8 Die in Crash on Taconic State Parkway

[JBean]

Aug 5, 2009 10:01 am US/Eastern
snipped

Police announced during an afternoon news conference that Schuler had a blood alcohol content of .19 and had six grams of alcohol in her stomach that had not been metabolized. The legal BAC limit in New York is .08.

"With that level of alcohol, she would have had difficulty with perception, with her judgment, with her memory," said Betsy Spratt, Director of Toxicology for Westchester County. "Around that level of alcohol you'll also get what's called 'tunnel vision' where your perception is changed so you can't see peripherally all the time depending the tolerance that she has to alcohol."

Officials also said they recovered a broken 1.75 liter bottle of vodka in Schuler's vehicle.

The toxicology report also found that 113 nanograms per milliliter of THC, the main substance found in marijuana, was measured in her bloodstream. Spratt said that amount indicates Schuler had smoked marijuana within a period of 15 minutes to an hour before the crash.
http://wcbstv.com/topstories/taconic.state.parkway.2.1114132.html

This is exactly the information I have been wondering about. Schuler was experiencing those symptoms, so it would make the effects of her alcohol consumption more in line with those of a non-alcoholic or a non drinking recovering alcoholic wouldn't it? IOW, if she were a " practicing" alcoholic then she would not have been as impaired as a non alcoholic.
I know it is all about personal tolerance and it is impossible to answer this question at this time.But these symptoms sound like exactly what was happening to her and I do not think they were describing the effects of a "functioning alcoholic".

This sounds much more acute than chronic to me which lends credibility to the family members being surprised that she was drunk. Sounds like she fell off the wagon in a big way or randomly decided to take up drinking to the extreme that day.
But I am still amazed that there is not one person to date that has offered up any information about her drinking problem. I understand all about closet drinkers, but at some point, some time, some where someone knows a little something. maybe that will be her dh. don't know.

 

[SuziQ]

So if she decided to go on a sudden bender that day, what would cause that? Putting myself in her shoes and thinking about what would prompt me to start slugging liquor down knowing I had five kids in the car and a long drive ahead of me. Sudden and very bad news might do it.

 

[JBean]

So if she decided to go on a sudden bender that day, what would cause that? Putting myself in her shoes and thinking about what would prompt me to start slugging liquor down knowing I had five kids in the car and a long drive ahead of me. Sudden and very bad news might do it.

That is the heart of the matter imo. Chronic or acute there had to have been a critical trigger for this. Which brings us back to square one.

 

[southcitymom]

That is the heart of the matter imo. Chronic or acute there had to have been a critical trigger for this. Which brings us back to square one.

I disagree that there had to be a critical trigger for this. It is just as easy to assume that the amount she consumed that day was a "normal amount for her" and it affected her in a different way.

When I shared my experience of having to pull over and throw up while transporting children it was, in part, to point out that I hadn't consumed any more on the couple of days I had to do that than I usually consumed - it just affected me differently on those days and made me feel unusually sick. Had I crashed because of my inebriation, large quantities of chemicals would have been found in my blood, but for me, it was not a large amount, but a normal amount - does that make sense?

 

[justathought]

South City Mom, when you say affected you differently. I know exactly what you mean....when I realized I could no longer predict how I would function with alcohol....that's when I quit drinking. Sometimes I could drink three bourbon and diet cokes and be fine. Over a period of time, I realized that on occasion with three or maybe four drinks I was out of it. After the third time that happened that was in the end of it for me. Alcohol had become a problem. However, as much as I drank, more daily than quantity, never in a million years could I have drunk the equivalent of 10 drinks and been standing even out in a bar and dancing the night away..... Now vodka wasn't ever my drink of choice...couldn't stand it..so can't speak to it. Marijuana just always made me deathly ill..so never did it after the first couple of tries...what a blessing!!!

For the life of me, I can't decide whether she was a closet drinker (pretty much like I was) or just went on a sudden binge. The only simple explanation I can fathom. Is that she bought a large orange juice, was pouring the vodka in it and somehow sloshed more in there than she intended. She was back on the road so she just kept drinking it.

The tooth thing...that can be painful. But why wouldn't she go to a dentist? Was money that tight?. Fear of dentists? I know several people who put off dental care....it troubles me. Dentist are overpriced even with insurance and it's stressful...but somethings you just have to do. So maybe that's a lesson for us to learn here as well.

 

[Trino]

Hi :blowkiss:

The autopsy also found a “high level” — 113 nanograms per milliliter — of tetrahydrocannabinol, the main psychoactive substance in marijuana, he said.

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2...-killed-8-was-drunk-officials-say/?hp&apage=9


Does appear though that chronic users have high levels to start when compared to non-users/occasional users. Here's the abstract from a newer study.


