8 Die in Crash on Taconic State Parkway

[southcitymom]

Yes, makes perfect sense and entirely possible. But IMO, she was reacting to the alcohol much the way I would and I am an occasional drinker. I don't see evidence yet that this was her MO. It is still striking me as acute rather than chronic. but of course, i don't have all the info yet either.
Either which way she took it in and drove with those kids.

Your thoughts make sense too, of course. My only misgiving concerning this being an acute situation is that I have a hard time believing that a non or occasional drinker could consume that amount of alcohol/pot in that period of time and remain upright. This is a key point that leads me to believe this was a chronic condition.

However, it will always come back to this for any of us - without A LOT of outside information, it is going to be damned near impossible to slip inside her mind and body and know her reactions, her motivations or complete lack thereof.

 

[southcitymom]

LOL Always a delicate area but am finding the studies done on estrogen over the last decade are pretty informative. Well worth reading as a way of understanding ones self or a loved one.

There's no doubt in my mind that estrogen (and testosterone) is a powerful cocktail all on its own!

 

[capoly]

There's no doubt in my mind that estrogen (and testosterone) is a powerful cocktail all on its own!

lol

Women & Alcohol

http://www.brad21.org/alcohol_and_women.html

http://www.brad21.org/bac_charts.html


ETA

BAC calculator
http://www.erie.gov/stopdwi/bac_calculator.asp

 

[tapu]

lol

Women & Alcohol

http://www.brad21.org/alcohol_and_women.html

http://www.brad21.org/bac_charts.html


ETA

BAC calculator
http://www.erie.gov/stopdwi/bac_calculator.asp

Interesting sites. Thank you!

I agree with southcitymom on the idea that the amount of alcohol Diane consumed, and remained conscious on, is indicative of a seasoned alcoholic. My opinion is based on having been one. I would wager that even a casually drinking 280-lb (male) football player in excellent shape would be felled or near-felled by 10 drinks. You gotta build up to that. She was hardcore.

Imagine 10 shots of vodka (or any hard liquor--same thing) in front of you. Now take yourself through 1, 2, 3, and so on. Is that a lot of alcohol or what??

 

[capoly]

Interesting sites. Thank you!

I agree with southcitymom on the idea that the amount of alcohol Diane consumed, and remained conscious on, is indicative of a seasoned alcoholic. My opinion is based on having been one. I would wager that even a casually drinking 280-lb (male) football player in excellent shape would be felled or near-felled by 10 drinks. You gotta build up to that. She was hardcore.

Imagine 10 shots of vodka (or any hard liquor--same thing) in front of you. Now take yourself through 1, 2, 3, and so on. Is that a lot of alcohol or what??

Am just not getting the BAC calculator.....

For me to register 0.19/10 shots I'd have to drink the shots over 11 hours.

So that would tend to validate what you wrote above (in bold) re DS, right? Please correct/explain if I'm doing the BAC wrong.

ETA Forgot calculations re DS

For her to register a 0.19 after 10 shots in (say) 3 hours she would have to weigh approx 200 lbs?

 

[capoly]

I don't mind being asked anything. Cap, I personally can recall times during my many years of using when, during PMS, my chemical use would affect me differently, and I have heard similar stories from other women who are/were problem users/drinkers.

That said, the two or three periods when I was affected differently during THAT year I was hiding my using - I do NOT recall those times having a relation to my menstrual cycle.

[my bold]

Thank you or that information, southcitymom. I misread the initial article as the peak estrogen time is mid-cycle. Would you mind giving your approx age at the time of hiding use?

It is really sad to read of the increase of alcohol abuse and young women. Did you read of the 15yo killed by a woman DWI (she also had her young child in the car)?

 

[southcitymom]

[my bold]

Thank you or that information, southcitymom. I misread the initial article as the peak estrogen time is mid-cycle. Would you mind giving your approx age at the time of hiding use?

It is really sad to read of the increase of alcohol abuse and young women. Did you read of the 15yo killed by a woman DWI (she also had her young child in the car)?

I was hiding my using when I was 35.

