8 Die in Crash on Taconic State Parkway #2

[Nova]

I would like to apologize to Arielilane, NOVA, Fairy1, SuziQ, and bondobbs for
being pompous, rude, and vague..and to the entire group. Also to the Westchester County toxicology and medical examiners offices and associate employees for my slanderous and unsubstantiated charges and Zippitydoda for mis-abbreviating (her?) handle.
I was sidelined by the Moderators, and rightly so.

I don't know what all was posted, but speaking only for myself, I don't think you owe me an apology. But if you think you do, I certainly accept. No hard feelings here.

As little or much as I have learned about Diane I can not bring myself to believe she would have consciously or willfully endanger those kids. I believe something altered her thinking process, she lost control and began to drink,
in that order.
I think that as Diane was throwing up along the highway she broke a blood vessel in her head. I have read the autopsy report..it is only my opinion and I don't know how or why but I think this was missed.
One cause of Diane's throwing up may have been, as said, food poisoning. Another would be if Diane had over-exerted herself in some way that caused similar damage to her head which then lead to nausea and vomiting. I don't know if either is true but something was causing her to throw up initialy and later on and in combination with this it is assumed to be vodka.
I believe Diane's driving MO was true to form that day and twofold. I think she was looking for discreet venues in which to throw up while at the same time trying to make up for time lost on her stops. I don't know why those who witnessed Diane's agressive driving early on didn't call the State Troopers.

From the time I first heard about this case (when the doc was shown on HBO), I have argued against the intentional murder/suicide theory. So to that extent, I agree with you. Unless she had some sort of full-out psychotic break stemming from an organic disruption, I don't believe this apparently loving mother and aunt suddenly decided to kill off an entire generation of her family.

But sometimes events overtake us, our judgment becomes impaired, we make foolish decisions that seem reasonable under the influence of alcohol, etc. Something or things happened that morning that brought Diane, her children and her nieces to tragedy.

Other than your personal experience, I don't understand your suspicion of the BAC results. Didn't they retest those at Daniel's request? If it is your conspiracy theory that Diane never drank at all that morning, you've got a lot of people who must have signed on to the conspiracy.

 

[Nova]

Well I do not think anyone who drinks and drives consciously intends to hurt anyone. I think they all think they can handle it when in fact they cannot. If she had food poisoning or a stomach bug she must take those illnesses better than myself. There is no way I could even consider drinking alcohol if I was puking. Puking usually puts an end to my drinking anyway. But then again not everyone is me. I guess that is the mystery. Someone knows something and has kept it quiet. Or she was very good at hiding the real person she was behind a mask.

Thank you for sparking up the conversation about this again. It is a true mystery like the Ramsey case.

I'm with you, Dave. I don't see how she retained that much alcohol in her blood and her stomach if she had food poisoning. She must have been chugging vodka like it was soda pop! And even then I don't see how she kept it down.

 

[Davereid]

Hmmm. That makes a lot of sense and I did not know this. Is this assuming the insurance company has already made an offer on behalf of the insured? I was wondering because I would have hoped based on the victims and total fault of the driver; they would have already offered a settlement.
I said it before Daniel is going through the classic stages of grief. He was in anger probably when he filed before the time limit ran out. I hope he finds some way to acceptance and can provide the support his son is going to need for a long, long time. I have a feeling he will end up remembering some of that day if only the emotional impact. Poor kid. Thanks for the information.

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[arielilane]

Hi foilmans,

I must have missed some of your posts because I don't recall any offensive posts directed toward me. However, I accept your apology. I understand how emotions can be strong and overwhelming at times, especially in a situation where we will most likely never get the answers to all our questions. We only get more questions.

 

[packerdog]

Where and when would she get food poisoning? I can't recall if she ate with the children at MC donald's. I am sure they could tell what and when she ate last when they did the autopsy. I really believe that she was mad at the world and wanted to end it all . The booze and pot gave her the courage to drive the wrong way. Any way you look at it it was a selfish, horrible , act on her part.

 

[zippitydoda]

We've argued this before, zip; I don't understand your lack of compassion for Dan. I don't know that Dan will win his suits, given his wife's negligence, but he has every right to sue. He is also a victim here. And he is not a trained media spokesperson, so I'm reluctant to judge him so harshly. I try to remember I have never been in his shoes.

Hi Nova, BBM - thats quite a sweeping statement, and wrong too, but I'm ok that you wrote it because I enjoy chatting with you.

