8 Die in Crash on Taconic State Parkway #2

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I wonder if she might have purposely took the "long way home" in order to have a few drinks and maybe smoke a j? A 35 minute ride that turns into 4 hours...obviously she was not right, even given the time spent at McDonalds and the gas station.

In trying to identify what would cause a false positive for alcohol I came across this:
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=361737
which is interesting; however, it only applies to urine tested for alcohol, not blood.

I'm leaning toward her possibly being angry that morning, or somehow irritated, I don't know....just something that caused her to maybe have an "I don't give an eff" attitude, but then I think no, no, there had to be something else. It's obvious that the ride home began okay, and got progressively worse...like she was drinking/smoking as she drove?..but the equivalent of 10 shots? I'm her size, and I do drink socially/happy hour at home, and 4 shots is max for me. She would have had to literally guzzle that bottle of vodka down...maybe that's why she had to stop and get sick? It bugs me.

Y'know, maybe she just "had it", snapped, maybe got some bad weed, was totally oblivious...but there's more to it than her just being a "drunk/pothead"...I don't believe that to be the case. I see how ambivalent/angry her husband is...like "wtf, now I'm alone with our son and you're gone, and it wasn't supposed to be like this..." I don't want to hate on him, but I hope he comes around and is able to see what he has rather than how much he has lost. I get a sense of "I knew something like this was going to happen..." when I listen to him talk.

Well, thanks for lettin me ramble on.....this is going to bug me for a while, I know I'll watch it at least one more time.

I am sorry for the famillies. I think Jay is being very honest. I get the feeling that Diane's old girlfriends interviewed in the program do/did not care for Diane's husband. Why her husband initially denies that his wife ever drank or smoked pot makes him look like he's trying to hide something.

Sad, so damn sad.
 
zippitydoda said:
...I think Diane became a deeply troubled woman, who, for whatever reason, could not see past her issues at that time, and purposely drank and smoked herself into oblivion to do the unthinkable.
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That is an incredibly succinct description of what most likely occurred.
 
Watched the docu this afternoon (most of it) and I have to say that my opinion now is that she was self-medicating. I think it is entirely possible/likely she had a toothache/headache and she decided after not being able to pickup advil to gulp some vodka. I can see her doing it really quick so the kids wont see and I can see her taking in way too much. Not sure when she would have smoked the weed, does anyone know if she smoked cigs? I noticed in the docu that Jay did.

Also, my opinion of Daniel is that he is just clueless, not that he doesnt love his son, I think he does, I just think he doesn't know how to function in the real world, his wife did it for him all those years.

Those are my takeaways from the docu.......
 
Nova said:
Dan probably won't like me "defending" him, Tezi, but my sense is that he is working class and not overly educated. He may not trust science. He may not have a great sense of the damage careless comments can do to children.

That's not to say you are wrong about his selfishness. I think you're right. But I also think some of things we are knocking him for are just typical for his economic class and geographic area.
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I think Nova hit the nail on the head here in his assessment of Daniel Schuler.

I just watched the docu this evening. Like a lot of people here, I have more questions than answers. But I think that's what the filmmakers wanted to convey; that the stark reality is we will never, ever have answers for this. We'll never know what happend to Diane that day and why she did what she did.

I can understand the anger directed at Daniel, but as far as emotions go, he doesn't strike me as the type of guy who has experienced any really deep emotions. He seems like more of a "surface" guy, where everything is just black and white with no grey area. I think Jay even said that about him in the docu. But it just makes me sad because he will be in denial about this for the rest of his life. He will NEVER admit that the autopsy results were correct, and I don't think he will ever let it go as far as trying to prove that the results were wrong.

I just felt so empty after watching the film tonight. I'm glad I saw it, because I was curious about it, but I don't think I'll watch it again.
 
sharkeyes said:
That is an incredibly succinct description of what most likely occurred.
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I was wondering if, despite both psychiatrists' assessments in the documentary, anyone thought this was a suicide. I don't really know how to analyze this possibility, but there might be something about Diane's always-on-the-go, everything-must-be-perfect way of life. As I listened about her full-time job, taking care of the children, ironing clothing, dressing the children impeccably, volunteering for all the classroom parties, and making detailed photo albums for relatives, I wondered what drove her to stay so, so busy. And then, she was unable to sleep at night. There's something different about all of this, but I don't know what it means, if anything.