 

[VCDaedalus]

Here's another thought: could she have been taking Tylenol for the pain in her mouth, without realizing that you can easily take too much if you don't know it's possible? The symptoms of acetominophen overdose can take 12 hours to show up.

Also, acetominophen is hepatotoxic--so the same organ that would metabolize alcohol could have been compromised by taking Tylenol constantly over a period of a week or so. Maybe at that point, drinking her usual amount had a different effect.

Some of the symptoms of acetominophen toxicity are confusion and irritability.

I have never seen an autopsy that ever addressed anything but illegal drugs or prescription drugs that are classified as drugs of abuse, i.e., marijuana, PCP, methamphetamine, cocaine, barbiturates, opiates.

I have never read of an autopsy that mentioned any blood level of legal OTC or prescription drugs. That these drugs aren't mentioned in an investigation may be because taking any legal drug as prescribed cannot be considered as constituting fault, so why test for Lipitor or Prevacid or Tylenol? Or HRT, for that matter. So if that isn't mentioned it may not be because she didn't have prescription drugs or Tylenol in her system. Such drugs may be considered officially irrelevant to the investigation.

 

[MaryLiz]

I've been lurking on here too every day and only posted once on this thread last week. I just have a hard time believing someone who was a closet drinker, and was used to hiding her addiction so well that NO ONE is coming forth saying that she had a drinking problem, would just suddenly lose control like she did. That's why I asked in my post last week if possibly the pot could have been laced with something. I don't believe it was after I received a reply about it, but I just cannot figure out what caused her to lose control like that. I'm so haunted by the image of the niece telling her Dad that "something is wrong with Aunt Diane" and imagining how terrified she was, not to mention the rest of the kids. I'm not trying to excuse what DS did at all..I know test results don't lie, but it's just so baffling. I don't believe either if she had taken a lot of Tylenol or Advil, that that would have contributed to her losing control. If she had taken a huge amount of an OTC pain reliever, combined with the pot and alcohol, it probably would have made her just pass out. The only thing I can think of that she might have taken that MAY have made her react like that, is an OTC cold remedy with pseudoephedrine or another antihistamine in it. They can sometimes react on your central nervous system even if you don't take anything else with it. MAYBE something like that combined with pot and vodka could make you lose it like she did. But most of those you have to get from behind the pharmacy counter and sign for and there's no evidence she did that, I don't think. This one really has me scratching my head.

southcitymom...I wish you continued success as well. You've been very brave sharing your story with everyone on here. My late brother was addicted to alcohol but you would never have known it to look at him. He hid his addiction very well. Congratulations on your sobriety!

 

[luthersmama]

I had a new thought.

I wonder if she had developed a phobia of bridges? There are some bridges that really, really bother me to cross. I have only been on the Tappen Zee a couple of times, but I can imagine that someone could have a phobia of using it.

Maybe she needed the toke to get across the bridge?

 

[capoly]

B. Drug Impact on Driving Skills

1. Impairment is related to alcohol, in terms of its concentration in the blood stream.

2. The brain's control of eye movements is highly vulnerable to alcohol. It only takes low to moderate blood alcohol concentrations (.03 to .05%) to interfere with voluntary eye movements and impair the eyes' ability to rapidly track a moving target.

3. Steering an automobile is adversely affected by alcohol, as alcohol affects eye-to-hand reaction times, which are superimposed upon the visual effects. Significant impairment and deterioration of steering ability begin at approximately .03 to .04% Blood Alcohol Concentrations and continue to deteriorate as Blood Alcohol Concentration rises.

4. Almost every aspect of the brain's information-processing ability is impaired by alcohol. Alcohol-impaired drivers require more time to read street signs or respond to traffic signals than unimpaired drivers. Research on the effects of alcohol on the performance of automobile and aircraft operators shows a narrowing of the attention field beginning at .04% blood alcohol concentration.

C. Dividing Attention Among Component Skills

1. Most sensitive aspect of the driving performance.

2. Component skills involve maintaining the vehicle in the proper lane and direction (tracking task), while monitoring the environment for vital safety information, i.e. other vehicles, traffic signs, and pedestrians.