I certainly have a level of compassion for Daniel. He is also victim of his wife's drunk driving, pot smoking criminal actions that day. But, I also believe in personal responsibility. He appears to have stopped the behavior which caused the family members of the other car's three victims so much more pain, as its been over a year now and we have not heard more from him.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0909/01/lkl.01.html

....from the attorney for the Longo family. Here are the first public comments from them since the accident: "The scientific evidence indicates that Diane Schuler was intoxicated and under the influence of marijuana at the time of the crash. Any claims denying her responsibility for this tragedy are wholly unsubstantiated. And the Longo family thinks -- feels -- finds these claims appalling, offensive and hurtful. They have lost a loved one to a senseless tragedy and these claims do nothing but add insult to injury."

"I want Daniel Schuler to know that he keeps inflicting more pain on all concerned once again by going to the media to try to paint a picture of a perfect wife and mother."

I do have to remind myself that we appear to have cultivated generations of excuse makers and sue happy people. Would it be reasonable to expect that the insurance companies will recommend settling - rather than a long court battle, whose costs could exceed the offer they would make to him? Since you are well versed in these types of matters, can you let us know your thoughts on that?

Personally, this type of settlement practice disgusts me, as I feel it rewards people for bad behavior, does nothing to serve the greater good of society and only encourges more of the same type of lawsuits - but I try to live in the real world, one that has taxes, budgets and bottom lines, and if settling, even when the civil claim from the plaintiff is considered 100% false, costs less than an expect court battle between attorneys, I see why they do it.

 

[BuzzieCat]

Diane might not have set out to purposely harm anyone that day. But I really wonder about the phone call with her brother, because she must have known she was busted after that - if she was not too drunk to comprehend it. She was busted, and I really wonder what she thought about that.

 

[Nova]

Hmmm. That makes a lot of sense and I did not know this. Is this assuming the insurance company has already made an offer on behalf of the insured? I was wondering because I would have hoped based on the victims and total fault of the driver; they would have already offered a settlement.
I said it before Daniel is going through the classic stages of grief. He was in anger probably when he filed before the time limit ran out. I hope he finds some way to acceptance and can provide the support his son is going to need for a long, long time. I have a feeling he will end up remembering some of that day if only the emotional impact. Poor kid. Thanks for the information.

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Settlement offers probably have been made; they would be confidential and not reported to the media. The firms I worked for had a lot of insurance companies as clients. A common tactic was to make a very lowball offer that forced the claimant sue, then bury the other side in paperwork and attempt to win what is called a Motion for Summary Judgment (a motion made to a judge to dismiss the case before trial). If the MSJ was lost, then our clients would usually make a fairer settlement offer, the size of which would depend on the quality of the suing party's case.

Few cases ever got to an actual trial. The ones that did were ones where the claimant insisted on a settlement far greater than the cost of a trial and the likely damages.

We'll see in the cases resulting from this tragedy. It's all a big game to the insurance companies and they have the money to hire very expensive "teams".

 

[Nova]

Hi Nova, BBM - thats quite a sweeping statement, and wrong too, but I'm ok that you wrote it because I enjoy chatting with you....

I'm sorry, zip. You're right. My statement was much too broad.

My point is just that Daniel is a grieving father and husband. I don't understand why he isn't accorded the same latitude as any other victim.

I know the Longos claim that Dan's denial somehow "re-victimizes" them, but really that is their choice. They could just as easily show Dan the same compassion they are demanding from him.

The saddest thing is this case is that everyone left is a victim. I hope that someday they recognize their common bond.

***

See my previous post re insurance companies and lawsuits. I'm not saying there are no frivolous lawsuits. (In fact, most of the cases I worked on were pretty sketchy; the clear-cut cases were settled right away.) But insurance companies are some of the most profitable in the country. They are doing just fine and have lots of resources to help them avoid paying justified claims.

 

[nosysw]

I can attest to what you are describing, Nova...and how it is received is really a matter of how someone takes something- some realize it is "just business" and some take it personally (as I probably would, lol!). We were on a camping trip many, many years ago and long story short one of our group left a bar to return to our site on a motorcyle with another of our group (his best friend's wife who had never been on the back of a motorcycle but obviously was not in shape to demonstrate good judgment). They never made it back to our site- there was a sharp turn not visible to them in the pitch black night and they landed in a ravine, dead on impact. The husband ended up suing another friend who was not on the trip but the actual owner of the motorcycle. He wasn't upset knowing it was the only way his friend would get a settlement to take care of his young son. Many, many years later my sister was in a boating accident, the victim of a careless mistake of her father in law. She had to sue to get compensation for her major injuries (coma she eventuallly recovered from and loss of limb which caused her to lose her career of many years) and her family took the suit very personally causing a long term family rift...so who can say? I understand how I would feel about Dan revictimizing the family but who knows what his legal options were? Maybe this was the only way he could move forward to protect himself and his son(?)...

