MI - 2 children die in Detroit casino parking garage, police say they probably froze to death.

[airportwoman]

I really don't understand why it can "take months" to get the results back. If the children did not die from hypothermia, but some other issues, the other children may be at risk.

That doesn't make sense to me. Isn’t this a top priority issue?!

Detailed toxicology screens can indeed take months for full results.

 

[mickey2942]

Detailed toxicology screens can indeed take months for full results.

I don't know. We get samples back with a 24 hour turnover for suspected drugs. So, that doesn't seem correct.

 

[bombardier]

I don't know. We get samples back with a 24 hour turnover for suspected drugs. So, that doesn't seem correct.

Alas it's true. I believe hospitals have a quick turnaround time for their tox results done on site, but they only check for a few substances, and last time i saw a report, it just said 'detected' or 'not detected' and didnt quantify it.
When I was at the OCME, we had a ~6 month turnaround time for toxicology results. In extreme cases it was expeditated, but the backlog was just so overwhelming. The panel checked for many more substances though, and quantified the levels.

I think hospital labs just have the manpower and funding to do their samples much quicker; after all, the labs are built for fast diagnoses. While most people find the postmortem tox delay super frustrating, I guess there's less of a 'push' to tunnel funding towards that.

 

[bombardier]

I really don't understand why it can "take months" to get the results back. If the children did not die from hypothermia, but some other issues, the other children may be at risk.

That doesn't make sense to me. Isn’t this a top priority issue?!

I think they probably already have the preliminary results back, but the MEOs doesnt want to release any set-in-stone statements until all the info is in, including tox and blood gases. However, if the preliminary results showed something damning, I would hope the MEOs process includes communicating that with LE!

 

[Tower]

Alas it's true. I believe hospitals have a quick turnaround time for their tox results done on site, but they only check for a few substances, and last time i saw a report, it just said 'detected' or 'not detected' and didnt quantify it.
When I was at the OCME, we had a ~6 month turnaround time for toxicology results. In extreme cases it was expeditated, but the backlog was just so overwhelming. The panel checked for many more substances though, and quantified the levels.

I think hospital labs just have the manpower and funding to do their samples much quicker; after all, the labs are built for fast diagnoses. While most people find the postmortem tox delay super frustrating, I guess there's less of a 'push' to tunnel funding towards that.

You both make some really interesting observations. I’d guess it depends greatly on funding. Tox panels in my area are performed on newborns and their moms at delivery if substance exposure is suspected. They test for a pretty complete list of narcotics, barbiturates, amphetamines, alcohol, and many varieties of street drugs in order to assess if DFS must become involved. These come back in 24 hours. I’m totally ignorant of coroner timeframes, though.

 

[TMich6811]

You both make some really interesting observations. I’d guess it depends greatly on funding. Tox panels in my area are performed on newborns and their moms at delivery if substance exposure is suspected. They test for a pretty complete list of narcotics, barbiturates, amphetamines, alcohol, and many varieties of street drugs in order to assess if DFS must become involved. These come back in 24 hours. I’m totally ignorant of coroner timeframes, though.

Hospitals do clinical tox testing to show drug use or ingestion use quick or instant testing by a lab on site. Forensic tox testing takes a variety of samples throughout the body to determine what, how much and timeline. It’s much more complex testing and usually areas only have one lab where all forensic testing is sent

 

[Tower]

Hospitals do clinical tox testing to show drug use or ingestion use quick or instant testing by a lab on site. Forensic tox testing takes a variety of samples throughout the body to determine what, how much and timeline. It’s much more complex testing and usually areas only have one lab where all forensic testing is sent

Correct. I’m simply stating the hospital testing in my area is much more extensive than OP stated for their area. The speed and extent of hospital or forensic testing is based on local resources and varies widely.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

The children's grandmother, who was with the family, then reported that another child, a 2-year-old girl also was not breathing, police said. The friend returned to the parking structure to take the girl to the hospital.

Police: 2 children apparently freeze to death in a van at casino parking structure

The mother and her five children were unhoused and had been living in the van, a police spokesperson confirmed.

www.freep.com

Code Blue

Code Blue Warming Centers UPDATE In addition to the warming centers, two overnight respite locations will be temporarily activated:● Detroit Rescue Mission Ministries, 13130 Woodward Avenue, until …

camdetroit.org

 

[Kitsey]

Detroit mother given new home after 2 of her children die sleeping in frigid van

The children, Amillah Currie, 2, and Darnell Currie, 9, died Feb. 10 after the van the family was living in apparently ran out of gas.

www.nbcnews.com

Detroit mother of five children, two of whom died from possible exposure to the cold this month while the family was living in a van, has been given a new home days after her son and daughter were laid to rest.

A video posted by the city of Detroit and Detroit Rescue Mission Ministries this week showed Tateona Williams receiving the keys to her home.

 

[Joe Friday]

Surprised no criminal charges, that I know of, have been filed against the mother.

When the van stopped running and producing heat for the children, not seeking help at that time would have been negligent. She could have called 911, a church, or shelter and I don't imagine she would have been turned away if she had said she was in fear of her children freezing to death.

In other cases you see the children taken away and placed into protective custody, charges filed against the appropriate party, ect. But in this case none of that has occurred.

