What John Ramsey was saying is this: When Burke is 40 years old, Patsy and I would be dead and then he can tell the world his parents killed JonBenet.
911 Call
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What John Ramsey was saying is this: When Burke is 40 years old, Patsy and I would be dead and then he can tell the world his parents killed JonBenet.
Thanks for explaining your views. Personally, your post explains many of the reasons the R's may have taken the stance they did.
madeleine
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was watching a crime movie the other day and one scene re a 911 call made me think of this case....
so we all assumed at some point that PR was faking the heavy breath(panic) when she dialed 911 ...what if it's real though and it's not panic or faked but it was due to running up and down (bedroom,basement),they knew they had not much time left to finish the staging and everything?
so we all assumed at some point that PR was faking the heavy breath(panic) when she dialed 911 ...what if it's real though and it's not panic or faked but it was due to running up and down (bedroom,basement),they knew they had not much time left to finish the staging and everything?
Well first of all I do believe Patsy did this crime however I will always leave a little part of me open to someone else. A few things but this note here kind of leads me away a little. The BBM is not something an average mom would know. The term especially back in 1996/97 was not terminology known except for LE/Military someone that works in that area.
Now Patsy could know someone in that area and heard them talking but I don't think so.
My husband job while in the Military and after Military was in counter terrorism/force protection. I can tell you even I back then while talking to someone would not say counter measures and tactics.
Just something I wanted to point out.
Lera213,
What you emphasise seems perfectly reasonable. And seems to reinforce the element of deliberate staging. But not one that Patsy would be entirely familiar with. Suggesting John may have had some input, or alternatively outside advice?
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I really don't know how much her odd wording means, if anything.
I had the pleasure of watching a carjacking about 2 weeks ago, where the guy walked up to the other mans car, and shot his windows out before the driver got out. As a bystander, it looked at first like they had just had killed him, but they eventually pulled him out. I jumped out of my car, and called 9/11 for him but there was such a situation of chaos and fright, I could see how someone's brain would be completely unfocused. This was when dealing with a stranger. If it were your own flesh and blood, a small child, there's really no telling what state of shock and mental incoherence someone may be in.
I had the pleasure of watching a carjacking about 2 weeks ago, where the guy walked up to the other mans car, and shot his windows out before the driver got out. As a bystander, it looked at first like they had just had killed him, but they eventually pulled him out. I jumped out of my car, and called 9/11 for him but there was such a situation of chaos and fright, I could see how someone's brain would be completely unfocused. This was when dealing with a stranger. If it were your own flesh and blood, a small child, there's really no telling what state of shock and mental incoherence someone may be in.
That was a GREAT article! By the way, the example with the man who claimed his wife fell down the steps(the "huh" factor)--that sounded almost exactly like Michael Peterson's 911 call after he murdered his wife. I wonder if that is who they got it from.
Anyhow, Patsy sure falls into a few of these examples.
Personally, I think she was doing something like jumping jacks before she called. And I think she hung up because she wasn't prepared for that silent gap and maybe because her little boy came in at some point.
John--such a useless creature--apparently just stood there picking his nose, because every time Patsy faked ignorance of something, he didn't help out or correct her.
What a freak family.
omg, so funny(and so gross)!! :-D
Have you ever seen the Rs "performances" on YouTube? Positively revolting. Patsy, drugged up and erratic, and JR, constantly licking his rubbery lips.
Vhead
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What really stands out is "we have a note here" 2nd sentence into the 911 call... Without still giving enough info to really know what kind of help
She needs
In speech pattern analysis they say people typically announce items in order of importance.. Like when someone gives their alibi before saying "Ambulance" "Help" etc.. Al la Darlie Routier .. You know there's a problem.
I've always been on the fence more leaning towards pdi.. But after reading transcript.. My tilt towards pdi has grown considerably!
Sent from my iPhone
She needs
In speech pattern analysis they say people typically announce items in order of importance.. Like when someone gives their alibi before saying "Ambulance" "Help" etc.. Al la Darlie Routier .. You know there's a problem.
I've always been on the fence more leaning towards pdi.. But after reading transcript.. My tilt towards pdi has grown considerably!
Sent from my iPhone
Vhead,
PDI seems the most logical theory. But how does PDI explain JonBenet's acute sexual assault and alleged prior abuse?
One answer is PDI but after JonBenet had been abused that night, meaning her abuser had to cover up?
