8 Die in Crash on Taconic State Parkway

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a clear bio-chemical imbalance

If you research the medical literature (NOT WebMD or Merck websites) there is NO SUCH THING as a "bio-chemical imbalance." It is a complete and utter fallacy. I would bet you $100 that I'm right. Contact me personally if you care to.

As I said, I'm not trying to come between anyone and their medication. But SSRIs are by no means an unmitigated blessing to the depressed. And because serotonin's effects in the body and on mood are so poorly understood, no one can predict exactly how an individual will respond to SSRIs. Many do not respond. Many quit because of side effects. Some take them for years, try to quit (like when they lose their medical insurance and have to pay $300 a month for a scrip), and find they can't. I hope that doesn't happen to you.

As I said, I speak from experience, and there are many like me who won't take SSRIs ever again. I'm living proof that bone-deep, life-crushing, self-mutilating, suicidal depression can be conquered without drugs (and even after going through withdrawal), without Jesus, without That Special Someone, without winning the lottery, and without a month in Sierra Tucson or some other recovery spa.
 
BUT, I may add, not without the help, support, and ear of a skilled therapist seen every week and available by phone in a crisis. NOT a shrink, just a social worker. Just a good counselor, someone I trusted with ALL of me.

And it's also true that talk therapy is more efficacious in the long term than drugs. Period.
 
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If you just look at the facts, there is little question this woman made a fatal choice the day of the accident. I understand the family is desperate to push back those facts and hope for a reason that wil[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]l [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]alleviate any guilt they must be feeling for not recognizing Diane's problems. I would be doing the same -- futile as it may be.. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
 
As to the autopsy, I'm not sure if prescription medication would be tested for, because so many people take one prescription or another. Or, if it were, it would be considered just another drug like Lipitor or Prevacid or BC pills. It's not illegal, and it's not usually considered a drug of abuse. People take widely varying dosages, from 20 to 200 mg, so the amount may have been medically typical. And I don't even know if it would show up in the same test for MJ and ETOH. One might be detected only in neurons, for all I know. Or brain tissue. Maybe it can't be found in blood or urine. I could be wrong.

WHENEVER there is evidence presented that someone might have mental issues there is NEVER a "blood neuroleptic level" reported. The only thing I have ever seen is a mention that "he was seeing a therapist and taking medication" or "the suspect in the murders was being treated for depression"--never WHAT medication or the dosage or for how long.
 
SCM.. hhhmmm.. thanks for your perspective, and you are probably right. it does seem like this is the most likely scenario. hope this will be a wake up call for a lot of people (and the public in general).
 
VCDaedalus said:
As to the autopsy, I'm not sure if prescription medication would be tested for, because so many people take one prescription or another. Or, if it were, it would be considered just another drug like Lipitor or Prevacid or BC pills. It's not illegal, and it's not usually considered a drug of abuse. People take widely varying dosages, from 20 to 200 mg, so the amount may have been medically typical. And I don't even know if it would show up in the same test for MJ and ETOH. One might be detected only in neurons, for all I know. Or brain tissue. Maybe it can't be found in blood or urine. I could be wrong.

WHENEVER there is evidence presented that someone might have mental issues there is NEVER a "blood neuroleptic level" reported. The only thing I have ever seen is a mention that "he was seeing a therapist and taking medication" or "the suspect in the murders was being treated for depression"--never WHAT medication or the dosage or for how long.
Click to expand...

You raise some compelling points. But don't you think that in this particular case the police and the Husband's attorneys would be looking super-close at any medications she may have been taking, to include antidepressants?

I worked for a firm that defended Eli Lilly in a bunch of Prozac litigation and I know that many anti-depressants have a reputation for causing all sorts of problems for those who take them - I just think the people in charge of the investigation (on either side) would be all over this as a potential precipitating factor (ie - her mental condition and anything she may have been taking to help it).

You may be right that something like this exists, but I truly believe we would have heard at least a whisper of it by now.
 
reb said:
SCM.. hhhmmm.. thanks for your perspective, and you are probably right. it does seem like this is the most likely scenario. hope this will be a wake up call for a lot of people (and the public in general).
Click to expand...

Reb,

I'd bet money that WAY more than one professional suburban housewife somewhere in this country is tracking this story and seeing herself. Now, will she say "That could never happen to me - I can handle my stuff - look how well I handle my stuff!" or will she say, "I need help before this happens to me."
 
I keep thinking of things to say but I'm too slow and somebody else says it first lol..

I do want to say that the theory of antidepressants or some other psychotropic medication contributing to what happened, is the best one I have heard so far.

I don't know anything about tox screens really, and just wonder, do they have to be looking for a particular drug to find it? Or can they just test for classes of drugs...
 
If she did exactly what I speculated--went to a GP, complained of physical symptoms, and got free samples ("call if you need more") without getting a prescription, and without her husband knowing, then when asked if she was taking any prescription psych meds, Schuler could honestly answer No. They might not investigate further, or Barbara may try to keep Diane's medical records out of the case, which is possible. And if she's an alcoholic, it would be in her interest to keep her medical records as scanty as possible and avoid doctor visits for the most part. Maybe when she got the scrip there was no abscess or leg lump, either.

I don't know the washout time, but it's possible that over time they cannot be detected. Again, I don't know about the latter, I could be wrong.
 
I mean a written prescription filled at a pharmacy, not that the doctor would give her samples and not record that he gave them to her. But again, if medical records are kept out of the trial, however Barbara might manage it, it won't be known.
 
VCDaedalus said:
I mean a written prescription filled at a pharmacy, not that the doctor would give her samples and not record that he gave them to her. But again, if medical records are kept out of the trial, however Barbara might manage it, it won't be known.
Click to expand...