I still think it's believable that Daniel can't understand that Diane was drunk that day. Granted, I've only known, and was raised by, alcoholics that slur and act "silly" and are obviously drunk, and I've never known what is called a functional alcoholic, but Diane's domestic lifestyle does not sound at all like that of a heavy drinker. And, as I recall when the story first came out, her liver showed no signs of alcoholism. (I realize that livers don't always show signs of long-term heavy drinking, but they often do.)

Sharkeyes mentioned bad marijuana. Maybe there's something there.
 
SuziQ said:
A badly abcessed tooth years old would be noticed IMO. A deceadants overall health is assessed before an ME goes looking for the COD.
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Do you have experience with autopsies, Suzi? I readily admit I don't.

But I wouldn't think looking for a bad tooth would be a high priority for someone who died in a traffic accident.
 
Saffron said:
I was wondering if, despite both psychiatrists' assessments in the documentary, anyone thought this was a suicide. I don't really know how to analyze this possibility, but there might be something about Diane's always-on-the-go, everything-must-be-perfect way of life. As I listened about her full-time job, taking care of the children, ironing clothing, dressing the children impeccably, volunteering for all the classroom parties, and making detailed photo albums for relatives, I wondered what drove her to stay so, so busy. And then, she was unable to sleep at night. There's something different about all of this, but I don't know what it means, if anything.

I still think it's believable that Daniel can't understand that Diane was drunk that day. Granted, I've only known, and was raised by, alcoholics that slur and act "silly" and are obviously drunk, and I've never known what is called a functional alcoholic, but Diane's domestic lifestyle does not sound at all like that of a heavy drinker. And, as I recall when the story first came out, her liver showed no signs of alcoholism. (I realize that livers don't always show signs of long-term heavy drinking, but they often do.)

Sharkeyes mentioned bad marijuana. Maybe there's something there.
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A lot of people on previous pages seem to think it is quite possible that Diane committed suicide. I would give that theory greater credence if the nieces hasn't been in the car. I just can't believe Diane decided to kill them, too.
 
MaryLiz said:
I think Nova hit the nail on the head here in his assessment of Daniel Schuler....
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Thanks, MaryLiz, and thanks also to Robin. I'm afraid that other posters will start blaming me for the accident. I swear I was 3,000 miles away that day!

To me, Dan Schuler is still grieving and probably will continue to grieve while he remains in so much denial (or, miraculously, disproves the coroner's conclusions). That breaks my heart.

My heart also goes out to the Hances, who have also lost so much.

Dan's actions since the crash have been sad in many ways. Suing his in-laws is sad, and so is their countersuing him.

I understand the concern for his son, but I don't understand the lack of sympathy for a man who has suffered more tragedy than most of us will ever know.
 
Saffron said:
Sharkeyes mentioned bad marijuana. Maybe there's something there.
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I suggested that also in 2009 way back on the first thread somewhere. I also wondered if the pot was laced with something, but another poster pointed out if it had been laced with another substance, it would have shown up on the drug screen. But I agree it's very possible it was just bad weed, and combining it with the vodka could have caused such a severe reaction in Diane.

What I can't figure out (among other things) is when she smoked the pot. According to the Wiki article about the crash, the lab report said that she smoked it as recently as 15 minutes before the accident. I can't imagine she was smoking pot in the van while driving with all the kids. Her niece would surely have mentioned it to her dad when she was talking to him on the phone and telling him Aunt Diane was having difficulty seeing and there was something wrong with her. I know the lab results are correct, but between approximately 9:30 a.m. when she left the campground and 1:30 p.m. at the time of the accident, I just can't figure out when and where she smoked the pot without being seen by anyone, or without a witness smelling it. I suppose she could have snuck off somewhere at the campground before she left and smoked it, but I don't think the lab results would have said she did it as recently as 15 mins before the crash if she had smoked it 4+ hours before. Another totally baffling aspect of this tragedy.
 
Nova said:
Thanks, MaryLiz, and thanks also to Robin. I'm afraid that other posters will start blaming me for the accident. I swear I was 3,000 miles away that day!

Are you sure??? :innocent: :truce:

To me, Dan Schuler is still grieving and probably will continue to grieve while he remains in so much denial (or, miraculously, disproves the coroner's conclusions). That breaks my heart.

