48 Hours and Paradise Lost; West Memphis Three

[kyleb]

And to further that point: Echols has a lot of dubious beliefs and has told many demonstrable lies, but that didn't prompt me to simply dismiss his claims of innocence and alibi as false, I gave him the benefit of the doubt when investigating those claims and took the evidence for what it shows.

 

[Ausgirl]

No, it's just that I don't care to waste time mincing words in refutation of one fallacious argument after another, be it the notion that Buddy Lucas's belief that he was levitated invalidates everything else he said or otherwise.

One can be succinct and polite at the same time. The two are not mutually exclusive.

 

[kyleb]

True, but branding people with names like "Levitation Boy" and the like isn't rightly polite by any stretch either, and my interest is in respecting the body of evidence in this case itself rather than spurious efforts to disregard it.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

Perhaps, as it can be accomplished without leaving conclusive evidence of such. Or perhaps it only looked like there was penetration involved from Misskelley's angle. Regardless, what Misskelley recounted in that regard goes a long way to explaining the nudity and the binding.

BBM

Even if they were not penetrated anally, they could have been orally. And the bodies were submerged in water overnight until their discovery the next day. I don't know if it would be possible to collect DNA considering that environment.

There could have been no other purpose that I can think of to have them all striped naked and bound except that they were raped and/or molested.

 

[primitivefuture]

BBM

Even if they were not penetrated anally, they could have been orally. And the bodies were submerged in water overnight until their discovery the next day. I don't know if it would be possible to collect DNA considering that environment.

There could have been no other purpose that I can think of to have them all striped naked and bound except that they were raped and/or molested.

They could have been stripped of their clothes in an attempt to keep them in line. They might be less likely to run if they were completely nude. They could have been stripped in an attempt to humiliate and terrify them further. The stripping of their clothes could have had to do with the killer not wanting to leave evidence. If they were killed in another location and moved, there might have been blood on their clothes that the killer didn't want to get on himself. I doubt that because blood stains fairly easily and I think there probably would have been dark stains on their clothes. I don't recall that the clothes were badly stained. Stripping them could have been part of the killers weird ritual. Some kind of bizarre compulsion. They could have been stripped in order to molest them. They could have even stripped themselves to swim in that grimy water. I doubt that, but it could have happened. I'm sure others could think of more possibilities, but off the top of my head, there are several. All anyone can do is speculate about why they were nude, and I definitely wouldn't say that the only reason they were stripped was so the killer could rape and/or molest them.


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[reedus23]

BBM

Even if they were not penetrated anally, they could have been orally. And the bodies were submerged in water overnight until their discovery the next day. I don't know if it would be possible to collect DNA considering that environment.

There could have been no other purpose that I can think of to have them all striped naked and bound except that they were raped and/or molested.

Off the top of my head, to strike fear, to intimidate, to humiliate, to prevent them from running, to punish, to go along with any sexual motivations.

 

[primitivefuture]

Off the top of my head, to strike fear, to intimidate, to humiliate, to prevent them from running, to punish, to go along with any sexual motivations.

Any of these could be possible. I think assuming that molestation is the only option is too simplistic. Whoever did this was a monster and who knows what goes through the head of someone like that?


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[Ausgirl]

^ A bullet would be awesome.

And there's also always the possibility of killer staging the whole cs to help hide his true motive. People really close to a victim and/or with obvious motive do this, a lot.

As far as non-penetrative rape goes, J K Martin actually described preferred ways for child molesters to rape their victims and leave no evidence. And he would know.. I once read somewhere that habitual, predatory pedos are far more likely to kill a child, once they've been in prison.

In any case, the boys were not anally raped. There'd be tearing, clear signs of trauma there, which were not present.

 

[primitivefuture]

^ A bullet would be awesome.

yes, please.

In any case, the boys were not anally raped. There'd be tearing, clear signs of trauma there, which were not present.

I agree. I would think the fact that there was no tearing or damage particularly hard to explain away for those who believe Jessie's confessions.


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[Ausgirl]

It really does put a big hole in the 'he confessed' thing, doesn't it? He was clear and adamant when he repeated that claim of anal sex over and over, as well.

But you know - part of the reason I am still well and truly on the fence is that I cannot shake the feeling that Jessie felt bad about -something-. Something he couldn't remember properly?

While there's also some fairly massive holes in the whole 'Jessie was very drunk' thing as well, I can see that as being one reason for him confessing, feeling guilt because he knows -something- bad went down, but filling in the blanks with BS details (that the police were more than happy to nudge him along with..).

That said, how Jessie's confessions, full of blatant inaccuracies and in parts very clearly co-erced as they are, are still trotted out as absolute proof of guilt is beyond me.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

It really does put a big hole in the 'he confessed' thing, doesn't it? He was clear and adamant when he repeated that claim of anal sex over and over, as well.