 

[Nova]

nosysw, thanks for putting details to what I described in the abstract. It's a lot easier to understand in your post.

Just to be clear, I believe the quotation that zippity provided was in response to Dan's early claims that his wife wasn't a drinker and couldn't have been drunk or stoned on the morning of the accident. The law suits hadn't begun at that time.

Since the parties started suing, I'm sure all have been advised to keep quiet by their attorneys.

But as your examples suggest, suing his wife's brother as owner of the minivan may be the only way Dan can collect the money his son will apparently need for special assistance and schooling because of his injuries.

 

[foilsman]

My thanks to Zippitydoda, Davereid, and Arielilane

My first thoughts on this tragety was that Diane did not smoke marijauna or drink vodka but was suffering from a rupture in her head that was the result of violent vomiting.
I have tried to establish possible reasons for Diane's behavior and condition that day in the early stages of her drive home.
I had assumed that it was fact that Diane was throwing up on Route 17 and beyond and that this was something that all could agree on. This was my opinion from reading the witnessed accounts, and being an advocate in and for Diane's defence I naturally discounted the idea that drinking vodka was the original cause of Diane's distress.
Although I had a right to question the toxocology and autopsy reports I had no right to cast doubt on them with only my predjudical advocacy of Diane's innocence to back it up.
The reason I refused to accept the BAC results is I found no reason for Diane to start drinking in the first place. I was attributing all her behavior that day to a stroke, without concidering that it could and odviously did lead to consuming alcohol. This was born out by the findings of her BAC appraisal.
I don't know how that day could have ended the way it did without Diane having been transformed by physical trauma, such as a stroke related event.
I think this lead to an inability to cope and was then compounded by the intake of alcohol.
Many thanks to NOVA for at least defending Diane against the absurd theary
of murder/suicide.

 

[Davereid]

You know as I read your post it reminded me of something. My cousin was at the beach one day when she got really disoriented. It turned out to be her blood pressure medicine. It does not really explain the vodka but if she did have some underlying side effect to a medication I guess that could have been the cause. I never read the autopsy report so this is pure conjecture. Did she have any prescription drugs in her system? Antidepressants? Insulin stabilizers? Something like that. If she had a racing, manic side effect should could have drank to bring her down. Just a thought. I think it makes us feel better to have a medical reason or any somewhat rational reason instead of just a total lack of responsibility with five kids in the car.

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[SwampMama]

This case haunts me to this day. I don't buy the suicide theory at all. I don't know what triggered Diane to begin drinking that day. I have given so much thought to this case and all of the facts of it and it just leaves me with an overwhelming sense of sadness for all involved.

 

[bondobbs]

My thanks to Zippitydoda, Davereid, and Arielilane

My first thoughts on this tragety was that Diane did not smoke marijauna or drink vodka but was suffering from a rupture in her head that was the result of violent vomiting.
I have tried to establish possible reasons for Diane's behavior and condition that day in the early stages of her drive home.
I had assumed that it was fact that Diane was throwing up on Route 17 and beyond and that this was something that all could agree on. This was my opinion from reading the witnessed accounts, and being an advocate in and for Diane's defence I naturally discounted the idea that drinking vodka was the original cause of Diane's distress.
Although I had a right to question the toxocology and autopsy reports I had no right to cast doubt on them with only my predjudical advocacy of Diane's innocence to back it up.
The reason I refused to accept the BAC results is I found no reason for Diane to start drinking in the first place. I was attributing all her behavior that day to a stroke, without concidering that it could and odviously did lead to consuming alcohol. This was born out by the findings of her BAC appraisal.
I don't know how that day could have ended the way it did without Diane having been transformed by physical trauma, such as a stroke related event.
I think this lead to an inability to cope and was then compounded by the intake of alcohol.
Many thanks to NOVA for at least defending Diane against the absurd theary
of murder/suicide.