My heart also goes out to the Hances, who have also lost so much.

Dan's actions since the crash have been sad in many ways. Suing his in-laws is sad, and so is their countersuing him.

See I don't call that sad I call it detestable!

I understand the concern for his son, but I don't understand the lack of sympathy for a man who has suffered more tragedy than most of us will ever know.
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Sympathy for him I had once and I'm sorry for his loss but to sue the parents of the 3 children his wife killed is to me loathsome, repugnant and abhorrent!

Nova could it be a gender thing???? :truce:

FYI all of the above is my opinion only.
 
MaryLiz said:
I suggested that also in 2009 way back on the first thread somewhere. I also wondered if the pot was laced with something, but another poster pointed out if it had been laced with another substance, it would have shown up on the drug screen. But I agree it's very possible it was just bad weed, and combining it with the vodka could have caused such a severe reaction in Diane.

What I can't figure out (among other things) is when she smoked the pot. According to the Wiki article about the crash, the lab report said that she smoked it as recently as 15 minutes before the accident. I can't imagine she was smoking pot in the van while driving with all the kids. Her niece would surely have mentioned it to her dad when she was talking to him on the phone and telling him Aunt Diane was having difficulty seeing and there was something wrong with her. I know the lab results are correct, but between approximately 9:30 a.m. when she left the campground and 1:30 p.m. at the time of the accident, I just can't figure out when and where she smoked the pot without being seen by anyone, or without a witness smelling it. I suppose she could have snuck off somewhere at the campground before she left and smoked it, but I don't think the lab results would have said she did it as recently as 15 mins before the crash if she had smoked it 4+ hours before. Another totally baffling aspect of this tragedy.
Click to expand...

The New York Times puts the range for marijuana smoking at 15 minutes to an hour. I'll be very surprised if that hour limit is absolute, but basically Diane smoked sometime between 12:30 and 1:30. If the coroner is correct, smoking at the McDonalds is out: that stop was too early. IIRC she was seen stopped at least twice in her final hour. Most likely she smoked at one of those stops.
 
tiredblondy said:
Sympathy for him I had once and I'm sorry for his loss but to sue the parents of the 3 children his wife killed is to me loathsome, repugnant and abhorrent!

Nova could it be a gender thing???? :truce:

FYI all of the above is my opinion only.
Click to expand...

The Hances are also suing him. Granted Dan's suit was filed first, but who knows what was discussed between them? In any event, if his suit is so despicable, so is theirs, even if it is largely retaliatory.

The entire family is devastated and acting out inappropriately.

The Hances chose not to participate in the documentary; Daniel and his sister-in-law chose the opposite. All parties were within their rights.

The same is true when it comes to accepting the coroner's report or filing litigation to fight it. The Hances are within their rights to accept the report, but where is it written that they get to dictate Dan's response? The same is true of the Bastardis. The insistence of some victims that all victims respond in the same way is not reasonable.

I see nothing contradictory about feeling sorry for all these people who have lost loved ones and had their lives turned upside down. There's no reason we who don't even know them need to choose sides.

So, no, I don't see what gender has to do with it. I certainly don't mind having my motives questioned; I try to question them myself with some frequency and you asked in an entirely respectful way.

Re gender, do you mean am I siding with Daniel because he and I are both dudes? Or do you mean am I making excuses for Diane because I'm a man defending the "little woman"? Either way, I doubt it; I wasn't raised in a family where there was much male bonding or condescension to women. But you if see evidence otherwise in my remarks, please feel free to show me where.
 
Before I watched the documentary yesterday, I blamed Diane and only Diane for the accident. After I watched the documentary, I felt the Schuler family did bear some culpability. (There are functional alcoholics in my family who hide their drinking, but we all KNOW.) However, it is important to note that editting interviews can totally slant them in one way or another, so at this point, I'm admitting (with much regret) that we will probably never know what happened, BUT the lawsuits need to stop. There can be no healing for anyone until the drama ends. That said, there are some people who cannot give up drama for anything--even if their lives depend on it. It's my opinion that may be the case with Daniel & Jay. JMO
 
