VCDaedalus
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Thank you!
8 Die in Crash on Taconic State Parkway
- Thread starter SleuthyMama
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Thank you!
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Heartbreaking and these highway angels were well[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] experienced to help this family. I am amazed the little boy survived. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]From the way this man spoke, it sounds to me Schuler never moderated her speed. Did either car brake or try to pull out of the way? [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I have wondered if Diane and Daniel had a fight before she left the campground. Perhaps they fought over his fishing trip. Him leaving her to take all the children home alone. He is the only one that can discuss that morning. Even if she was depressed and on meds[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif], she had excessive amount[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]s of alcohol [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]combinced with weed in her system . [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The husband[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] has good cause to be less than honest about her condition [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]if she was already consuming before she left the campground or [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]about any reason she [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]may have gone on a bender when she got in the car. Personally, I don't think there is a[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]ny question she was drunk and caused the accident. The question in my mind[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] is why[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]. Why this morning with all those children in her care? If she ha[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]d never exposed any addiction[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]s to her family before, if she hadn't had this accident[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif], she w[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]ould have arrived at her brother[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]'s home to deliver his children home [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]very very drunk. [/FONT]
VCDaedalus
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"I remember laying in bed one night just wishing I could break a bone to take my mind off my pain."
Been there, done that. Broke the bone. Bruised the skin. Cut the skin. No insurance, ergo, no comprehensive medical care. No way I was going to be institutionalized. Got through it without drugs.
There are a few cases of depression so severe that a person is literally not getting out of bed to eat, dress, or wash. In cases where people are institutionalized, a short-term and carefully monitored course of ADs--not necessarily SSRIs--can lift them up and make them amenable to therapy.
Talk therapy and drugs will not, however, save a broken marriage, make a delinquent child behave, make someone love you who doesn't, get a family to admit to abuse, bring back the dead, or unring a bell. All those things are called life experiences. If you can't change your circumstances--or won't--drugging yourself may be the option.
I don't say that you are doing that, but for some people that's the choice they make. I personally know a woman who would rather take her ADs than divorce her husband and leave her nice suburban home. She needs to be numbed out.
But I would never support people being on these for the rest of their lives, even if doctors do propagate the myths that the drugs have no side effects that are dangerous, that they are "just like insulin for diabetes," and that any discontinuation discomfort means a worse case of endogenous depression--not a medication reaction or withdrawal symptoms.
Here's some of the lies I heard, by a psychiatrist and a drug counselor: safe as vitamins. You can't overdose. People who aren't depressed won't get any effect, they only work on depressed people. You can take them "as needed." They're not addictive and there aren't any withdrawal symptoms. If you stop taking them, your "disease" will get worse. If you feel bad after stopping them, it has nothing to do with the drugs or anything like withdrawal. It's because your depression is either more severe than originally thought--or you have another disorder that we need to give you more drugs for.
My own therapist has been on bupropion for years--and she's trying to get off it. She doesn't like that she has to taper, taper, taper. She's worried about dementia down the road. Your neurons cannot withstand the assault forever.
People who cite success with SSRIs always stress that their doctor is very involved, the drugs are taken very carefully, polypharmacy is avoided, and one's condition is frequently monitored. This, as much as the drugs, could account for some (not necessarily all) of the effect. Not everyone has a doctor who cares to do that. The doctors at the clinic I go to would hand you free samples just for asking.
I'm not saying that SSRIs don't make people feel better (so does cocaine and alcohol--but does that mean you have deficiencies of cocaine and alcohol in your system?). But I believe, along with Peter Breggin and others, that they do more harm than good, especially since we only have 8-week drug studies and the long-term effects won't be known until you are perhaps at retirement age.
And this is relevant to the Schuler conversation because among the listed effects of SSRIs are rage reaction--the kind of thing that could make a woman throw away a cell phone, swig from a bottle of vodka, and go tearing down a highway.
If it is unequivocably proven she had no breakdown products of SSRIs in her blood and was not taking them, then another explanation, perhaps just alcohol and emotional distress, will take its place. We either don't have that information yet, or there was no test made for anything other than ETOH and MJ.
Been there, done that. Broke the bone. Bruised the skin. Cut the skin. No insurance, ergo, no comprehensive medical care. No way I was going to be institutionalized. Got through it without drugs.
There are a few cases of depression so severe that a person is literally not getting out of bed to eat, dress, or wash. In cases where people are institutionalized, a short-term and carefully monitored course of ADs--not necessarily SSRIs--can lift them up and make them amenable to therapy.
Talk therapy and drugs will not, however, save a broken marriage, make a delinquent child behave, make someone love you who doesn't, get a family to admit to abuse, bring back the dead, or unring a bell. All those things are called life experiences. If you can't change your circumstances--or won't--drugging yourself may be the option.
I don't say that you are doing that, but for some people that's the choice they make. I personally know a woman who would rather take her ADs than divorce her husband and leave her nice suburban home. She needs to be numbed out.
But I would never support people being on these for the rest of their lives, even if doctors do propagate the myths that the drugs have no side effects that are dangerous, that they are "just like insulin for diabetes," and that any discontinuation discomfort means a worse case of endogenous depression--not a medication reaction or withdrawal symptoms.