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I find it odd that the Ramsey's didn't seem to care that the police pulled up right outside their house in plain view of someone 'watching'. They didn't mention in the 911 call that the note said not to call the police. Linda Arndt also mentioned that when the time specified in the note that the kidnapper would call came and went with nothing, no one said anything. I would be going out of my mind! I also find it weird that Patsy mentioned S.B.T.C Victory, why mention that when you've no idea what it means? Also weird she never said JonBenet's name.
Any thoughts on the extra seconds on the enhanced recording? I could never make much out, it sounds like someone saying 'What did you do?' at some points but it's way to hard to tell for sure.
Any thoughts on the extra seconds on the enhanced recording? I could never make much out, it sounds like someone saying 'What did you do?' at some points but it's way to hard to tell for sure.
... that seems most odd to me is that they didn't say, "You shouldn't pull up right in front of the house, the note says they'll kill my daughter if they see police." Or something like that.
The calling of the friends next suggests even more so that Patsy wanted to get as many people there as possible to deflect any suspicion towards her. She probably was scared to face police one on one.
I guess you could argue that Patsy panicked; also that she claims not to have read the entire note when she calls 911 (she says she just read the beginning; during the call when she says who took her daughter presumably she is reading the last few lines just then).
To me an interesting quirk is the way she pronounced "S. B. T. C" when telling the 911 operator. She pauses after each letter. It would seem to me that if you were truly overwhelmed with panic and fear you'd rush all the letters together -- "SBTC." Something about her pronunciation there sounds off to me.
If you are RDI, then you understand that the note is a fake anyway, and JB wasn't really kidnapped. In fact, she was already dead when the note was written, which is why it contained the ridiculous "beheading" comment and "denied her remains for proper burial". I mean, what kind of kidnapper/child killer/molester cares whether the parents give the victim a "proper burial"?
You have to understand that there was a POINT to their ignoring the warnings in the note. The warnings were deliberately written BECAUSE she was already dead and they needed the "threat" to explain why she was dead- because they disobeyed the warnings in the note not to tell anyone.
So...they told EVERYONE- and invited them all over to the house that morning, along with the police, all of whom parked near the house and could be easily seen by any "kidnapper" watching the house ("we'll be watching", etc).
So if you understand this, it isn't odd at all. In fact, it makes perfect sense if there is parental involvement.
The FBI, who were at the house early that morning (before they were sent away), sized the whole thing up pretty quickly- the note, the parents' behavior, etc. The FBI said it to the BPD right away- "You're going to be finding her body". They were right.
You have to understand that there was a POINT to their ignoring the warnings in the note. The warnings were deliberately written BECAUSE she was already dead and they needed the "threat" to explain why she was dead- because they disobeyed the warnings in the note not to tell anyone.
So...they told EVERYONE- and invited them all over to the house that morning, along with the police, all of whom parked near the house and could be easily seen by any "kidnapper" watching the house ("we'll be watching", etc).
So if you understand this, it isn't odd at all. In fact, it makes perfect sense if there is parental involvement.
The FBI, who were at the house early that morning (before they were sent away), sized the whole thing up pretty quickly- the note, the parents' behavior, etc. The FBI said it to the BPD right away- "You're going to be finding her body". They were right.
I'm not really firmly in one camp or the other, I think that's why i'm so intrigued by this case because I just don't know...AND REALLY WANT TO! There seems to be evidence pointing everyway. It does make sense that Patsy would 'neglect' to mention the warnings in the note and muddy the scene as much as possible. FBI should have handled this case from the get go, DAMN YOU BOULDER LE!
Stef88,
In the UK this case would be described as simples after the Meerkat who pronounced it so.
There is no evidence linking to anyone outside of the Ramsey household, but there is forensic evidence linking the parents directly to the crime-scene!
The Ransom Note is fake, its staged, so other than artifact, it should not really be allocated undue weight in any theory, particularly with respect to any unknown LEA interpretation.
The main questions are:
1. Did JonBenet's initial assault begin in the basement.
2. Was JonBenet killed in the basement, and how?
3. Was JonBenet redressed in the basement?
4. Was JonBenet relocated to the basement and why?
That pineapple was discovered in JonBenet's stomach further discredits the parents version of events. That JonBenet was found wearing size-12 underwear which Patsy stated she placed into JonBenet's underwear drawer, but no size-12 underwear was found anywhere else in the whole house. From which you can deduce that the intruder explicitly went to JonBenet's underwear drawer and removed only the remaining size-12's, why so?