3. Alcohol-impaired drivers who are required to divide their attention between two tasks tend to favor just one task. Often times the favored task is concentrating on steering while becoming less vigilant with respect to other safety information.


http://www.padui.org/effect.htm

 

[capoly]

Here's another thought: could she have been taking Tylenol for the pain in her mouth, without realizing that you can easily take too much if you don't know it's possible? The symptoms of acetominophen overdose can take 12 hours to show up.

Also, acetominophen is hepatotoxic--so the same organ that would metabolize alcohol could have been compromised by taking Tylenol constantly over a period of a week or so. Maybe at that point, drinking her usual amount had a different effect.

Some of the symptoms of acetominophen toxicity are confusion and irritability.

I have never seen an autopsy that ever addressed anything but illegal drugs or prescription drugs that are classified as drugs of abuse, i.e., marijuana, PCP, methamphetamine, cocaine, barbiturates, opiates.

I have never read of an autopsy that mentioned any blood level of legal OTC or prescription drugs. That these drugs aren't mentioned in an investigation may be because taking any legal drug as prescribed cannot be considered as constituting fault, so why test for Lipitor or Prevacid or Tylenol? Or HRT, for that matter. So if that isn't mentioned it may not be because she didn't have prescription drugs or Tylenol in her system. Such drugs may be considered officially irrelevant to the investigation.

I can't find the url for this info but it seems alcohol can destroy the special capsule used for OTC time released pain medications resulting in multiple doses bring absorbed as one. In some cases the med taken increased alcohol absorption (think NSAIDS were most likely to have this affect). Will look for url again.

Though no matter what OTC was taken (if any) DS was still a DWI....this is however imo good information for many to be aware of.

 

[MeoW333]

I have been lurking on this thread since this happened, and have responded only once, but I feel compelled to write again.

I Still have a hard time believing she was purposely drunk. I understand that the toxicology report cannot be disputed, nor can I offer a reason or a solution, but something here is just not right. :waitasec:

The things that don't make sense to me are: the level of impaired judgment, the obvious mania that she exhibited on the road, and the phone call to her brother. It also doesn't make sense that if she had a drinking problem that the husband knew about, why isn't he coming out and saying it quietly and going back in to hide? Why is he trying to make the investigation and everything around it (including his wife and child's deaths) painful and longer/more drawn-out?

Many of you are offering personal stories (unbelievably brave!) and theories that help us piece together this horrible tragedy. The one thing someone mentioned that stuck out to me is: if she did have a drinking problem, why would she phone her brother for help? Someone mentioned that a closet alcoholic would never draw attention to it, or that they don't think they need help or they are "ok to drive". Superhuman even, like, "I got this".

I feel that she didn't know what was wrong. I feel that maybe she didn't know she was drunk. Could she have been drugged?

I am sorry but I'm still not convinced.:twocents:

I think the husband may be afraid to talk as there are going to be civil lawsuits..

 

[buffetoflies]

What I want to know is wtf they mean by the lump in her leg was moving. WTF?!? Lumps don't move!

 

[grace60]

I'd like to thank all the lurkers for commenting. It's not easy to come out but remember we don't need dates, places, lots of personal details, ages, or sex, etc. If any lurkers can add anything that might make sense of this please come out and tell us. You may be able to help stop something like this in the future. That was my goal of telling about my sibling who was a drunk driver and killed innocent people. I realized no matter who you see is drunk/drugged driving or acting drunk/drugged get them off the road. I'd turn my father in if I knew he was driving drunk.

 

[azwriter]

I watched the press conference featuring her husband and his strange attorney a week after the crash.
The attorney ticked off a list of physical problems this woman had at the time and her husband nodded in agreement as the list went on.
If this husband knew she had all of these problems - diabetics, a lump on her leg and the infected tooth, why the hell did he allow her to drive that distance with all of the children? To me, it sounds as if he should have been driving everyone - her and the children. Or made some type of arrangements to keep her from behind the wheel if she was suffering from all these ailments. Instead of going on his way to a fishing trip, he should have been responsible for getting everyone home safely. You don't kiss a sick wife goodbye and watch her drive off for a four hour drive.
Sorry, he can't have it both ways - knowing her physical problems ahead of time and then claiming she wasn't drunk and high but suffering from other problems. He certainly dropped the ball when it came to taking care of his family and his nieces.

