8 Die in Crash on Taconic State Parkway #2

[southcitymom]

I can't even imagine a raging alcoholic sitting alone in the house swilling down 10 shots of vodka in under an hour, much less a woman driving a car with 5 children in tow, stopping for breakfast, shopping for pain meds, filling up the car, making and taking cell phone calls and smoking a joint. It simply does not make any sense that she inadvertently drank too much, that the alcohol hit her differently that day, etc. I agree with you that something else was going on with her.

Addiction doesn't make sense to non-addicts, because addiction is soundly based in insanity and selfishness.

However, when I was using and parenting, there were a number of times when I inadvertantly used too much while caring for my kids (to include driving them wherever they needed to go) as well as times that the substance I used hit me differently on a given day, so I understand how that could happen to her. It has happened to me and a number of other addicts.

 

[SleuthyMama]

If there was a credit card charge for the liquor, you can be sure that Schuler's personal investigator was not going to make that public. So the only other investigator would be the LE and I have not heard of any kind of receipts of that type (but they may not be publicizing it at this time). I guess it would come out at the civil trail, but there will be no criminal trail (based on recent news). Comments?

I agree, she was drinking early in the trip.

Because the first thread is closed, I will repeat this again for the sake of any who missed it before. I am almost positive DS would have had to have the alcohol with her as on Sundays in NYS alcohol cannot be purchased prior to 12 PM and it must be purchased (any day of the week) from a liquor store.

After 12 PM on Sunday she would have only been able to purchase beer/wine coolers at a convenience store.

 

[tapu]

Two things I was thinking about, that are semi-related to questions raised by non-alcoholics here. (Hee-hee, "non-alcoholics." That's funny.)

Anyway, one is that I know I often made drinks in a way that I could hide them and then not been able to guess accurately how much alcohol I had in them, hence, I did not know how much I was consuming. Example: I used to go to my kids' softball games at 9 in the morning with a travel coffee cup full of root beer and vodka. Root beer was a great disguiser: who would suspect someone would drink root beer and vodka?? Besides, the smell was harder to recognize than it is in o.j. When I got about halfway down in the cup, I'd slip back to the car, get my bottle from under the front seat and fill up again. Who knows how much I consumed those times?


The other thing that I thought might help a little with people understanding how anyone could drink so much in a short time: I've thought about how, if you put 6-10 gin and tonics in front of me, I know I could get them down me pretty fast. BUT, if you took out the alcohol and expected me to drink that much tonic--no way. I couldn't drink 6-10 glasses of water! Of anything! Unless it has that magic alcohol in it. For an alcoholic like me, it is as if alcohol were made of my same substance, the substance of my body. My body craves it like others' crave water.

 

[southcitymom]

I can't fully express how much I appreciate all of the honesty on this thread and all of the different viewpoints. Once again, I am overwhelmed at the level of respect Websleuthers are able to keep when discussing extremely emotional subjects. Much credit needs to be given to the owner and the Mods for helping maintain such an amazing, special corner of the Web.

Like Tapu, I feel like it has been really beneficial for me to consider the questions and perspectives of non-addicts. It has been especially intriguing to find out that if I had wound up doing what DS wound up doing, there would be people (maybe even people close to me) who would think I was suicidal/homicidal, even though I have never felt like that - even at the apex of my addiction.

Obviously, my theories about what might have happened that day are filtered through my personal experiences with hidden using. I can't help but feel very connected to DS. As the child of an alcoholic parent who often drove me when he was drunk, I connect strongly with Emma and the other little girls. As a parent, I connect with Diane's husband and the Vances. As someone who dearly loves my family and our routine get-togethers, I connect with the Bastardis. I see myself in all of these people and so this case breaks my heart everywhere I turn.

I was PMing with a friend here last night and we were talking a little about how we might learn from this unimaginable tragedy. If any "good" can be found here, maybe it can be found in our willingness to open our eyes and our ears and our hearts and share honestly from our own lives in a re-examination of what we think we know about addiction.

 

[Sal]

I just wasted time writing a post and then to find I'd been logged out. Sheesh, I'd just logged in to post. What the?

 

[annmarie62]

I just wasted time writing a post and then to find I'd been logged out. Sheesh, I'd just logged in to post. What the?

I KNOW, RIGHT?!!! This happens to me all the time, and I DO know enough to click on "remember me?" button...:bang: aaaaannnnnd- my 'sig' added a colon where quote marks should go... weird! ETA- sig is fine now!

 

[southcitymom]

I just wasted time writing a post and then to find I'd been logged out. Sheesh, I'd just logged in to post. What the?

That's rotten. Has it happened to you before here? It has happened to me before but not in a long time. It might have to do with a setting on your computer - There is a technical forum here where someone can probably tell you how to fix it if it's your computer and not the site. Also, is very handy with all that stuff - you could shoot him a PM.

 

[JBean]

I just wasted time writing a post and then to find I'd been logged out. Sheesh, I'd just logged in to post. What the?

I do a few things to avoid that:
1. click the remember me box at sign in
2. go ahead and log in, the post is often still there.
3. push the back button and the post is sometimes still there.
4. as a matter of habit, if it is a long or particularly brilliant post I highlight and copy before I hit submit. Then if it is gone, I can just paste into the new text box. It's a good habit because ya never know when there is going to be any kind of a little hiccup or glitch.

