A&E The Killing Season Episodes 1 and 2

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I am halfway through the second episode. How exciting for Websleuths! Congratulations Tricia and everyone! It was so neat to see yall on on tv; I saw names like MountainKat and DeeDee on the thread screenshots and I was like, I know them! (Well kind of know them, lol :biggrin:).

First I want to say that LISK began before my time here, and I never somehow made it over to those threads. How absolutely horrifying these cases are! I actually just woke up from a nap after watching the show, and I had nightmares about it! The killer(s) is soooo brutal and brazen, calling the sisters and friends to taunt and insult, dismembering the victime, killing a Baby...

I can not wait to dig in here and read all of your posts...where do I start, lol? I have so many initial questions...
 
(Yay, now I'm at the part where Carl just came on...how exciting! :happydance: )
 
(O/T, with PB's references to a "torso killer", I cannot help but be reminded of Jessica Ridgeway. I think ARS was also a torso killer, a budding one at that, and if he was not currently incarcerated would have continued a brutal spree similar to LISK. The aspect of the territoriality makes sense, like how ARS left her torso at that location...and how PB mentions their pleasure at dismembering, just absolutely sickening and chilling to the core.)

Eta: I am officially hooked on this show. It is soo freaky and spooky though!!!

I love how at the end it says " to join the investigation go to www.websleuths.com "....so exciting.

At this point I'm not so sure the B of M and LISK are 2 separate individuals, but again I am totally new to this case, and all I know so far is what has been presented in these first 2 episodes. My guess is maybe there are bodies all the way to Manorville from GB, in between.
 
The burlap sacks keep coming up, cannot help but wonder about the association between burlap sacks and potatoes and potatoes with the Irish.
Many of the named victims appeared to be of Irish extraction, imo.
Could the killer have been making some kind of statement in his taunting phone call to a victim's sister, about QUEENS and wh**e house, and the comment about "half bre*d?
speculation, imo.

How did he know about her sister, I wonder? And also the other victim's friend...still catching up, but posting this in case I forget...

This is all to freaky. I might have to sit this one out....but I'm hooked on the show now...
 
But, the four intact bodies found along the beach are so deliberately placed, like objects in a collection symmetrically placed on a bookshelf; the rest seem almost carelessly scattered about. Does that indicate two distinct personalities?


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I have seen where killers have varying disposal methods, for example, Travis Forbes. I could think of a few reasons why they could vary. But I feel like I know too little about this case to have any sort of opinion until I've read more.
 
How did he know about her sister, I wonder? And also the other victim's friend...still catching up, but posting this in case I forget...

This is all to freaky. I might have to sit this one out....but I'm hooked on the show now...
He probably asked them questions about their lives before he killed them. That's what I'm assuming anyway. They felt comfortable enough with him to discuss it. Or, he simply went into their cellphone contacts.

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How did he know about her sister, I wonder? And also the other victim's friend...still catching up, but posting this in case I forget...

This is all to freaky. I might have to sit this one out....but I'm hooked on the show now...

That calling the sister and tormenting, the things he said, he seems to be into the messing with people's minds, like that may stimulates him or excite him, hearing their fear. So after killing a victim, those who would fear him the most, the best possible fix of it he could get would be from their sisters, it may be possible? Could it be possible, he was ready to move on around the time Shannan happened, and she happened the way she did because he was ready to have his work found, if it is linked?
 
Qmfr:
I am halfway through the second episode. How exciting for Websleuths! Congratulations Tricia and everyone! It was so neat to see yall on on tv; I saw names like MountainKat and DeeDee on the thread screenshots and I was like, I know them! (Well kind of know them, lol :biggrin:)..

And JusticeForever.
 
San Francisco, CA.

I guess I'm lost as to why someone would believe a foreign exchange student would suddenly become a cross dressing prostitute.

Not to say Jonathan would either, but Mo's age enhanced photo doesn't sit right with me. I could be wrong. Mo does match closely as well, just wondering if a part of being a foreign exchange student required some type of DNA/bloodwork/shots prior to entering the country.