Temporal indication of marijuana use can be estimated from plasma and urine concentrations of delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol, 11-hydroxy-delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol, and 11-nor-delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol-9-carboxylic acid.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11599597?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=3&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed

Aside from the alcohol injestion, most everyone knows the smell of marijuana. Hard to believe that her husband smelled nothing. Who would allow children to be driven around after someone smoked a joint?

 

[Wonder]

I disagree that there had to be a critical trigger for this. It is just as easy to assume that the amount she consumed that day was a "normal amount for her" and it affected her in a different way.

When I shared my experience of having to pull over and throw up while transporting children it was, in part, to point out that I hadn't consumed any more on the couple of days I had to do that than I usually consumed - it just affected me differently on those days and made me feel unusually sick. Had I crashed because of my inebriation, large quantities of chemicals would have been found in my blood, but for me, it was not a large amount, but a normal amount - does that make sense?

Yes it makes sense - thank you for sharing your experience. I now understand why maybe there was not a critical trigger.

I do understand (based on my own experience), a large amount for some would be a normal amount for me.

 

[JBean]

I disagree that there had to be a critical trigger for this. It is just as easy to assume that the amount she consumed that day was a "normal amount for her" and it affected her in a different way.

When I shared my experience of having to pull over and throw up while transporting children it was, in part, to point out that I hadn't consumed any more on the couple of days I had to do that than I usually consumed - it just affected me differently on those days and made me feel unusually sick. Had I crashed because of my inebriation, large quantities of chemicals would have been found in my blood, but for me, it was not a large amount, but a normal amount - does that make sense?

Yes, makes perfect sense and entirely possible. But IMO, she was reacting to the alcohol much the way I would and I am an occasional drinker. I don't see evidence yet that this was her MO. It is still striking me as acute rather than chronic. but of course, i don't have all the info yet either.
Either which way she took it in and drove with those kids.

 

[arielilane]

I’m sure the stress was there having the duty to get the children home. However, she was probably ticked that your husband is off going on his merry way with his best friend (dog) doing what he loves best and not having any thoughts other than how many fish he will catch that day.

I believe that a lot of responsibility was on DS’s shoulders during the marriage. Probably why she drank and smoked to extremes. It was something that she could control and no one else's business. Her husband worked evenings so she was the caretaker. A lot for someone who held the day job that she did and to come home just to do it again. That was how she handled your issues….drink it away.

It was not her first time (or was she an occasional user) when someone has that much alcohol in their system and then to have pot as well. It was her habit (whether anyone knows or not). It is what it is.
Maybe her husband didn't know. Unfortunately, we all know... jmo

 

[arielilane]

I disagree that there had to be a critical trigger for this. It is just as easy to assume that the amount she consumed that day was a "normal amount for her" and it affected her in a different way.

When I shared my experience of having to pull over and throw up while transporting children it was, in part, to point out that I hadn't consumed any more on the couple of days I had to do that than I usually consumed - it just affected me differently on those days and made me feel unusually sick. Had I crashed because of my inebriation, large quantities of chemicals would have been found in my blood, but for me, it was not a large amount, but a normal amount - does that make sense?

Yes, scm, it makes sense and thank God you sobered up! I wish you well on your road to recovery.

 

[MrsG728]

I have been lurking on this thread since this happened, and have responded only once, but I feel compelled to write again.

I Still have a hard time believing she was purposely drunk. I understand that the toxicology report cannot be disputed, nor can I offer a reason or a solution, but something here is just not right. :waitasec:

The things that don't make sense to me are: the level of impaired judgment, the obvious mania that she exhibited on the road, and the phone call to her brother. It also doesn't make sense that if she had a drinking problem that the husband knew about, why isn't he coming out and saying it quietly and going back in to hide? Why is he trying to make the investigation and everything around it (including his wife and child's deaths) painful and longer/more drawn-out?

Many of you are offering personal stories (unbelievably brave!) and theories that help us piece together this horrible tragedy. The one thing someone mentioned that stuck out to me is: if she did have a drinking problem, why would she phone her brother for help? Someone mentioned that a closet alcoholic would never draw attention to it, or that they don't think they need help or they are "ok to drive". Superhuman even, like, "I got this".

I feel that she didn't know what was wrong. I feel that maybe she didn't know she was drunk. Could she have been drugged?

I am sorry but I'm still not convinced.:twocents:

 

[capoly]

Aside from the alcohol injestion, most everyone knows the smell of marijuana. Hard to believe that her husband smelled nothing. Who would allow children to be driven around after someone smoked a joint?

Think he said she used it at night for sleep. Perhaps he did believe she was a 'responsible' user. Did wonder why no one at the campground smelled it if she used the night before. That stuff can be smelled a mile away....


Also re smells, if DS was even a closet vodka drinker one would think her husband would of smelled that peculiar odor when walking into his bedroom after work etc. That stuff lets off some weird but distinguishable odor.

