8 Die in Crash on Taconic State Parkway

[capoly]

I think if she was in a black-out, which I believe to be the right terminology?,
that her alcoholism, must have been quite advanced.

I don't know the answer to this...do heavy drinkers have functional black-outs? I didn't think so.


Southcity mom, you are one courages person to share your story so openly
with the rest of us. It is hard for some to understand but for us to keep our sobriety, we have to share our knowledge of alcoholism and our past in order
to remain sober ourselves and yet we risk losing the esteem of some posters to do that. thank-you

Can't speak for others but imo..... southcitymom and many others (including you) have stripped their souls naked in this thread for the sake, and with the hope, that one life may hear and others lives may be saved.

imo that shows a strong and trusting self esteem which in the long run makes us all feel better, be better, no matter what our issue in life may be.

Hope this makes sense....does in my head but that's not always a reliable determinant lol

 

[Steve2010]

I was and google earth views of the intersection,just looking at bingmaps of the intersection where she turned left. Is it just me or are there any markings that this is a "do not enter" situation? Around here there are huge DO NOT ENTER signs on either side of the road. in the map I am looking at I can see on sign way to the left and i assume it says something, but man this looks like people would possibly turn on this all day long.
So locals, is this as dangerous as it looks?

If you look at this video link from page 7, post #162 from ElizaAvilon, it appears that there is only one "Do Not Enter" sign on one side of the road, and a "One Way" sign on both sides. I wouldn't think that you would be easily fooled into making this left turn - especially if you're drunk. From both the video and google earth images of the intersection, I don't think this intersection really grabs your attention when your coming up on it from the direction she came from.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQAZ_cLylJA"]YouTube - Taconic Wrong Way Tragedy - fatal drive recreation[/COLO"]YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.[/nomedia]

 

[pudd]

It's done all the time in these parts. LOL

Hey RR, and others who posted, no hard feelings? I *seriously* cannot understand that sort of "fun" (lol) but it's great that you do it! And I honestly don't know anyone who camps for such short periods such a distance away, so I was genuinely curious. You guys have fun on your next trip, and drive home safely! :blowkiss:

 

[capoly]

State police interview husband of wrong-way Taconic Parkway driver

......A private investigator hired by Schuler's husband, Tom Rushkin, told the New York Times on its Web site Friday that he was at the meeting, and that their main goal in the interview had been to try to recreate a timeline of the events before the crash.

He said he also gave a copy of a video from a Sunoco convenience store in Liberty, N.Y., that shows Diane Schuler putting gas in the minivan and asking a clerk for pain relievers.

"She did not stagger. She did not sway," said Paul Stock, the district manager for the company that owns the convenience store.


http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/08/state_police_interview_husband.html

 

[capoly]

If you look at this video link from page 7, post #162 from ElizaAvilon, it appears that there is only one "Do Not Enter" sign on one side of the road, and a "One Way" sign on both sides. I wouldn't think that you would be easily fooled into making this left turn - especially if you're drunk. From both the video and google earth images of the intersection, I don't think this intersection really grabs your attention when your coming up on it from the direction she came from.

YouTube - Taconic Wrong Way Tragedy - fatal drive recreation[/COLO"]YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Darn clever way to make the video.

ETA Looks like if she had entered from north so making a right turn signs wouldn't have been in focus. Though as has been noted previously, signs likely wouldn't of mattered.

 

[Steve2010]

ETA Looks like if she had entered from north so making a right turn signs wouldn't have been in focus. Though as has been noted previously, signs likely wouldn't of mattered.

I believe that she entered by taking a left. She was heading North on Pleasantville Road and turned west onto the OFF ramp.

 

[capoly]

I believe that she entered by taking a left. She was heading North on Pleasantville Road and turned west onto the OFF ramp.

Has her exact route been established? Unless witnesses have come forward that saw her on Saw Mill River Pwky, was under the impression that the reenactment route given by police was speculative based on time frame fitting between verifiable location near Tarrytown exit and site of accident.

