4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #96

[Chloegirl]

DBM

 

[Wallendo]

It makes no sense for LE to frame BK. This was not a case where LE "knew" who did it from the beginning but was looking for evidence to arrest and convict. At first there were no suspects. It was a good while before we had reports of the white car that eventually lead to the identification of BK. He wasn't arrested and his DNA taken until after familial DNA was used to locate him.

The only case I can imagine of BK being framed would be if there were a cunning psychopath at WSU who developed a dislike of BK, bought a knife and sheath. Some how obtained his DNA and planted it on the sheath. Convinced in some way BK to travel to the vicinity of the house. Owned or hired a similar white car to take to the crime scene, and somehow knew that there was enough familial DNA information available to make a connection. This might make a great Hollywood movie, but is not likely at all in real life.

 

[iamshadow21]

It makes no sense for LE to frame BK. This was not a case where LE "knew" who did it from the beginning but was looking for evidence to arrest and convict. At first there were no suspects. It was a good while before we had reports of the white car that eventually lead to the identification of BK. He wasn't arrested and his DNA taken until after familial DNA was used to locate him.

The only case I can imagine of BK being framed would be if there were a cunning psychopath at WSU who developed a dislike of BK, bought a knife and sheath. Some how obtained his DNA and planted it on the sheath. Convinced in some way BK to travel to the vicinity of the house. Owned or hired a similar white car to take to the crime scene, and somehow knew that there was enough familial DNA information available to make a connection. This might make a great Hollywood movie, but is not likely at all in real life.

I think there's only one cunning psychopath in this case, and I think he's already in custody.

MOO

 

[Arkay]

I agree, except I do believe there is a form of Justice when the murderer is tried and convicted by a jury of his peers and is locked away from a free society. It makes me feel better that people like this are not able to commit this type of heinous crime again.

The grief and human suffering, you're absolutely correct. It cannot be measured and I detest the word 'closure' for the loved ones of a victim. There is never closure IMO, they just learn how to get through it day by day, not over it, or around it but through it.

MOO

I agree with you.

The four aren’t going to be resurrected, so short of that what can be done to make things “right?” It’ll never be right again, but the murderer has to be punished for these heinous murders and also locked away from society.

It’s all that’s left, because closure is really amorphous when you can’t have your children back. But it’s something. Hopefully a turning point that allows the families to get through their days.

As to framing BK, just IMO it’s a non-starter.

Four lively students are viciously murdered and the investigators huddle together to figure out “hey, who’s weird and knows about crime? Let’s blame him!”

No, there is evidence. The DNA, the car, the fact that BK was in the area at the time, all the stuff we already know.

JMO

 

[wendy44]

The defense has been trying to pursue the timeline of the genetic genealogy for a while--their angle is that the dna came first, which led to the name, which could lead to possible avenues of appeal.

This is diametrically opposed to law enforcement planting his dna on the evidence, which would require having the name first, not the dna, then obtaining the dna and planting it (with the facts of the case we know so far, I can't see how anyone other than law enforcement would be able to plant the dna).

 

[Kemug]

The only way this creep was framed was if he has a severe personality disorder and framed himself. (MOO obviously)

Well, he does have a severe personality disorder.

 

[Milkyjoe]

Mr. Goncalves (incredibly brave, smart, and strong ) stated in a recent interview, that the killer's DNA was under the victim's bodies, as well as on the knife sheath.

IMO Their daughter Kaylee fought like a soldier on a battlefield. She was amazing to fight, for life. Fighting to leave the truth.
<modsnip - posting more than 10% is a copyright violation - see link>
This is quite profound too-

Idaho murder victim family speaks on Kohberger venue change​

Idaho murder victim family speaks on Kohberger venue change

SPOKANE, Wash. - A judge granted Bryan Kohberger's request for a change of venue in the murder trial of four University of Idaho students, drawing a "disappointed" reaction from the

www.khq.com

No he didn't, he said on a "sleeve" whereby he meant sheath.

 

[Milkyjoe]

Night running takes part in the latter part of the day, during evening time, not at 3:00 AM. Studies recommend night runners give 60-90 minutes for downtime after your night run, before retiring to bed, in preparation for the next working day. There are legitimate late night activities and then there is Bryan Kohberger.

My brother regularly runs at 3am.

People have varying sleep patterns.

 

[katydid23]

RSBM for focus...

IF BK was framed--and I don't think he was--it wouldn't be because he was "important," but rather because the quadruple homicide was important.

Unfortunately, LE has been known to fudge or plant evidence, coerce confessions, etc., leading to wrong convictions. It does not happen often, but it does happen, which is why the Innocence Project has been able to free hundreds of wrongly convicted defendants.