To add : I joined WebSleuths particularly for the LISK case and my desire to help. I was in foster care with Shannan, we spent a lot of time together and went to the same junior high school. Um so with life ending up differently for us, I just feel like I owe her this.

BBM.

Sorry for all that happened, I'm glad you have joined us here.
 
In other news... IT'S SATURDAY TODAY!!! TKS TIME! .... yep... Rachel...Josh.... I'm hooked on the show... can you guess? :D
 
Please understand. I'm only posting my personal feelings, and I don't intend arguing or looking down on ANY leads or conversations on who the monsters might be who murder their victims & often torture and desecrate them in order to get "sexual arousal" or "sexual release".

I have some concerns, and I'm not attempting to lecture anyone on their ideas or information they share. I've been involved with psychology & psychiatry as an MD, and I'm having difficulty with the concepts of killers changing their MO's readily or killers competing with each other for territory, etc.

Having been directly involved with a case of serial child rape during my career, I had the opportunity of discussing the case at great length with the arresting detective & the DA who prosecuted this perpetrator. These men reminded me that just as patients in every aspect of life have issues their entire lives, they said the perpetrator didn't wake up yesterday & decide to rape these victims, all of the same age. They do what they do based on what they've learned excites them over years and years, since this man was a child. I can't hold with the idea of "competing with other serial killers" for territory or other issues, despite that being a popular items of discussion. SK's are motivated by tremendously heightened DESIRES that make them kill, RELEASE sexual tension, or to even complete their ability to be aroused sexually. I find very few SK's or other killers of women who are out to compete with anyone else. Now, IF their psychological makeup involves sexual excitement by competing in sports while growing up, or any other hypothetical competitive scenario we could determine, then I would agree with "Territorial Competition" as a motivator for the choice of burial sites. Most SK's are extremely insecure, just as other narcissists are in all manners of life. When you find a HIGHLY narcissistic individual, they usually could care less what other individuals do. Narcissists will only even give credence or attention to another person who they find is worthy of their attention. They rarely find anyone who is worthy. They're God's in their minds, not in their territory. A killer's choice of territory is merely an attempt to have opportunity to kill or an opportunity to dispose without being caught, even if it does cause confusion. They could are less. And, they love making everyone confused. It proves to themselves that they do know more than everyone else. An example is the monster Ed Kemper who was so insecure due to abuse at his mother's hand, he was driven to kill before a beautiful woman he felt WOULD reject him had the chance to do it. He had morbid sexual obsessions that drove him to humiliate the victims & disposed of them to humiliate them, and not to compete with territory. He couldn't care less where or how another killer disposed of victims. His entire existence & MO was based on humiliation of his victims. Every perpetrator I find does the same thing. I'm having difficulty with the personalities of murderers even giving attention to any other killer unless they're a copycat or they use the other killer as a carbon print to base their own murders on. I know there a lot of popular speculations, but territory doesn't match the psychological motivators of these monsters.

Furthermore, it's easy to attempt categorizing SK's as a "Visionary" or "Mission" killer, but those classifications are most often determined in order to categorize after they've been caught or only after overwhelming evidence exists to categorize them before their arrests. That's what psychology has always been based on. We talk to a patient and categorize them AFTER they've developed their motivations or neuroses/psychoses years ago. The categorization is to decide best treatments, to determine if treatment exists, etc. I will always have respect for anyone who has an opinion that might lead to the arrest of SK's, but I can't throw away what I've learned over almost 4 decades of education and career. People do what they do based on their mental motivators. When we see them in the office, we categorize them after the development of their illnesses in order to diagnose and hopefully treat.

I've been beating around the bush, but I'm having a lot of difficulty holding with the idea of killers competing with other killers for territory like a usual football player or sports figure would compete with others, even in the Jack the Ripper case. It's wonderful to be able make speculations such as has been done with the victims when Jack was killing, but they're just "Speculations". No one can prove these speculations wrong, so we get them. In medicine, psychology, psychiatry, it's easy to speculate as well, but it's dangerous. Over the years, I've seen doctors throw away the "scientific process" & even their training in making decisions & they've harmed patients based on following the "new fad" or "popular new theory". Despite being warned, they just jumped on without thinking it through using the "scientific process" and their training.