ETA
Police try to retrace Diane Schuler’s route
http://www.newsday.com/long-island/police-try-to-retrace-diane-schuler-s-route-1.1339067

 

[southcitymom]

It is positively frightening. There are lots of trees camouflaging the freeway and i see only one sign that presumably says do not enter it is set off the road. Like I said, what i am used to are HUGE signs that sit right on top of the road entrance, not off on a shoulder but in your face. often two on top each other and on both sides of the entrance/exit. I have an arrow pointing to what I assume is a Do Not Enter sign.

I think it was Capoly that posted earlier that she may have thought she was turning somewhere else due to her stupor. I totally get that.


Southcitymom if you are here, what do you think about her level of functionality as compared to the amount of alcohol she had ingested?

Signwise, I can't speak to this area specifically, but I did want to say that here in Atlanta, MANY of the signs (DO NOT ENTER and others) are crazy confusing even when you are stone cold sober.

Do y'all recall that bus of students from the midwest in Atlanta about a year ago where the driver thought he was still in an HOV lane on the interestate but he was in an exit lane - he drove straight over the bridge and off of it back down onto the highway and crashed, killing 6 or 7 people? I had no trouble understanding how that happened - the signs are nuts - some hidden, some just plain confusing...

Bean - regarding functionality and amount of alcohol consumed - this is an impossible determination to make unless we know what kind of drinker she was prior to this incident. I firmly believe that someone who wasn't a regular (alcoholic-level) drinker could NOT consume what she consumed without being puking drunk or passed out. But, an alcoholic could surely function with that level of liquor in them.

At this point, I think she was drunker than she thought she was or even intended to be, but functioning (ie not puking or passed out or in a complete blackout), and also confused and frightened that her brother was en route. I think she took a wrong turn onto the Taconic and then was trying to go slow and steady and had no idea she was going the wrong way. I think she was concentrating on getting home, getting her stuff together to act sober and was on automatic pilot when she got on the Taconic.

 

[southcitymom]

Wrong Way signs added to Taconic crash ramp

http://lohud.com/article/20090807/NEWS02/908070393/-1/SPORTS


ETA Haven't heard much on this......
5 hurt in earlier wrong-way Taconic crash
July 27, 2009
Michael Miksad, 25, was due for arraignment in Kent Town Court yesterday on a misdemeanor DWI charge and several vehicle and traffic violations. The crash was one of two wrong-way cases on the Taconic yesterday - one later in the day in Briarcliff Manor killed eight people, four of them children. A fifth child was in critical condition.


http://www.lohud.com/article/20090727/NEWS04/907270329

Excellent find - I'm not surprised that there had been some other faulty entrances at this intersection.

 

[southcitymom]

I think if she was in a black-out, which I believe to be the right terminology?,
that her alcoholism, must have been quite advanced.

I don't know the answer to this...do heavy drinkers have functional black-outs? I didn't think so.


Southcity mom, you are one courages person to share your story so openly
with the rest of us. It is hard for some to understand but for us to keep our sobriety, we have to share our knowledge of alcoholism and our past in order
to remain sober ourselves and yet we risk losing the esteem of some posters to do that. thank-you

Delaney, :blowkiss:

I'm with you and I don't believe there is such a thing as a functional blackout. I've only had one in my life and didn't remember a thing. I've spoken with lots of people who have had them and it's always the same - no memory whatsoever of the blackout period or periods. I was talking about "automatic pilot" - which happens to us all in some form or fashion.

I've never had any problem sharing about my struggles with addiction on Websleuths - everyone here has only been very kind and respectful to me about my journey with that. One of the things I love about this place is that many feel safe enough to share real, sometimes painful and not always positive, pieces of their lives. I am honored to post and share with people like that.

You are also right that talking honestly about it keeps the horror of it alive for me and reminds me of why I don't ever want to go back to that again...which, ironically, is easy to forget when you get some time clean and sober!

 

[azwriter]

Signwise, I can't speak to this area specifically, but I did want to say that here in Atlanta, MANY of the signs (DO NOT ENTER and others) are crazy confusing even when you are stone cold sober.

Do y'all recall that bus of students from the midwest in Atlanta about a year ago where the driver thought he was still in an HOV lane on the interestate but he was in an exit lane - he drove straight over the bridge and off of it back down onto the highway and crashed, killing 6 or 7 people? I had no trouble understanding how that happened - the signs are nuts - some hidden, some just plain confusing...