If you assume a BDI then the parents may have been attempting a cleanup and coverup, all within a short space of time, resulting in apparent contradictions, not only in their own version of events, but their later behaviour and the contents of the ransom note.
With Alex Hunter offering advice about the proto ransom-note, and Pamela Paugh being given unrestricted access to the crime-scene, free to remove forensic evidence, followed up with a visit to MacDonalds, courtesy of the BPD. And all the main participants being interviewed early on, some before JonBenet was even found, suggests the Ramsey's had a strategy and game plan in place, long before they dialled 911!
Which to me smells like a conspiracy?
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Let me preface my comment by saying that I'm RDI, the note is fake, and it was written (and probably composed) by PR.
The thing is - it makes no sense for the kidnappers to have returned the body to the house, especially if she was killed because PR called police. Rationally, the Rs could not have expected the body to remain undetected for very long. So once the body was found it was obvious that the body had been there all along, not killed and returned after the police showed up. It would be obvious that she was not killed in response to the Rs not following instructions. How could the kidnappers have brought the body into the house right under the nose of the police?
So, the note may have originally been written to go along with a plan to dump the body somewhere? For some reason, that plan may have been abandoned. But then, why wasn't the note changed?
Once the 911 call was placed there was pretty much only one chance in a million that the body would not be discovered, so there could have been no plan (at least no rational plan) to dispose of the body after police left.
... this is an area where people overthink things.
I believe PR killed JonBenet and then staged everything herself. She was not thinking rationally. She was thinking psychotically. The "logic" is psychotic. As you point out, the ransom note makes no sense given that JonBenet was already dead in the basement.
But in PR's mind she needed to deflect suspicion. So she invented a crazed leftwing foreign kidnapper, someone who in her mind could be a convincing "monster" to blame for JonBenet's murder. Similarly, the theatrical staging of the sadistic murder which we know does not make sense in a "logical" way was invented by PR in a psychotic fashion. She was trying to imagine what a "monster" would do.
The monster who did the killing does not match the monster who wrote the ransom note but that just shows the state of PR's mind after she killed her daughter. Psychotic, illogical, bizarre.
Chrishope,
This is pretty much how I see it too. I personally place little emphasis on the ransom note. Principally because it was a staged crime-scene artifact, it was not genuine forensic evidence, so to read into the ransom note the intent of its author, is I think to engage in the very process for which the author wrote the note, e.g. confusion.
The ransom note was a detour, a way for the Ramsey's to buy time. They possibly decided prior to dialling 911, precisely what they intended to accomplish e.g. phone friends over, mess up the forensics, relocate Burke, if possible fly to Atlanta ASAP, etc.
The R's thought they knew just how things might pan out. I reckon they had inside advice from both the DA's office and BPD so were going to attempt to bend the protocol, e.g. Pamela Paugh's supermarket sweep.
Assuming Patsy wrote the Ransom Note, all that mattered was that it be credible, the R's needed this to acquire the time needed to execute all their desired outcomes.
The R's thought JonBenet would be found rather quickly, they hoped the staged kidnap, would deflect attention from them to someone outside of the house. This is reflected in John's remarks to BPD officers about having scheduled business appointments to attend in Atlanta. So they expected to avoid due process, probably through their prior contacts and misplaced arrogance regarding their status?
A-priori the ransom note cannot be read as a map of events to come, since the R's would have had same expectations as everyone else. That is the discovery of JonBenet, resulting in possible arrest and interview, the most optimistic outcome for the R's might have been bail, with USofA travel restrictions, e.g. passport handover.
One aspect of the R's plans did not materialise, e.g. the discovery of JonBenet. Nearly everything else was attained including whatever JR did out of sight, except the end-game, the flight to Atlanta. So John Ramsey did improvise, he did put on a bravura performance along with Patsy once he found JonBenet.
Notably they were not arrested, Det Arndt should have arrested them both on the spot, cuffed them and asked them to take a seat while she phoned her superiors.
Was JonBenet intended to be dumped way from the house, possibly. If she had been, even only a block away, I doubt we would be discussing the R's involvement, this was I reckon, after the size-12's and pineapple, their biggest mistake, leaving JonBenet in the house, casts serious doubt on the intruder theory. Since who kidnaps anyone to leave them behind?
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