 

[Sal]

JBean, ALL my posts are brilliant, whether long or short! And southcitymom, yes, it happens all the time. I'll give these hints a whirl that you posted JBean. I just want y'all to know that in my lengthy and rambling posts I had solved every one of this world's probs, but lo and behold, it was gone in a POOF! and things are right back to the way they were!

 

[JBean]

jbean, all my posts are brilliant, whether long or short! and southcitymom, yes, it happens all the time. I'll give these hints a whirl that you posted jbean. I just want y'all to know that in my lengthy and rambling posts i had solved every one of this world's probs, but lo and behold, it was gone in a poof! And things are right back to the way they were!

damn!

 

[Sal]

Shoot, I just wanna thank y'all for giving me the old what for on how to better stay logged in. I'm staying so logged in that I don't know if it'll even let me log out. This is the kinda logged in I am talkin bout!

 

[tapu]

I have hesitated to bring up the perspective on alcoholism in the following article, but I would guess it's been on more minds than just my own as we explore the many issues and implications of the extended topic of this thread.

Anyway, here is this:

http://www.longislandpress.com/2009/08/19/yeah-schuler-probably-was-sick/

 

[Wonder]

Because the first thread is closed, I will repeat this again for the sake of any who missed it before. I am almost positive DS would have had to have the alcohol with her as on Sundays in NYS alcohol cannot be purchased prior to 12 PM and it must be purchased (any day of the week) from a liquor store.

After 12 PM on Sunday she would have only been able to purchase beer/wine coolers at a convenience store.

You are right, stupid me...........when I drank I always made sure that I had some stash available. So she did have it tucked away (probably in multiple places) just in case.

 

[southcitymom]

I have hesitated to bring up the perspective on alcoholism in the following article, but I would guess it's been on more minds than just my own as we explore the many issues and implications of the extended topic of this thread.

Anyway, here is this:

http://www.longislandpress.com/2009/08/19/yeah-schuler-probably-was-sick/

Excerpt from this excellent article:

"But here’s the other thing that’s obvious: Our collective response confirms that we still don’t see alcoholism and addiction as a disease, but rather as an indulgence and moral failure. The American Medical Association accepted alcoholism as a disease almost 50 years ago and research over the course of the last decade has thoroughly detailed the complex neurobiology of addiction, yet we still see addicts as simply making a series of poor choices."

I love the whole disease/moral failure debate, and it might be time to explore it more fully. Would people have been calling for DS's head on a platter (or her soul to roast in Hell) if she'd had a stroke or a heart attack and caused this collision? Nope - we'd feel like she was the victim of a tragic medical condition, a disease. Many of us are not willing to extend the same level of empathy when we find out the disease she was most likely suffering from was addiction.

As a society, we attach a moral value to addiction that we do not attach to, say, cancer or diabetes. It's pretty fascinating.

 

[JBean]

Excerpt from this excellent article:

"But here’s the other thing that’s obvious: Our collective response confirms that we still don’t see alcoholism and addiction as a disease, but rather as an indulgence and moral failure. The American Medical Association accepted alcoholism as a disease almost 50 years ago and research over the course of the last decade has thoroughly detailed the complex neurobiology of addiction, yet we still see addicts as simply making a series of poor choices."

I love the whole disease/moral failure debate, and it might be time to explore it more fully. Would people have been calling for DS's head on a platter (or her soul to roast in Hell) if she'd had a stroke or a heart attack and caused this collision? Nope - we'd feel like she was the victim of a tragic medical condition, a disease. Many of us are not willing to extend the same level of empathy when we find out the disease she was most likely suffering from was addiction.

As a society, we attach a moral value to addiction that we do not attach to, say, cancer or diabetes. It's pretty fascinating.

Having a heart attack while driving is not illegal, but driving drunk is and that is a big part of this.Most that suffer from other diseases seek help and medical counsel, but DS did not, so I am personally less sympathetic.

ETA: I should add that I have first hand understanding of addiction.

 

[CatMama3]

ETA: I should add that I have first hand understanding of addiction.

snipped by me

First hand yourself or first hand thru someone else? Just curious.

 

[JBean]

snipped by me

First hand yourself or first hand thru someone else? Just curious.

I posted what I posted

 

[zippitydoda]

Jbean

OT: That eyeball is...well...different. What do the words say... my eyeballs don't work well enough to read it and I must know...

 

[JBean]

As I have posted many times, I have an epileptic son. if he were to skip meds and meals,stay up all night and get behind the wheel, there would be plenty of moral outrage if he had a seizure and killed innocent people. But if he was following medical direction and randomly had a seizure there would be sympathy. he is on medical probation for driving. he has to prove every 6 months that he is not a danger to himself or others on the road. i don't think it is out of line for other diseases that carry the same risk to be subjected to the same standards that he is.
I think it is the predictability of the possible harm that causes people to sit up and take notice when something like this happens.

 

[JBean]

jbean

ot: That eyeball is...well...different. What do the words say... My eyeballs don't work well enough to read it and i must know...

chargers!