I've said too much already, and I apologize if I've offended anyone. That's not my intent, I promise. I've been waking up almost every night this past week because of the nagging in my mind. I do not believe that psychological profiles/motivators that make a serial killer commit their dastardly acts does not change over the years unless it enhances their ability to experience what excites them.

Thanks for allowing me to state my position. Again, I don't intend to argue or dismiss any other person's ideas or methods. We ALL just want these monsters arrested, their victims identified, & their families to find some kind of peace.

Thanks everyone. I just have to state my stance. I love the chance to be involved with this process. I still want to hear what everyone has to say, even it's to correct my thinking. I can't promise I'll change my mind, but I will listen with respect & with the hope that if I'm wrong, I'll see it. THX!
 
Yes, and we get 2 episodes again!

Yay! :happydance:


Please understand. I'm only posting my personal feelings, and I don't intend arguing or looking down on ANY leads or conversations on who the monsters might be who murder their victims & often torture and desecrate them in order to get "sexual arousal" or "sexual release".

I have some concerns, and I'm not attempting to lecture anyone on their ideas or information they share. I've been involved with psychology & psychiatry as an MD, and I'm having difficulty with the concepts of killers changing their MO's readily or killers competing with each other for territory, etc.

Having been directly involved with a case of serial child rape during my career, I had the opportunity of discussing the case at great length with the arresting detective & the DA who prosecuted this perpetrator. These men reminded me that just as patients in every aspect of life have issues their entire lives, they said the perpetrator didn't wake up yesterday & decide to rape these victims, all of the same age. They do what they do based on what they've learned excites them over years and years, since this man was a child. I can't hold with the idea of "competing with other serial killers" for territory or other issues, despite that being a popular items of discussion. SK's are motivated by tremendously heightened DESIRES that make them kill, RELEASE sexual tension, or to even complete their ability to be aroused sexually. I find very few SK's or other killers of women who are out to compete with anyone else. Now, IF their psychological makeup involves sexual excitement by competing in sports while growing up, or any other hypothetical competitive scenario we could determine, then I would agree with "Territorial Competition" as a motivator for the choice of burial sites. Most SK's are extremely insecure, just as other narcissists are in all manners of life. When you find a HIGHLY narcissistic individual, they usually could care less what other individuals do. Narcissists will only even give credence or attention to another person who they find is worthy of their attention. They rarely find anyone who is worthy. They're God's in their minds, not in their territory. A killer's choice of territory is merely an attempt to have opportunity to kill or an opportunity to dispose without being caught, even if it does cause confusion. They could are less. And, they love making everyone confused. It proves to themselves that they do know more than everyone else. An example is the monster Ed Kemper who was so insecure due to abuse at his mother's hand, he was driven to kill before a beautiful woman he felt WOULD reject him had the chance to do it. He had morbid sexual obsessions that drove him to humiliate the victims & disposed of them to humiliate them, and not to compete with territory. He couldn't care less where or how another killer disposed of victims. His entire existence & MO was based on humiliation of his victims. Every perpetrator I find does the same thing. I'm having difficulty with the personalities of murderers even giving attention to any other killer unless they're a copycat or they use the other killer as a carbon print to base their own murders on. I know there a lot of popular speculations, but territory doesn't match the psychological motivators of these monsters.

Furthermore, it's easy to attempt categorizing SK's as a "Visionary" or "Mission" killer, but those classifications are most often determined in order to categorize after they've been caught or only after overwhelming evidence exists to categorize them before their arrests. That's what psychology has always been based on. We talk to a patient and categorize them AFTER they've developed their motivations or neuroses/psychoses years ago. The categorization is to decide best treatments, to determine if treatment exists, etc. I will always have respect for anyone who has an opinion that might lead to the arrest of SK's, but I can't throw away what I've learned over almost 4 decades of education and career. People do what they do based on their mental motivators. When we see them in the office, we categorize them after the development of their illnesses in order to diagnose and hopefully treat.