JMO

 

[Ontario Mom]

Surprised no criminal charges, that I know of, have been filed against the mother.

When the van stopped running and producing heat for the children, not seeking help at that time would have been negligent. She could have called 911, a church, or shelter and I don't imagine she would have been turned away if she had said she was in fear of her children freezing to death.

In other cases you see the children taken away and placed into protective custody, charges filed against the appropriate party, ect. But in this case none of that has occurred.

JMO

From all I've read, mom was asleep until noon the next day.
If that's accurate, it's pretty hard to dial 911, or seek any sort of assistance if you're asleep.

 

[TMich6811]

From all I've read, mom was asleep until noon the next day.
If that's accurate, it's pretty hard to dial 911, or seek any sort of assistance if you're asleep.

Speaking for previous poster - I think they mean at any point of being homeless with children in this level of cold

 

[Ontario Mom]

Speaking for previous poster - I think they mean at any point of being homeless with children in this level of cold

From all MSM articles that covered this story, the mom did seek assistance and for various reasons it never panned out.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

She said she did seek help. And why should there already be criminal charges? Causes of death haven't been released and it's also possible authorities will look at the circumstances and determine that it was a tragedy but not a crime.

 

[TMich6811]

From all MSM articles that covered this story, the mom did seek assistance and for various reasons it never panned out.

I was just clarifying what I thought they meant.

I don’t know either way. Did she reach out? No one is going to admit she did and that nothing came of it at this point.

IMO our country isn’t set up to handle these situations let alone Detroit. People are failed every day. I work in the field and I can’t even personally say I know where the line is between neglect and societal failure in situations like these

 

[Ontario Mom]

Did she reach out? No one is going to admit she did and that nothing came of it at this point.

RSBM

She says that she did reach out. Various links/sources further back in the thread.

 

[TMich6811]

RSBM

She says that she did reach out. Various links/sources further back in the thread.

She says yes. Many people say they reach out for services and don’t. This happens daily for us.

But what I said was even if she did, the agencies aren’t going to say she did and were negligent

 

[Joe Friday]

She said she did seek help. And why should there already be criminal charges? Causes of death haven't been released and it's also possible authorities will look at the circumstances and determine that it was a tragedy but not a crime.

@ChatteringBirds One could argue innocent until proven guilty, but that doesn't seem to stop authorities from removing children from their parents when charged with child neglect before they are convicted of other crimes such as using drugs, alcohol or abandonment to name a few.

What this mother did was a crime.

(k) "Child neglect" means harm or threatened harm to a child's health or welfare by a parent, legal guardian, or any other person responsible for the child's health or welfare that occurs through either of the following:

(i) Negligent treatment, including the failure to provide adequate food, clothing, shelter, or medical care, though financially able to do so, or by the failure to seek financial or other reasonable means to provide adequate food, clothing, shelter, or medical care.

(ii) Placing a child at an unreasonable risk to the child's health or welfare by failure of the parent, legal guardian, or other person responsible for the child's health or welfare to intervene to eliminate that risk when that person is able to do so and has, or should have, knowledge of the risk.

MCL - Section 722.622 - Michigan Legislature

www.legislature.mi.gov

JMO

 

[Joe Friday]

From all I've read, mom was asleep until noon the next day.
If that's accurate, it's pretty hard to dial 911, or seek any sort of assistance if you're asleep.

I also remember reading that the Mother didn't wake up until noon. Apparently the Grandmother didn't wake up until then either, and I think it is unclear if the Grandmother woke up and found the child not moving or had been woken up by the Mother when she discovered the child unresponsive. In an interview I seen the Grandmother says when she did wake up her grandson wasn't moving.

More baffling is the fact they called a family member who came and took the child to the hospital. While on the way to the hospital this family member received another call telling them another child was also unresponsive. I think at this point I would have been calling 911, but that is just me.

I don't claim to be that smart of a guy, but I think if I found one of my children unresponsive, I would have checked "all" my other children to see if they were OK. But apparently neither the Mother, the Grandmother or the family member who came to take the one child to the hospital bothered to wake up the other children to see if they were alive.

Knowing one of you children in a van is unresponsive and not checking on your other children also living in the van could also be considered neglect according to the law. Perhaps if the Mother, Grandmother or family member had check on all the children, the second child found unresponsive could have been saved.

JMO

 

[Ontario Mom]

I also remember reading that the Mother didn't wake up until noon. Apparently the Grandmother didn't wake up until then either, and I think it is unclear if the Grandmother woke up and found the child not moving or had been woken up by the Mother when she discovered the child unresponsive. In an interview I seen the Grandmother says when she did wake up her grandson wasn't moving.

More baffling is the fact they called a family member who came and took the child to the hospital. While on the way to the hospital this family member received another call telling them another child was also unresponsive. I think at this point I would have been calling 911, but that is just me.

I don't claim to be that smart of a guy, but I think if I found one of my children unresponsive, I would have checked "all" my other children to see if they were OK. But apparently neither the Mother, the Grandmother or the family member who came to take the one child to the hospital bothered to wake up the other children to see if they were alive.

Knowing one of you children in a van is unresponsive and not checking on your other children also living in the van could also be considered neglect according to the law. Perhaps if the Mother, Grandmother or family member had check on all the children, the second child found unresponsive could have been saved.

JMO

I have the exact same questions/concerns.