don't know, but if LE was going to frame a suspect, why frame one working on a doctorate in criminal law? Wouldn't it be simpler to frame the homeless addict under the bridge?

All MOO
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Totally agreed with you on all of this, but JMO, someone who actually frames or plants evidence-- I don't think such an individual views the crime as important. If the person did, that person would be doing his or her utmost to deal accordingly with the actual perp. By actively trying to distort the truth and carry out a miscarriage of justice, that person shows complete disregard for the importance of the crime.

"Something else" is important to a person who'd do that, whether it be a job, public opinion, an election, malice towards the individual being framed, what have you. In this case if it were job or public opinion, or an election, totally agreed that those engaging in the framing could have found targets they'd probably view as more "appropriate" for their purposes than BK. That leads me to think BK's strategy would be the malice angle or "an axe to grind" against him personally. And that's why I say "important." MOO.
 
snooptroop88 said:
Totally agreed with you on all of this, but JMO, someone who actually frames or plants evidence-- I don't think such an individual views the crime as important. If the person did, that person would be doing his or her utmost to deal accordingly with the actual perp. By actively trying to distort the truth and carry out a miscarriage of justice, that person shows complete disregard for the importance of the crime.
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I don't understand. Very few people set out to frame someone by committing a crime. Rather they commit a crime, then frame someone else for it. The crime itself takes precedence, IMO. The reverse doesn't make sense to me.

snooptroop88 said:
"Something else" is important to a person who'd do that, whether it be a job, public opinion, an election, malice towards the individual being framed, what have you. In this case if it were job or public opinion, or an election, totally agreed that those engaging in the framing could have found targets they'd probably view as more "appropriate" for their purposes than BK. That leads me to think BK's strategy would be the malice angle or "an axe to grind" against him personally. And that's why I say "important." MOO.
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I disagree. I don't think BK was framed. If he's not guilty, it's due to other factors. But if they were looking to frame someone, he's actually the perfect candidate. New guy in town, weird, socially awkward loner, has a flipped circadian rhythm, does weird things and gives off weird vibes, doesn't seem to be liked or respected by his peers, his supervisors, or his students, and he's a criminal justice major who's written potentially incriminating things on the Internet for research.

I don't think you get a better candidate than that if you're looking to frame. You can paint a picture for motive (socially awkward guy wants the blonde goddess he'll never have or who rejected him), opportunity (those long night drives he takes), and know-how (thanks to CJ background). And once news breaks, then people come out of the woodwork with stories about "weird" he always was, which was fairly predictable.

You won't get any of that with the unknown homeless guy down the street.

MOO.
 
I definitely don't think BK was framed. But had he attempted to claim he'd been framed, my point is that he'd probably try to paint it as him being targeted for personal reasons/malice.
BeginnerSleuther said:
(snipped for focus) I don't understand. Very few people set out to frame someone by committing a crime. Rather they commit a crime, then frame someone else for it. The crime itself takes precedence, IMO. The reverse doesn't make sense to me.

MOO.
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I'm not suggesting that any imaginary person framed BK. But by the looks of things, this may be something that could be advanced by BK and his BK-driven defense team. Were someone theoretically trying to frame him, I also am not suggesting that such a person actually committed the crime. By "frame," I'm interpreting that to mean a person-- any person with the means to do so-- would be attempting to somehow displace guilt onto an innocent person. That can happen for a lot of reasons, but I agree, I sure don't think that's what is happening here.
 
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snooptroop88 said:
I definitely don't think BK was framed. But had he attempted to claim he'd been framed, my point is that he'd probably try to paint it as him being targeted for personal reasons/malice.

I'm not suggesting that any imaginary person framed BK. But by the looks of things, this may be something that could be advanced by BK and his BK-driven defense team. Were someone theoretically trying to frame him, I also am not suggesting that such a person actually committed the crime. By "frame," I'm interpreting that to mean a person-- any person with the means to do so-- would be attempting to somehow displace guilt onto an innocent person. That can happen for a lot of reasons, but I agree, I sure don't think that's what is happening here.
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IMO, if BK was framed, someone did a stellar job on that. Oscar Award level!

If he was framed that would be very hard to prove by the defense. The defense does not need to prove that he was framed, only instill enough reasonable doubt in the jury, to believe that he could have been framed. But that is still a very tall order and doesn't work 90+% of the time... And with all of the other circumstantial evidence they seem to have, I think it will fall flat on its face to the jury. JMO
 
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Justice101 said:
IMO, if BK was framed, someone did a stellar job on that. Oscar Award level!

If he was framed that would be very hard to prove by the defense. The defense does not need to prove that he was framed, only instill enough reasonable doubt in the jury, to believe that he could have been framed. But that is still a very tall order and doesn't work 90+% of the time... And with all of the other circumstantial evidence they seem to have, I think it will fall flat on its face to the jury. JMO
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He was not framed---
 
BeginnerSleuther said:
I'm not saying he WAS framed. I said that he'd be a great candidate TO frame because of his oddities. MOO
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I don't think he was framed, but you make a good point. He has a look and mannerisms that scream, murderer...creep...creepy murderer...
Personally, I think he did it, but I wouldn't be super surprised if he were found not guilty.

None of us know for sure, and even a conviction or acquittal isn't a 100% guarantee of guilt or innocence. Look at all the people who have been wrongly convicted and look at those who probably should have been convicted but weren't--cough, cough, OJ, Casey Anthony...

We, as a society, do the best we can, but the idea that there can ever be "justice" for the senseless killing of four beautiful young people is a myth. The criminal justice system would be better named the Criminal Grief System. It merely organizes punishment and consequences but can never restore what was lost or balance the scales of human suffering.
 
GRT said:
I don't think he was framed, but you make a good point. He has a look and mannerisms that scream, murderer...creep...creepy murderer...
Personally, I think he did it, but I wouldn't be super surprised if he were found not guilty.

None of us know for sure, and even a conviction or acquittal isn't a 100% guarantee of guilt or innocence. Look at all the people who have been wrongly convicted and look at those who probably should have been convicted but weren't--cough, cough, OJ, Casey Anthony...

We, as a society, do the best we can, but the idea that there can ever be "justice" for the senseless killing of four beautiful young people is a myth. The criminal justice system would be better named the Criminal Grief System. It merely organizes punishment and consequences but can never restore what was lost or balance the scales of human suffering.
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I agree, except I do believe there is a form of Justice when the murderer is tried and convicted by a jury of his peers and is locked away from a free society. It makes me feel better that people like this are not able to commit this type of heinous crime again.

The grief and human suffering, you're absolutely correct. It cannot be measured and I detest the word 'closure' for the loved ones of a victim. There is never closure IMO, they just learn how to get through it day by day, not over it, or around it but through it. :(

MOO
 
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