I would think Barbara would WANT it known at trial (and well well before trial) if she was taking something like that or had been given something like that. What am I failing to follow in your train of thought?
 
VCDaedalus said:
a clear bio-chemical imbalance

If you research the medical literature (NOT WebMD or Merck websites) there is NO SUCH THING as a "bio-chemical imbalance." It is a complete and utter fallacy. I would bet you $100 that I'm right. Contact me personally if you care to.

As I said, I'm not trying to come between anyone and their medication. But SSRIs are by no means an unmitigated blessing to the depressed. And because serotonin's effects in the body and on mood are so poorly understood, no one can predict exactly how an individual will respond to SSRIs. Many do not respond. Many quit because of side effects. Some take them for years, try to quit (like when they lose their medical insurance and have to pay $300 a month for a scrip), and find they can't. I hope that doesn't happen to you.

As I said, I speak from experience, and there are many like me who won't take SSRIs ever again. I'm living proof that bone-deep, life-crushing, self-mutilating, suicidal depression can be conquered without drugs (and even after going through withdrawal), without Jesus, without That Special Someone, without winning the lottery, and without a month in Sierra Tucson or some other recovery spa.
Click to expand...

I'll ask my doctor, a licensed medical professional, what the appropriate term is. He's the same person who explained to me that SSRIs can help with serotonin issues just as insulin helps with pancreatic issues. Depression is an organic disorder that can be successfully treated for some people with medication.

And since you mentioned that major depression can be conquered without drugs, religion, romance, money or pampering, but with a qualified therapist, I'll also say that my therapist, a licensed psychotherapist, agrees that, in my case and with my family history, SSRIs are an appropriate treatment.

There may be many who don't respond to meds. Maybe they shouldn't be on meds. But, for some, meds work. And no-one should be discouraged from considering every option.

We will have to agree to disagree. I'm glad for you that you were able to overcome your depression.
 
With the severity of this crash, and the number of lives lost, I would think a complete tox screen would have been done.


Found online
http://www.drugs.com/enc/toxicology-screen.html

A toxicology screen refers to various tests to determine the type and approximate amount of legal and illegal drugs a person has taken.


Barbiturates - screen; Benzodiazepines - screen; Amphetamines - screen; Analgesics - screen; Antidepressants - screen;

Narcotics - screen; Phenothiazines - screen; Drug abuse screen; Blood alcohol test

This test is often done in emergency medical situations. It can be used to evaluate possible accidental or intentional overdose or poisoning. It may help determine the cause of acute drug toxicity, to monitor drug dependency, and to determine the presence of substances in the body for medical or legal purposes.


Additional reasons the test may be performed:


More at link ...
 
So...I was listening to JVM...and one of the panelists mentioned the "artificial" false/positives of alcohol in bodies that have met with fire (please forgive me if I'm getting it all wrong word-wise). She mentioned that there's been research done. I've never heard of it...but I guess anything is possible. As far as DS's behavior on the road...well it brings to mind a young girl my daughter knew of. She had been feeling ill...even was tested for mono...but then went away to summer camp. One morning she woke up and just started walking around aimlessly. ..didn't know who she was or where she was. She had been bit by something...and though they first thought it may have been lyme disease that killed her...it turned out to be meningitis. I suppose what I'm suggesting is that perhaps (and I know it's a big "perhaps") there is another explanation for her being totally disoriented. Driving almost 2 miles in the wrong direction in bright daylight is totally mind-boggling. What if she believed she WAS going in the right direction...almost in a dreamlike state fighting against the current/flow of traffic? Have we found out about the bump on the leg yet? I know everyone will say they looked at the brain...but this young girl had been tested earlier and found to be clear of illness...it just may take longer to manifest itself.
Just thinking...
 
Elf8702 said:
I keep thinking of things to say but I'm too slow and somebody else says it first lol..

I do want to say that the theory of antidepressants or some other psychotropic medication contributing to what happened, is the best one I have heard so far.

I don't know anything about tox screens really, and just wonder, do they have to be looking for a particular drug to find it? Or can they just test for classes of drugs...
Click to expand...
...lets also not forget that pot can be laced with all kinds of cr*p, too.
 
RR0004 said:
...lets also not forget that pot can be laced with all kinds of cr*p, too.
Click to expand...

I agree with that, but will repeat myself. I think circumstantial evidence in this case can lead us to infer that the grown-ups probably smoked some of the pot she had on this trip. I think that's just ONE of the reasons her husband said he wouldn't answer any questions about the pot.

Experience tells me that regular middle-aged pot smokers usually have a pretty safe connection and aren't probably surprised with any funky pot.

This is just my opinion. You are right that the pot could have been laced. Regardless, we KNOW she had enough alcohol in her system to have caused this terrible collision without help from anything else.
 
southcitymom said:
I agree with that, but will repeat myself. I think circumstantial evidence in this case can lead us to infer that the grown-ups probably smoked some of the pot she had on this trip. I think that's just ONE of the reasons her husband said he wouldn't answer any questions about the pot.

Experience tells me that regular middle-aged pot smokers usually have a pretty safe connection and aren't probably surprised with any funky pot.

This is just my opinion. You are right that the pot could have been laced. Regardless, we KNOW she had enough alcohol in her system to have caused this terrible collision without help from anything else.
Click to expand...

I agree....My husbands boss grows his own, and had a secret room built in his house while it was being built 2 years ago so he could grow it there and he has lights and fans to air it out w/o it going through out his house. Most likely they grew it or knew someone who did.
 
RR0004 said:
...lets also not forget that pot can be laced with all kinds of cr*p, too.
Click to expand...

That was one of my first thoughts because the reason I gave up pot years and years ago was because it was getting too strong and laced with stuff. It would have shown up in the tox screen though.
 
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