I've been beating around the bush, but I'm having a lot of difficulty holding with the idea of killers competing with other killers for territory like a usual football player or sports figure would compete with others, even in the Jack the Ripper case. It's wonderful to be able make speculations such as has been done with the victims when Jack was killing, but they're just "Speculations". No one can prove these speculations wrong, so we get them. In medicine, psychology, psychiatry, it's easy to speculate as well, but it's dangerous. Over the years, I've seen doctors throw away the "scientific process" & even their training in making decisions & they've harmed patients based on following the "new fad" or "popular new theory". Despite being warned, they just jumped on without thinking it through using the "scientific process" and their training.

I've said too much already, and I apologize if I've offended anyone. That's not my intent, I promise. I've been waking up almost every night this past week because of the nagging in my mind. I do not believe that psychological profiles/motivators that make a serial killer commit their dastardly acts does not change over the years unless it enhances their ability to experience what excites them.

Thanks for allowing me to state my position. Again, I don't intend to argue or dismiss any other person's ideas or methods. We ALL just want these monsters arrested, their victims identified, & their families to find some kind of peace.

Thanks everyone. I just have to state my stance. I love the chance to be involved with this process. I still want to hear what everyone has to say, even it's to correct my thinking. I can't promise I'll change my mind, but I will listen with respect & with the hope that if I'm wrong, I'll see it. THX!

Wow, docrocker. Excellent post, imo. Thank you for this. I am no professional in these areas, but I think similarly about this aspect at this point re: the aspect of competing killers, but again I am new to this case and have little knowledge about the case details for reference; one thing I've learned here though by reading and posting about probably thousands of cases here is that craaaazy coincidences do occur, and when it seems that there is an ideal suspect, I learn there are so many others out there possibly doing the same thing, this is hard to explain...let me use the Possible Serial Shooter(s) here in Colorado as an example. The complexity in that case makes it very hard imo to determine what incidents are related to what, if there are any others not so far mentioned by LE. Our cases are unsolved here.

It is truly fascinating to hear everyone's different thoughts. This is an amazing place, Websleuths.
 
Yes, and we get 2 episodes again!

That is something to be aware of. I had no idea there were 2 episodes that were showed until I was watching my DVR and luckily I had taped the series and was getting ready to close it and started seeing what I thought was new information. It was only then that i realized there were 2 whole episodes.

That is great to hear there will be 2 new episodes tonight.
 
I just checked my guide and see that both episodes from last week will be shown again at 7 p.m. EST. New episodes to follow at 9p.m. tonight.
 
Re BBM
I agree he has some connection there and most likely when he was a child or young boy.

There was a food TV show called "Anthony Bourdain Parts Unknown" and the episode he did when he talked about his childhood memories and fondness for his Atlantic City boardwalk area where he grew up was a perfect example. He talked about his first girlfriend and growing up there and how the memories run deep. Some captions from an article about that show strike a similar tone with what LISK may be experiencing with his Gilgo beach area.

"To him, “Atlantic City will never die.”
"Oh enchanted land of my childhood.”
"childhood memories .......that “feeds the soul.”"

http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/...cle_bd56a6aa-03ab-11e5-9345-93e3c9eb6de1.html