A notable difference between BK and those found to be wrongly convicted is that BK is a white grad student. In contrast, the majority of those found to be wrongly convicted as a result of police misconduct are minorities who didn't have the means to hire a good defense.

Of course, I don't know, but if LE was going to frame a suspect, why frame one working on a doctorate in criminal law? Wouldn't it be simpler to frame the homeless addict under the bridge?

All MOO

Where'd they get BK's DNA and why did they pick him?

Did they already know he just happened to be driving around alone, all night, with his phone off? Did they already know that he drove a car just like the one seen on video racing away from the scene?

I don't know how they could have known those things, so pretty darn lucky that they chose a patsy that didnt have an alibi already.

 

[GRT]

Where'd they get BK's DNA and why did they pick him?

Did they already know he just happened to be driving around alone, all night, with his phone off? Did they already know that he drove a car just like the one seen on video racing away from the scene?

I don't know how they could have known those things, so pretty darn lucky that they chose a patsy that didnt have an alibi already.

Since I don't think BK was framed, those questions are not for me. The discussion around planting evidence comes from insinuations from his defense team. So, it's worth discussing on that basis alone.

We have a hypothetical, but we don't know what's behind it because we're getting very little information due to the gag order.

 

[GRT]

This is diametrically opposed to law enforcement planting his dna on the evidence, which would require having the name first, not the dna, then obtaining the dna and planting it (with the facts of the case we know so far, I can't see how anyone other than law enforcement would be able to plant the dna).

RSBM for focus...

From what I've read, that's where most of the speculation lies.

 

[NCWatcher]

Where'd they get BK's DNA and why did they pick him?

Did they already know he just happened to be driving around alone, all night, with his phone off? Did they already know that he drove a car just like the one seen on video racing away from the scene?

I don't know how they could have known those things, so pretty darn lucky that they chose a patsy that didnt have an alibi already.

True in some ways. But I'm not sure it's clear yet that his car or one just like it was seen "racing from the scene." Initially LE searched for an older car than BK's. So which cars would be "just like his" is far from clear. Regardless, it's not as though "borrowing" a white Hyundai from model years 2011-2016 for the night would have been difficult. They are very common cars. And anyone wanting to frame BK would have attended to the license plates. (How often do you check your plate/s ?)

I also suspect most people who live alone and aren't in a romantic relationship may not have alibis for 4am. The likely activities of being at home alone and being asleep aren't exactly iron-clad alibis. And in an apartment complex, particularly one inhabited by students, it's very unlikely anyone would have noticed if a specific white car was there all night. And if someone WAS watching BK, it would have been possible to discover he was a "night owl."

So far as BK's car goes, when it was first impounded several of those infamous blathering "former agents" claimed the car would be a treasure trove of biological evidence. Here's an example Why Bryan Kohberger's car could be key to case—former CIA officer

Several former agents were sure there would be evidence of a sloppy cleanup too. We don't know all the evidence at this point. Some things we think we know may turn out to not be true in quite the way we think. And it's quite possible LE has evidence we know nothing about. But certainly there has been nothing to suggest those agents were right about the car being a "treasure trove." In fact, in some high profile cases (the Brian Laundrie/Gabby Petito case in particular) it's shocking how totally wrong former agents often turn out to be. (Maybe that's why they are former agents?)

IF BK was framed I wouldn't think getting a DNA sample would have been difficult. We aren't talking about managing to leave his fingerprint at the scene, after all. Getting DNA would involve planning and watching him. That would also reveal his habits. And watching BK would have revealed he wasn't likely to spend his Saturday nights with someone who could provide an alibi.

IF BK was framed by the "real killer" then failure of the frame so far as BK went wouldn't necessarily be a disaster for the framer, as long as the failure details didn't lead back to the framer.

At this point, I don't really think BK was framed. But I also don't see framing him as an impossibly complicated task. Seems it would be fairly simple to me.

MOO

 

[GRT]

True in some ways. But I'm not sure it's clear yet that his car or one just like it was seen "racing from the scene." Initially LE searched for an older car than BK's. So which cars would be "just like his" is far from clear. Regardless, it's not as though "borrowing" a white Hyundai from model years 2011-2016 for the night would have been difficult. They are very common cars. And anyone wanting to frame BK would have attended to the license plates. (How often do you check your plate/s ?)

I also suspect most people who live alone and aren't in a romantic relationship may not have alibis for 4am. The likely activities of being at home alone and being asleep aren't exactly iron-clad alibis. And in an apartment complex, particularly one inhabited by students, it's very unlikely anyone would have noticed if a specific white car was there all night. And if someone WAS watching BK, it would have been possible to discover he was a "night owl."