Bean - regarding functionality and amount of alcohol consumed - this is an impossible determination to make unless we know what kind of drinker she was prior to this incident. I firmly believe that someone who wasn't a regular (alcoholic-level) drinker could NOT consume what she consumed without being puking drunk or passed out. But, an alcoholic could surely function with that level of liquor in them.

At this point, I think she was drunker than she thought she was or even intended to be, but functioning (ie not puking or passed out or in a complete blackout), and also confused and frightened that her brother was en route. I think she took a wrong turn onto the Taconic and then was trying to go slow and steady and had no idea she was going the wrong way. I think she was concentrating on getting home, getting her stuff together to act sober and was on automatic pilot when she got on the Taconic.

Am I correct in assuming she knew this route and driven it before? Thanks for answering.

 

[Wonder]

State police interview husband of wrong-way Taconic Parkway driver

......A private investigator hired by Schuler's husband, Tom Rushkin, told the New York Times on its Web site Friday that he was at the meeting, and that their main goal in the interview had been to try to recreate a timeline of the events before the crash.

He said he also gave a copy of a video from a Sunoco convenience store in Liberty, N.Y., that shows Diane Schuler putting gas in the minivan and asking a clerk for pain relievers.

"She did not stagger. She did not sway," said Paul Stock, the district manager for the company that owns the convenience store.

Questions:
What time was the video? Before or after the MacDonalds stop? That would have been 3-4 hours before the accident -- long before.........too early to be staggering (yet).

I doubt the Schuler's hired investigator is looking at vodka purchases at Liquor Stores on the way...............................which he should be.....to get to the truth.

Where is the unaccounted time? between what areas?

PS Thanks for the maps - they were very helpful!!

 

[azwriter]

I lived in Ga, even though you can't buy booze on Sundays in a store (only drinks in a restaurant after noon) there is still a drive through Liquor store at the lake!

In NC where I live, the State run ABC ONLY sells liquor Mon-Sat (no mixers, beer or wine). You have to go to the ABC for your evil, then a convenience store or grocery store for your mixers wine and beer (which you CAN buy on Sunday).

My SIL lives in Phoenix, where it is one stop shopping at the grocery store!

In Phoenix and surrounding cities, there's a block of time on Sunday mornings when you can't buy liquor. The aise is actually roped off in stores I think until 10 a.m. Sundays. Seems so silly.

 

[azwriter]

You can buy it at grocery stores and some convenience stores here in Maine. I think in Mass you have to go to a "package store," or "packy." Which, come to think of it, is a NY expression, I believe.... NYers, is that how it works there?

In Arizona you can purchase liquor, beer and wine in drug stores, convenience and grocery stores. There's a block on sales only on Sunday mornings, I think until 10 a.m.

 

[southcitymom]

Am I correct in assuming she knew this route and driven it before? Thanks for answering.

I think this was not a route she had taken MUCH, if at all, before. No one knows for sure, but it seems that she took a sort of meandering route to the Taconic (after the phone call with her brother). I believe it was capoly who posited that perhaps she thought she was getting onto the Taconic from a different exit- I cannot recall cap's post number or the specifics - but it made sense when I read it and looked at the overview of the area.

 

[southcitymom]

State police interview husband of wrong-way Taconic Parkway driver

......A private investigator hired by Schuler's husband, Tom Rushkin, told the New York Times on its Web site Friday that he was at the meeting, and that their main goal in the interview had been to try to recreate a timeline of the events before the crash.

He said he also gave a copy of a video from a Sunoco convenience store in Liberty, N.Y., that shows Diane Schuler putting gas in the minivan and asking a clerk for pain relievers.

"She did not stagger. She did not sway," said Paul Stock, the district manager for the company that owns the convenience store.

Questions:
What time was the video? Before or after the MacDonalds stop? That would have been 3-4 hours before the accident -- long before.........too early to be staggering (yet).

I doubt the Schuler's hired investigator is looking at vodka purchases at Liquor Stores on the way...............................which he should be.....to get to the truth.

Where is the unaccounted time? between what areas?

PS Thanks for the maps - they were very helpful!!

Hey wonder,

I don't have answers to your questions but it does seem like the the PI and DS's husband and his lawyer and the police are all trying to piece together a thorough timeline that answers all these questions and flushes out some of the gaps!