Nova said:
do you mean am I siding with Daniel because he and I are both dudes? .
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I never concluded that you were a dude..not that it matters to me... I enjoy reading your thoughts, and your perspective makes me think and consider your positions regarding this very sad ongoing situation.

p.s. I'm a big fan of all the dudes in my life. :great:
 
It's obvious that Diane Schuler was one of those "hyper responsible, tightly wound" people as described in the documentary. Having her mother abandon the family with the next door neighbor who was also a friend of the family - as noted by one of her girlfriends in the interview - had to be absolutely devastating to Diane at the age of only 9. The fact that her brothers renewed relationships with their mother probably did not sit well with Diane, and she continued to hold that "unarticulated grudge" which she discussed with no one. Now, put it all in a pile, everything stated in the documentary, the psych opinions, the go-go-go personality of Diane, the fact that she was a "very private" person who "didn't talk about personal issues and feelings with anyone" [not even Daniel] and even the autopsy - which, with the exception of the gross physical injuries from the accident indicates she was in very good shape - her organs are not diseased and are described to be quite normal in appearance. So, what would make someone who always appears to be so "in control" suddenly become so "out of control"?

She was definitely not in her right mind. What causes a "break" like that? Well, the weight of all the responsibility she had coupled with the constant effort to stay on top and one step ahead and only show everyone how "together" she was could have caused a psychotic break and she just "lost it" and drank/smoked herself into oblivion thinking "I am SO DONE with this crap, to hell with everybody...eff it!" We'll never know, but it's possible.

Also, I keep coming back to the possibility of her suffering a migraine attack - there's no mention of her ever having migraines, but her lifestyle sure is fertile ground to grow one helluva migraine, and there's a first time for everything. Migraines can mimic strokes in some ways, here's an interesting link; there are lots more out there.

http://www.ehow.com/about_5553933_confusion-aura-stage-migraine-headache.html

It's possible the onset of migraine might have caused her to reach for the bottle/joint to ease the pain - not condoning the use of either for migraine, just hypothesizing.

I get migraines once in a while, and the first time I experienced one I literally thought I was having a stroke...I could not see out of one eye, it wasn't black, but I couldn't focus (I was reading a box of brownie mix and all of a sudden it felt like someone dumped cement on the back of my neck), I told my husband I thought I was having stroke and we went to the ER. Anyway, every time I listen to people describe what little interaction they had with Diane prior to the accident, it makes me think of the possibility of a migraine playing a part in this tragedy.

Okay, I'm done....for now. Thanks for the space to ramble!
 
Hi Nova, :seeya:

This is in response to the partial clip below from your response to me last night or in the wee hours of this am.


quote from Nova
[Re gender, do you mean am I siding with Daniel because he and I are both dudes? Or do you mean am I making excuses for Diane because I'm a man defending the "little woman"? Either way, I doubt it; I wasn't raised in a family where there was much male bonding or condescension to women. But you if see evidence otherwise in my remarks, please feel free to show me where. ]

It is very interesting to me how you interpreted my gender comment. Both questions "do you mean" had to do with you defending Daniel or his wife.

When I said "Nova, do you think it's a gender thing?"
I was only speaking about you and me. You have been very rational and rather analytical where I feel very emotional which can lead to a difference of opinion.

I guess I should have added "do you think it's a gender thing that we can't agree on this?" so it wasn't so vague.

:waitasec: I see you struggling to understand many of our reactions and it reminds me of men trying to understand women :banghead: but... Oh My... that is another subject. I agree with Zippitydoda I am a big fan of most of the dudes in my life.

As far as the Hance family counter suing the husband, I feel that is in self defense and a necessary action.

Your last sentence in the above quote was wonderful and I thank you for it. You are always open to others opinions or new information. I guess you feel like you have come under fire here but you've hung in here longer than I would have. Although we may disagree on this there are many other times we have agreed.

I'm pretty sure we will never agree on this one but can agree to disagree. ;)
 
Nova said:
The Hances are also suing him. Granted Dan's suit was filed first, but who knows what was discussed between them? In any event, if his suit is so despicable, so is theirs, even if it is largely retaliatory.

The entire family is devastated and acting out inappropriately.
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The Hances have carried themselves with dignity through this entire thing.

If they are countersuing Dan, that is a legal strategy to prevent Dan's suit from being successful in light of the enormity of their losses.
 
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