Here's some of the lies I heard, by a psychiatrist and a drug counselor: safe as vitamins. You can't overdose. People who aren't depressed won't get any effect, they only work on depressed people. You can take them "as needed." They're not addictive and there aren't any withdrawal symptoms. If you stop taking them, your "disease" will get worse. If you feel bad after stopping them, it has nothing to do with the drugs or anything like withdrawal. It's because your depression is either more severe than originally thought--or you have another disorder that we need to give you more drugs for.
My own therapist has been on bupropion for years--and she's trying to get off it. She doesn't like that she has to taper, taper, taper. She's worried about dementia down the road. Your neurons cannot withstand the assault forever.
People who cite success with SSRIs always stress that their doctor is very involved, the drugs are taken very carefully, polypharmacy is avoided, and one's condition is frequently monitored. This, as much as the drugs, could account for some (not necessarily all) of the effect. Not everyone has a doctor who cares to do that. The doctors at the clinic I go to would hand you free samples just for asking.
I'm not saying that SSRIs don't make people feel better (so does cocaine and alcohol--but does that mean you have deficiencies of cocaine and alcohol in your system?). But I believe, along with Peter Breggin and others, that they do more harm than good, especially since we only have 8-week drug studies and the long-term effects won't be known until you are perhaps at retirement age.
And this is relevant to the Schuler conversation because among the listed effects of SSRIs are rage reaction--the kind of thing that could make a woman throw away a cell phone, swig from a bottle of vodka, and go tearing down a highway.
If it is unequivocably proven she had no breakdown products of SSRIs in her blood and was not taking them, then another explanation, perhaps just alcohol and emotional distress, will take its place. We either don't have that information yet, or there was no test made for anything other than ETOH and MJ.
robinparten
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It's possible, if the kids were not buckled in, that theyunbuckled themselves in the panic and pandemonium of the last minutes in that car.
Native New Yorker
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I suppose that is possible, but not for a 2 year old....have also never heard of anyone doing that in a drive,and from all accounts, the last few moments of their lives were not filled with swerving, honking, etc....she was driving straight and calmly....to their deaths.......
robinparten
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I bolded the part of your comment that also really haunts me. I, too, am convinced that her drinking and drug use caused the accident. But her behavior that morning doesn't square with someone who had gotten really good at hiding her addiction. But as SouthCityMom has pointed out, addiction isn't logical. It could be that she decided to hide some vodka in a McDonalds cup of OJ (just a little, just enough to get her home with all those noisy kids in the car), and once she got a little tipsy (and it felt good!) and her judgment was becoming impaired, she just kept taking a little nip until she was seriously drunk. I have had a hard time imagining her actually smoking a joint in the car with the kids, I keep thinking the pot was hidden in food or something.
robinparten
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Sorry, I missed the reports that she was driving straight at the time of the accident. Seems like I had heard that earlier in the drive, people reported seeing her passing cars, on the grassy median, etc. How could it be that she was driving as you would expect a drunk to drive (swerving etc) in part of the drive and then drive very deliberately toward the end? Could it be that eyewitnesses are off in their accounts?
It was important, IMO, to get the feedback from posters on addictive behavior. It wouldn't be unusual for a drinker to start sipping the minute she was on the road. Although I lean toward "unthinking rage" (you know how easy it is for someone even in a phone call to say the wrong thing --- like the beauty: "You are totally out of control! You stay right where you are!" (sure you will)
The way she was driving earlier on could come from rage, delirium, or trying to get somewhere really fast. Trying to give her the benefit of the doubt (e.g., trying to get a child to the hospital for a seizure) just does NOT work here since she CHOSE to drink an incredible amount of alcohol, drive, and put the lives of everyone near her at risk. As others have posted I agree she was a habitual drinker with a high tolerance and thus was able to function --- well, stay awake. I guess we'll never know what was really going on with her unless her 5-year-old recovers and is able to remember anything about that day? Or if a friend or relative talks....
The way she was driving earlier on could come from rage, delirium, or trying to get somewhere really fast. Trying to give her the benefit of the doubt (e.g., trying to get a child to the hospital for a seizure) just does NOT work here since she CHOSE to drink an incredible amount of alcohol, drive, and put the lives of everyone near her at risk. As others have posted I agree she was a habitual drinker with a high tolerance and thus was able to function --- well, stay awake. I guess we'll never know what was really going on with her unless her 5-year-old recovers and is able to remember anything about that day? Or if a friend or relative talks....
oh_gal
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I keep hearing the husband say, "She didn't drink!", has he also said, "She didn't smoke pot!"? I'm sorry if this has already been addressed...I don't know how to go to the many pages of posts to find out exactly if someone has mentioned this, and what the answer is. Anyone know?
Thanks!
Thanks!
Another wrong way driver on the Tappan Zee bridge. Not an impaired driver... elderly. It does make me wonder if the DOT should make some changes to exits and entrances. I've never been in the area but if I am I think I would avoid that road at all costs.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/08102009/news/regionalnews/bridge_driver_terror_183816.htm
http://www.nypost.com/seven/08102009/news/regionalnews/bridge_driver_terror_183816.htm
arielilane
Justice for Liz Barraza
arielilane
Justice for Liz Barraza
Bold by me: I wonder if DS was thinking the same?