 

[zippitydoda]

I can't fathom the act of putting children in a van, starting the engine and then drinking. I can't. And sometimes my inability to do this makes me think just a bit, a wee bit, that she could have never purposely done this.

But, we read everyday sickening stories of adults putting children in harms way. Just imagine the worst thing you could do to a innocent child and some adults have done it. It could simply be that she was selfish jerk, who put her needs above those of these children, and everyone else on the road that day, and they all paid the greatest price for it. For whatever reason, on this day, she choose to drink heavely while driving these children. 1 drink or 10 drinks, its inexuseable.

She could have said to someone in her group at the campground - No I can't drive back today, I don't feel good, someone else has got to do it. There were many adults - I can't imagine a situation were she was forced to drive them. There appears to have been other options.

 

[Bobbisangel]

Aside from the alcohol injestion, most everyone knows the smell of marijuana. Hard to believe that her husband smelled nothing. Who would allow children to be driven around after someone smoked a joint?

Her husband wouldn't have known that she was smoking pot on the drive home. The report said that she had smoked it 15 mins to an hour before the accident. The drive home was a four hr drive and so I am assuming that she had driven for at least an hour before she wrecked. Her husband did say that she smokes pot but he wouldn't have known that she smoked it and drove that day.

I would think that she smoked some pot when they made one of their stops. If she had smoked it in the car with the kids they might not have known what caused the smell but they would probably have wanted to know what stunk in the car. The smell would also have clung to the kids hair and probably to their clothing. Her brother probably wouldn't have liked that. That is why I think she smoked it at one of her stops.

 

[capoly]

I disagree that there had to be a critical trigger for this. It is just as easy to assume that the amount she consumed that day was a "normal amount for her" and it affected her in a different way.

When I shared my experience of having to pull over and throw up while transporting children it was, in part, to point out that I hadn't consumed any more on the couple of days I had to do that than I usually consumed - it just affected me differently on those days and made me feel unusually sick. Had I crashed because of my inebriation, large quantities of chemicals would have been found in my blood, but for me, it was not a large amount, but a normal amount - does that make sense?

Please accept my apology if you feel this is inappropriate to ask but by any slim chance do you recall if the times you were affected differently by alcohol occurred during premenstrual times?

 

[tapu]

Hoo boy. :wink:

 

[capoly]

Hoo boy. :wink:

LOL Always a delicate area but am finding the studies done on estrogen over the last decade are pretty informative. Well worth reading as a way of understanding ones self or a loved one.

 

[capoly]

While the blurb below relates to alcohol and breast cancer, the inter-actions of alcohol and estrogen is what I found of interest.



ALCOHOL AND BREAST CANCER Alcohol may effect the way estrogen is secreted and broken down. As I mentioned earlier, estrogen in our bodies makes us absorb alcohol more readily and break it down less. At the same rate, alcohol affects how estrogen is secreted and broken down. Thus, by drinking alcohol your estrogen levels will increase significantly both pre-menopausally and post-menopausally. As a result, after you drink you get spurts of estrogen that can be as high as 300 percent within 30 minutes of consumption. This is similar to the spurt of estrogen just prior to ovulation and may be responsible for a breast cancer-promoting effect. In other words, there¹s one thing to have a constant amount of estrogen and occasionally have a rise before you ovulate, but if you get these rises in estrogen every time you drink, this may potentiate breast cancer.
ALCOHOL, BIRTH CONTROL AND HORMONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY Women taking birth control pills or Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) really need to be aware that not only will they absorb alcohol better but it will stay in their bodies longer. If you go back and look at the long-running Framingham study, which showed an increase in breast cancer by over 50 percent in the women who had just three drinks a week, you start to understand why, perhaps, breast cancer increased. That same study is used by many experts to scare off women from using estrogen replacement, as it showed an increase of breast cancer ‹ 41 percent in women who took estrogen. However, if you look at the study, this 41 percent increase was not found in women who did not consume alcohol. So, perhaps when they go around saying that estrogen replacement increases breast cancer, it may only occur if you drink. We know that estrogen increases after we drink, estrogen is linked to breast cancer and estrogen is linked to breast cancer more often with women who drink.


http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/fst/faculty/acree/fs430/notes_thk/03wine&women.html

 

[southcitymom]

Yes, scm, it makes sense and thank God you sobered up! I wish you well on your road to recovery.

Thanks, arielilane!

 

[southcitymom]

Please accept my apology if you feel this is inappropriate to ask but by any slim chance do you recall if the times you were affected differently by alcohol occurred during premenstrual times?

I don't mind being asked anything. Cap, I personally can recall times during my many years of using when, during PMS, my chemical use would affect me differently, and I have heard similar stories from other women who are/were problem users/drinkers.

That said, the two or three periods when I was affected differently during THAT year I was hiding my using - I do NOT recall those times having a relation to my menstrual cycle.