But you know - part of the reason I am still well and truly on the fence is that I cannot shake the feeling that Jessie felt bad about -something-. Something he couldn't remember properly?

While there's also some fairly massive holes in the whole 'Jessie was very drunk' thing as well, I can see that as being one reason for him confessing, feeling guilt because he knows -something- bad went down, but filling in the blanks but BS details (that the police were more than happy to nudge him along with..).

That said, how Jessie's confessions, blatantly inaccurate and in parts very clearly co-erced as they are, are still trotted out as absolute proof of guilt is beyond me.

From everything I have seen about Jessie and his mental capacity, My guess is that he was just railroaded into confessing in a way that he felt he was helping. I think if it were his memories they would have been correct. My guess is that he was told what" happened" by someone and repeated it incorrectly.. But I don't believe he knows anything about what happened to those boys. His stories are out there.

 

[primitivefuture]

From everything I have seen about Jessie and his mental capacity, My guess is that he was just railroaded into confessing in a way that he felt he was helping. I think if it were his memories they would have been correct. My guess is that he was told what" happened" by someone and repeated it incorrectly.. But I don't believe he knows anything about what happened to those boys. His stories are out there.

I don't think he knew anything about what happened, either. I mean, beyond details(right and wrong) that he had heard around town, since rumors were flying. Also, the idea that he was somehow motivated to talk to the cops based on a pea brain idea about reward money does not seem that far fetched to me. I can imagine the locals getting wind of a possible reward and Jessie sitting around with his friends shooting the s**t about what they would do with the money. That could have given him the idea.


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[UdbCrzy2]

It appears that Pasdar really didn't do much more than watch the movies before she became involved and then relied on Lorri Davis to keep her informed. I know she has said this in her Larry King interview and supporters did not want to believe it, but IF you think her declaration is truthful then it must be true.

5. After watching the Paradise Lost films, I donated money to the Damien Echols
Trust Account to assist with his legal fees.

6. Lorri Davis ("Davis"), the wife of Damien Echols and a leader among the WM3
activists, subsequently reached out and contacted me to thank me for my
donation. This began a correspondence and telephone communication
relationship regarding the WM3 case. Davis has acquired extensive knowledge
about the Murders, the trials of the WM3, the publicity about the WM3 and the
efforts of the WM3 to obtain post-conviction relief. I discussed with Davis the
trials, the post-conviction relief efforts and the evidence.

7. From that time to present, Davis and I have communicated through email and
phone calls, with Davis educating me about the investigation of the Murders, the
evidence, the information being publicized in the press and the WM3 attempts to
be released.

8. Davis was my primary source of information regarding the WM3, and I relied
upon her wealth of knowledge about the WM3 to keep me informed about the
ongoing proceedings. Also, I believe at different times I saw various news reports
about the WM3 case on television, in newspapers, and/or on the internet

http://callahan.8k.com/hobbs_pasdar/hp_38/hp_38_5.pdf

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

It appears that Pasdar really didn't do much more than watch the movies before she became involved and then relied on Lorri Davis to keep her informed. I know she has said this in her Larry King interview and supporters did not want to believe it, but IF you think her declaration is truthful then it must be true.



http://callahan.8k.com/hobbs_pasdar/hp_38/hp_38_5.pdf

Im not sure I see the problem. She saw the movies, became involved and then got more involved relying on info from LD..

Im not sure where the problem is.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

Im not sure I see the problem. She saw the movies, became involved and then got more involved relying on info from LD..

Im not sure where the problem is.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10036441&postcount=209"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - West of Memphis[/ame]

 

[primitivefuture]

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - West of Memphis

If Pasdar had said in her declaration that she had only viewed the movie before entering into her lawsuit, you might have a point. However, she said that after viewing the movies, she contacted Lorri Davis, who then educated her on the facts of the case. She goes on to mention emails she received providing links and documents regarding the case. I never declared that celebrities involved in the case had committed the entire Callahan library to memory. You originally stated "most of the celebrity supporters have ONLY seen the Paradise Lost movies,"and Pasdar's declaration does nothing to prove your statement true.


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[gheckso]

Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story prim ;p

 

[kyleb]

You originally stated "most of the celebrity supporters have ONLY seen the Paradise Lost movies,"

Where exactly did UdbCrzy say what you've put in quotes there?

 

[primitivefuture]

Where exactly did UdbCrzy say what you've put in quotes there?

I tried to post a link to the quote here to answer your question, but it ended up posting in the west of memphis thread, which is where Udb's original statement was made. I haven't figured out how this phone app works for linking to posts from other threads.

Edited to add, the quote you asked about was from post #206 from the west of memphis thread.(at least, according to my phone.)
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[primitivefuture]

Where exactly did UdbCrzy say what you've put in quotes there?

Did you find the quote I was referring to?


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