So far as BK's car goes, when it was first impounded several of those infamous blathering "former agents" claimed the car would be a treasure trove of biological evidence. Here's an example Why Bryan Kohberger's car could be key to case—former CIA officer

Several former agents were sure there would be evidence of a sloppy cleanup too. We don't know all the evidence at this point. Some things we think we know may turn out to not be true in quite the way we think. And it's quite possible LE has evidence we know nothing about. But certainly there has been nothing to suggest those agents were right about the car being a "treasure trove." In fact, in some high profile cases (the Brian Laundrie/Gabby Petito case in particular) it's shocking how totally wrong former agents often turn out to be. (Maybe that's why they are former agents?)

IF BK was framed I wouldn't think getting a DNA sample would have been difficult. We aren't talking about managing to leave his fingerprint at the scene, after all. Getting DNA would involve planning and watching him. That would also reveal his habits. And watching BK would have revealed he wasn't likely to spend his Saturday nights with someone who could provide an alibi.

IF BK was framed by the "real killer" then failure of the frame so far as BK went wouldn't necessarily be a disaster for the framer, as long as the failure details didn't lead back to the framer.

At this point, I don't really think BK was framed. But I also don't see framing him as an impossibly complicated task. Seems it would be fairly simple to me.

MOO

Good analysis and excellent points--especially the one about "former agents."

 

[Strangeworld]

.

 

[katydid23]

True in some ways. But I'm not sure it's clear yet that his car or one just like it was seen "racing from the scene." Initially LE searched for an older car than BK's. So which cars would be "just like his" is far from clear. Regardless, it's not as though "borrowing" a white Hyundai from model years 2011-2016 for the night would have been difficult. They are very common cars. And anyone wanting to frame BK would have attended to the license plates. (How often do you check your plate/s ?)

I also suspect most people who live alone and aren't in a romantic relationship may not have alibis for 4am. The likely activities of being at home alone and being asleep aren't exactly iron-clad alibis. And in an apartment complex, particularly one inhabited by students, it's very unlikely anyone would have noticed if a specific white car was there all night. And if someone WAS watching BK, it would have been possible to discover he was a "night owl."

So far as BK's car goes, when it was first impounded several of those infamous blathering "former agents" claimed the car would be a treasure trove of biological evidence. Here's an example Why Bryan Kohberger's car could be key to case—former CIA officer

Several former agents were sure there would be evidence of a sloppy cleanup too. We don't know all the evidence at this point. Some things we think we know may turn out to not be true in quite the way we think. And it's quite possible LE has evidence we know nothing about. But certainly there has been nothing to suggest those agents were right about the car being a "treasure trove." In fact, in some high profile cases (the Brian Laundrie/Gabby Petito case in particular) it's shocking how totally wrong former agents often turn out to be. (Maybe that's why they are former agents?)

IF BK was framed I wouldn't think getting a DNA sample would have been difficult. We aren't talking about managing to leave his fingerprint at the scene, after all. Getting DNA would involve planning and watching him. That would also reveal his habits. And watching BK would have revealed he wasn't likely to spend his Saturday nights with someone who could provide an alibi.

IF BK was framed by the "real killer" then failure of the frame so far as BK went wouldn't necessarily be a disaster for the framer, as long as the failure details didn't lead back to the framer.

At this point, I don't really think BK was framed. But I also don't see framing him as an impossibly complicated task. Seems it would be fairly simple to me.

MOO

So in this hypothetical frame job, the killer first picks out his patsy and stalks him for awhile? . He chooses BK somehow. Gets some of his touch DNA, and places it only on the inner under portion of the snap of a sheath. But no where else at the vast crime scene?

Goes to all that trouble to get that damning DNA but only places a very minor amount in a very obscure place on the sheath:? None placed in the crime scene for good measure? No DNA left on the mattress or doorknob in the bedrooms?

So they watch the patsy for awhile, maybe weeks, to see if he goes out during the wee hours, so there will be no real alibi?
And they see what kind of car he drives? So did they then rent or borrow a white Elantra to drive that night?

Was still pretty lucky that their patsy just happened to turn his own phone off and go on a long rambling drive all night long that night.

So after they got the patsy's DNA, got the knife sheath ready, borrowed a white Elantra, they chose some house and went and killed 4 students, placing the one tiny snip of Touch DNA under 1 victim, and drove away in the borrowed car?

And the person they rented or borrowed the Elantra from never reported it? And BK never noticed being stalked before the murders?

I hope the defense lays this out as their theory for how the DNA got there.