 

[capoly]

Questions:
What time was the video? Before or after the MacDonalds stop? That would have been 3-4 hours before the accident -- long before.........too early to be staggering (yet).

I doubt the Schuler's hired investigator is looking at vodka purchases at Liquor Stores on the way...............................which he should be.....to get to the truth.

Where is the unaccounted time? between what areas?

PS Thanks for the maps - they were very helpful!!

NY Times offers this info:

Driver’s Spouse Meets Police About Crash That Killed 8

Investigators are retracing Ms. Schuler’s route from the Hunter Lake Campground in Sullivan County with credit card and cellphone records as well as interviews.

Mr. Ruskin said he gave the police a copy of a video from a Sunoco convenience store in Liberty, N.Y., showing Ms. Schuler as she pumped gas, searched the store aisles and asked a clerk for pain relievers.

“The video that we have copied for them shows that she has state of mind,” said Paul Stock, the district manager for the company that owns the convenience store, on Sullivan Avenue. “She did not stagger. She did not sway.”

Mr. Ruskin said she left the store about 11 a.m., about two and a half hours before driving into a Chevrolet TrailBlazer on the Taconic.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/15/nyregion/15taconic.html

 

[Wonder]

NY Times offers this info:

Driver’s Spouse Meets Police About Crash That Killed 8

Investigators are retracing Ms. Schuler’s route from the Hunter Lake Campground in Sullivan County with credit card and cellphone records as well as interviews.

Mr. Ruskin said he gave the police a copy of a video from a Sunoco convenience store in Liberty, N.Y., showing Ms. Schuler as she pumped gas, searched the store aisles and asked a clerk for pain relievers.

“The video that we have copied for them shows that she has state of mind,” said Paul Stock, the district manager for the company that owns the convenience store, on Sullivan Avenue. “She did not stagger. She did not sway.”

Mr. Ruskin said she left the store about 11 a.m., about two and a half hours before driving into a Chevrolet TrailBlazer on the Taconic.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/15/nyregion/15taconic.html

Thank you. I should have read the article. It goes onto to say "The State Police have said that Ms. Schuler was seen by witnesses and in surveillance video acting normally when she and Mr. Schuler, in separate cars, left the campground in Parksville, N.Y., about 9:30 a.m., and again when she left her next stop, a McDonald’s restaurant, by 10:45 a.m. "

So she must of gone to the Sunoco Station after McDonalds -- based on the recent map, was that not backtracking?

 

[Wonder]

From the NY Times, August 7, 2009:
"Mr. Ruskin said on Friday that phone records showed that four calls were logged on Ms. Schuler’s cellphone in the last hours of her life — two incoming calls and two outgoing ones.

He said that Ms. Schuler called her brother, Warren Hance, at 11:37 a.m., to say that she was in traffic, “running a bit late,” but that her nieces would be home in time for a scheduled performance rehearsal. At 12:08 p.m., Ms. Schuler received a call, but it is not yet known who made the call, Mr. Ruskin said.

Emma Hance called her father at 12:58 p.m. and said, “Daddy, there is something wrong with Aunt Diane and she is having trouble seeing and she is talking funny, she is slurring,” Mr. Ruskin said. That call was dropped after three minutes and Mr. Hance called back at 1:01 p.m., in a conversation that lasted nine minutes."

Timeline: So she left the Sunoco station after 11:00 and then called her brother at 11:37 pm to say she was running late. Then the mysterious call at 12:08 came into Diane Schuler's cell. Then the call from Emma at 12:58. THE 12:08 CALL IS VERY KEY TO HER GOING OVER THE EDGE (as others have said). Can't wait until we find out more about that call -- hopefully it will answer some questions.....................

 

[capoly]

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=To:+58+Sullivan+Ave,+Liberty,+NY+12754-2206+(Mc+Donald%27s)+%4041.783529,-74.728846&daddr=44+Sullivan+Ave,+Liberty,+NY+12754+to:rte+17+s&geocode=FemQfQIdcrqL-w%3B%3B&hl=en&gl=us&mra=ls&sll=41.78438,-74.728935&sspn=0.01568,0.038581&ie=UTF8&ll=41.784681,-74.726869&spn=0.00392,0.009645&t=h&z=17

Think this link works.