The woman rolled through a toll lane and knew she was driving the wrong way but kept going, telling cops she assumed there'd be a lane for a U-turn.
After receiving multiple 911 calls from shocked motorists, troopers rushed to the wrong-way driver and pulled her over on the Rockland County side of the bridge before any collisions, officials said.
"This was an elderly woman who just made a mistake," Parent said. "She was confused."
arielilane
Justice for Liz Barraza
The more I think about this case the more irritated I get.
Seems to me that DSs family is hiding something and not being truthful.
Seems to me that DSs family is hiding something and not being truthful.
arielilane
Justice for Liz Barraza
Who to Believe in Diane Schuler Taconic Tragedy?
Who should we believe?
On the one hand we have a distraught husband who now says his wife did not drink and a lawyer known for antics both inside and outside the courtroom who would have us believe that Diane Schuler killed herself and seven others when she drove in the wrong direction on the Taconic State Parkway because she was a) possibly diabetic; b) suffering from a tooth abscess; c) had a lump on her leg that may have been traveling to her brain.
On the other hand we have autopsy and toxicology reports from a state-of-the art crime lab that not only ruled out the possibility that Diane Schuler suffered from a stroke, heart attack or diabetic episode, but found she was both drunk (to the point of being twice the legal limit) and high on marijuana.
Who should we believe?
On the one hand we have a distraught husband who now says his wife did not drink and a lawyer known for antics both inside and outside the courtroom who would have us believe that Diane Schuler killed herself and seven others when she drove in the wrong direction on the Taconic State Parkway because she was a) possibly diabetic; b) suffering from a tooth abscess; c) had a lump on her leg that may have been traveling to her brain.
On the other hand we have autopsy and toxicology reports from a state-of-the art crime lab that not only ruled out the possibility that Diane Schuler suffered from a stroke, heart attack or diabetic episode, but found she was both drunk (to the point of being twice the legal limit) and high on marijuana.
arielilane
Justice for Liz Barraza
August 10, 2009 3:43 PM
Mr. Schuler has had issues with drinking in the past. In 1995, Mr. Schuler was arrested for DWI. While this was 15 years ago, it certainly hurts his credibility. The five year old survivor may be the only one who will be able to tell investigators what was really going on, but even then, the story will be incomplete. Suffolk County Child Services is now investigating Mr. Schuler, to see if he had any role in the events leading up to the crash.
http://nashville.injuryboard.com/au...ui-who-should-we-believe.aspx?googleid=268796
Mr. Schuler has had issues with drinking in the past. In 1995, Mr. Schuler was arrested for DWI. While this was 15 years ago, it certainly hurts his credibility. The five year old survivor may be the only one who will be able to tell investigators what was really going on, but even then, the story will be incomplete. Suffolk County Child Services is now investigating Mr. Schuler, to see if he had any role in the events leading up to the crash.
http://nashville.injuryboard.com/au...ui-who-should-we-believe.aspx?googleid=268796
ElizaAvalon
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I do believe I have heard that several people took the children out of the car and that they were all wearing seatbelts.
I think the initial reports of the children being thrown from the car were from those who arrived after they were taken out. JMO.
Native New Yorker
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http://www.newsday.com/long-island/5-liers-killed-in-ny-parkway-crash-1.1328669?image=3
this clearly says thrown from the car........
Velouria
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Found this article that mention Schuler's admission that his wife smoked pot:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/08072009/news/regionalnews/smashup_dads_183413.htm
And from this article, note excerpt below :
http://gothamist.com/2009/08/07/taconic_crash_moms_family_continues.php
"Barbara did not allow the state police to question Danny Schuler. The state police did say that the nieces' father, Schuler's brother Warren Hance, did speak with them and was cooperative. In the mean time, Suffolk County Child Protective Services is investigating Danny Schuler, based on his admission that his wife smoked pot."
southcitymom
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I've gone back through several of the links - it is reported that they were removed and it is reported that they were thrown, so I don't think we know for certain. I think if they were unbelted, the media would be discussing THAT aspect as well. If I had to guess, I'd say they were belted but some of them may have been thrown due to the sheer force of the collision.
luthersmama
Well-Known Member
I think there are a number of missing pieces to the puzzle. There is about 1 1/2 hour of time unaccounted for. After leaving McD's she should have gotten to the Tappan Zee in about 90 minutes.
Did she visit a fellow camper en route? One who gave her a drink and a smoke?
I agree that it sounds like she was really angry after talking to her brother.
And I wonder if the kids unbuckled themselves because they were trying to escape. An article I saw said that the kids were scattered on the roadway and on the grass.
Did she visit a fellow camper en route? One who gave her a drink and a smoke?
I agree that it sounds like she was really angry after talking to her brother.
And I wonder if the kids unbuckled themselves because they were trying to escape. An article I saw said that the kids were scattered on the roadway and on the grass.
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