Well, the ultimate problem with your assessment of the evidence in this case is that the science doesn't support it. I'd love to entertain an alternate explanation, but the autopsy showed she drank a lot of alcohol. Perhaps she smoked the pot the night before, who knows? The issue seems to be that what was wrong with Aunt Diane was that she consumed vodka and was drunk. Your theory of a stroke or food poisoning or a rupture in her brain is not supported by the evidence. I'm not saying she was evil or made an evil decision. I think she had BPD and, based on her previous impulsive decisions, made an impulsive decision that morning to drink to take the edge off. I think she was enraged that she had to be the responsible one, the one that had to drive the kids home when her child-like husband got to drive home alone with the dog. She had to do everything and she resented it. My theory of a murder-suicide is as equally as plausible as yours regarding the medical condition. I think it wasn't planned. She started drinking and didn't realize how intoxicated she would be after a trip that should have take 1/2 the time it actually took. She got further enraged when her brother called - or, more to the point - her niece called her father to report that there's something wrong with Aunt Diane. I' m not indicting her... I am expanding on the facts. Your messages seem to extrapolate a reason that has not been shown to exist.

 

[Saffron]

Diane might not have set out to purposely harm anyone that day. But I really wonder about the phone call with her brother, because she must have known she was busted after that - if she was not too drunk to comprehend it. She was busted, and I really wonder what she thought about that.

I wonder too. I suspect that knowing the content of that conversation with her brother would add an important piece to this puzzle. If Diane was a "I'll show you who's boss" type, any criticism or demands from her brother that day may have made her indignant and, impaired by the drug and alcohol, who knows what her intentions may have suddenly become.

 

[Nova]

You know as I read your post it reminded me of something. My cousin was at the beach one day when she got really disoriented. It turned out to be her blood pressure medicine. It does not really explain the vodka but if she did have some underlying side effect to a medication I guess that could have been the cause. I never read the autopsy report so this is pure conjecture. Did she have any prescription drugs in her system? Antidepressants? Insulin stabilizers? Something like that. If she had a racing, manic side effect should could have drank to bring her down. Just a thought. I think it makes us feel better to have a medical reason or any somewhat rational reason instead of just a total lack of responsibility with five kids in the car.

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I haven't seen the full autopsy report, but if they found any drug in Diane's system that would have been augmented by alcohol, I feel sure we would have heard about it by now.

 

[JakeWestSide]

This is just speculation, but is it possible that she got a restaurant employee very angry when they had to cook up those chicken fingers? It's known that they spit in food when they feel angry, so maybe somebody there slipped her a Mickey. It does happen. And everything after that was because she was feeling the effects of her tampered food?
She did pull off the road to vomit. She was getting sick, maybe from a Mickey or something in the food. And maybe she did think the vodka was water because she was getting very disoriented.
It just makes no sense to me that with kids in the car she would get drunk. She would drive back, get them all home, and then go get drunk.

 

[Nova]

This is just speculation, but is it possible that she got a restaurant employee very angry when they had to cook up those chicken fingers? It's known that they spit in food when they feel angry, so maybe somebody there slipped her a Mickey. It does happen. And everything after that was because she was feeling the effects of her tampered food?
She did pull off the road to vomit. She was getting sick, maybe from a Mickey or something in the food. And maybe she did think the vodka was water because she was getting very disoriented.
It just makes no sense to me that with kids in the car she would get drunk. She would drive back, get them all home, and then go get drunk.

I don't know, Jake. Obviously, spittle on food wouldn't take effect that fast and I assume the autopsy tested for the most common drugs. Would that include something like rohypnol? I honestly don't know.

I don't believe I've ever been impaired enough to confuse water and vodka, but, again, I can't say it's impossible.

Your post highlights what is for me one of the strangest aspects of this case: the vomiting. Diane's stomach couldn't separate its contents to void her breakfast while retaining vodka.

Considering how much vodka Diane had in her blood and how much was left in her stomach, if she also vomited more than once beside the road, HOW MUCH DID SHE DRINK THAT DAY?

 

[CCmakes3]

This is just speculation, but is it possible that she got a restaurant employee very angry when they had to cook up those chicken fingers? It's known that they spit in food when they feel angry, so maybe somebody there slipped her a Mickey. It does happen. And everything after that was because she was feeling the effects of her tampered food?
She did pull off the road to vomit. She was getting sick, maybe from a Mickey or something in the food. And maybe she did think the vodka was water because she was getting very disoriented.
It just makes no sense to me that with kids in the car she would get drunk. She would drive back, get them all home, and then go get drunk.

I'm not an expert, but I just don't think there is any sort of "Mickey" or mind-altering substance that wouldn't be able to be detected on autopsy. Do you have any sources on medications that would have such an effect on a person but wouldn't show up on an autopsy?