 

[SuziQ]

FWIW and as far as I've heard there was no medical reason for this and nothing besides pot and alcohol showed up in the tox screen. No otc meds, no cold meds no Tylenol no anything. And I'm pretty sure the attorney would be throwing that out to the media if there was anything besides liquor and pot on the tox screen. The best he's been able to come up with so far is Anbesol to explain the alcohol on the tox screen.

 

[capoly]

FWIW and as far as I've heard there was no medical reason for this and nothing besides pot and alcohol showed up in the tox screen. No otc meds, no cold meds no Tylenol no anything. And I'm pretty sure the attorney would be throwing that out to the media if there was anything besides liquor and pot on the tox screen. The best he's been able to come up with so far is Anbesol to explain the alcohol on the tox screen.

While I agree with you on this also feel there is some good information coming out on this thread regarding OTCs and alcohol (as well as others sharing their experiences with alcohol). Since Diane is deceased there will likely be no criminal action. We just don't know, and likely will never know, what occurred so can't really discard possibilities.

imo discussion here, any new bit of knowledge gained here, honors the children and gentlemen that died.

 

[Melanie]

While the blurb below relates to alcohol and breast cancer, the inter-actions of alcohol and estrogen is what I found of interest.



ALCOHOL AND BREAST CANCER Alcohol may effect the way estrogen is secreted and broken down. As I mentioned earlier, estrogen in our bodies makes us absorb alcohol more readily and break it down less. At the same rate, alcohol affects how estrogen is secreted and broken down. Thus, by drinking alcohol your estrogen levels will increase significantly both pre-menopausally and post-menopausally. As a result, after you drink you get spurts of estrogen that can be as high as 300 percent within 30 minutes of consumption. This is similar to the spurt of estrogen just prior to ovulation and may be responsible for a breast cancer-promoting effect. In other words, there¹s one thing to have a constant amount of estrogen and occasionally have a rise before you ovulate, but if you get these rises in estrogen every time you drink, this may potentiate breast cancer.
ALCOHOL, BIRTH CONTROL AND HORMONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY Women taking birth control pills or Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) really need to be aware that not only will they absorb alcohol better but it will stay in their bodies longer. If you go back and look at the long-running Framingham study, which showed an increase in breast cancer by over 50 percent in the women who had just three drinks a week, you start to understand why, perhaps, breast cancer increased. That same study is used by many experts to scare off women from using estrogen replacement, as it showed an increase of breast cancer ‹ 41 percent in women who took estrogen. However, if you look at the study, this 41 percent increase was not found in women who did not consume alcohol. So, perhaps when they go around saying that estrogen replacement increases breast cancer, it may only occur if you drink. We know that estrogen increases after we drink, estrogen is linked to breast cancer and estrogen is linked to breast cancer more often with women who drink.


http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/fst/faculty/acree/fs430/notes_thk/03wine&women.html

Thank you SO much for this information. I'm on HRT after a HYS in December, and had no idea. I've learned, though, that my desire to drink alcohol has decreased. I wonder if the HRT has anything to do with that. In any case, the article makes much sense. I think I best make an appt. for a mammogram soon (it's been a year).

Thanks for enlightining women - you may just save a life.

Mel

 

[SuziQ]

While I agree with you on this also feel there is some good information coming out on this thread regarding OTCs and alcohol (as well as others sharing their experiences with alcohol). Since Diane is deceased there will likely be no criminal action. We just don't know, and likely will never know, what occurred so can't really discard possibilities.

imo discussion here, any new bit of knowledge gained here, honors the children and gentlemen that died.

ITA with you on getting information out there, especially with OTC's since my husband died, at xmas at 35yrs old, as a result of an adverse reaction to Tylenol (Acetaminophen). I spent over 7 years fighting to get information out about it. I finally got justice a couple of months ago when the FDA changed how Acetaminophen products will be sold. BTW, I also meant to state earlier that Acetaminophen poisoning shows up on a liver slide as a distinct almond shaped pattern. That would have shown up in the autopsy as well.

Maybe I'm not getting how something that's not in a tox screen could be a factor in this case?