I too believe that GB has a memory for SK and he returns there to sit with his victims (or should I say he did before discovery). He wouldn't look out of place being there either. Maybe it's something he did with his family as a child, going to Jones Beach. I spent my childhood in AC too and while it holds fond memories for me I no longer go there. Casino industry ruined that for me. LI has adult memories for me too, so I'm going to have to say there are millions like me who live within both locations of LI and AC who visit these areas in the summer months and retreat back come Fall. This is all typical local behaviors and not uncommon. I know some would disagree with me on this point but LISK is most likely college educated due to the fact that Amanda describing the caller as someone who didn't have a heavy NY accent. I say this from my own experience in life when I received a insult/compliment(?) from a woman who told me over the phone that I sounded like a educated New Jerseyan, lol. I felt insulted by what she said but at the same time I understood it too. I am educated and while I do have a North Jersey accent it's not heavy like some in the same area. I don't believe LISK is as smart as most here believe, he is average, run of the mill intelligent who happens to have a passion for killing. It is something he enjoys so much that of course he's going to be good at it, just like anyone else with a passion for (something/anything/hobby). I also believe he never wanted those bodies to be discovered, he wanted them all to himself. He doesn't enjoy the attention his bodies have gotten or that they were even discovered. He's not looking for attention or to get noticed, he enjoys his own knowledge of his handy work. He hasn't done anything that the public is aware of that would bring attention to himself and he's had years to do so, like BTK did and what got him caught. But back to my original point, trying to single out one man amongst millions of people is nearly impossible and the only reason he hasn't been discovered yet. His biggest mistake was calling Amanda and I'm sure there are plenty of people, including myself who would love to hear his voice. I have my own POI, which is why I've followed both the AC and the LISK killer. If I could just hear the voice of the phone calls I could eliminate or include my POI. Its funny, not funny but I think there are a lot of people who have a POI in this area of the country who feel the same way as I do. Hopefully the FBI is sorting through everything and will be willing to release more information without losing the intregity of the case they are building.
 
I believe it is a cop.

(O/ T, I saw this show on ID, I can't remember the name right now, but there was a lady who felt she was being followed at night so she called the cops and the one that responded agreed to keep an eye on her route at night or something like that and it turned to the cop, the one she turned to for help!)
 
Re BBM
I agree he has some connection there and most likely when he was a child or young boy.

There was a food TV show called "Anthony Bourdain Parts Unknown" and the episode he did when he talked about his childhood memories and fondness for his Atlantic City boardwalk area where he grew up was a perfect example. He talked about his first girlfriend and growing up there and how the memories run deep. Some captions from an article about that show strike a similar tone with what LISK may be experiencing with his Gilgo beach area.

"To him, “Atlantic City will never die.”
"Oh enchanted land of my childhood.”
"childhood memories .......that “feeds the soul.”"

http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/...cle_bd56a6aa-03ab-11e5-9345-93e3c9eb6de1.html

Indeed, Hatfield. Great post. Chilling...

Jumping off your posts, anything hinky in Asbury Park, NJ???
eta: Upon initial search, http://www.app.com/story/news/local.../23/possible-human-head-found-brick/82158088/ , "The Ocean County Sheriff's Department as well as State Police and local forensics experts are also investigating the skull and searching the area, Della Fave said. In addition, authorities are reviewing records of missing people, he added.

“We wanted to make sure that the folks living in the area (know) that there’s no immediate concern to them, or safety concern," Della Fave said.

The discovery comes almost a year after a retired detective found a skull fragment on the sands of Island Beach State Park. Authorities were unable to match that fragment to any local missing person."
 
Question about the show, re: the skull found at the golf course, was that in an area where it could have been washed up there (near river, etc), or is where it was found exactly where they think it was originally placed? If so, he would have likely carried it in at night, or while golfing, in his golf bag? Or maybe he's a grounds keeper or works landscaping? I was reading something here last night and now I can't remember what it was, maybe a possible victim, uid, also found near a golf course? On the show the man who described the discovery said there the skull was, teeth hacked out, staring right up at him when he went to get the golf ball...maybe this is also part of his intent to shock and traumatize others?

Re: AC, so obviously maybe a gambler. Or maybe not. Maybe a golfer. Maybe not...

Re: the Cannibal Cop, I see it has been determined he is likely too young, but wooow the aspects that so far crosscheck what has been mentioned on the show Queens, Manhattan, ACCESSING LE DATABASES...see this is exactly what I mean about crazy coincidences on WS....and the 2 previous SK's in LI, as stated upstream what the heck is in the water up there?

Re: how he knew about the sister and friend to call and taunt them, yes indeed possible he extracted this information while they were being held alive, but I also wonder if this information came to him through hacking, researching his victims. Question, did all of the known prostitutes have previous records?

Is there a voice recognition data base similar to CODIS, etc.? Surely there is something like that out there...but then there would need to be an original sample for cross reference, just thinking out loud...
 
I just checked my guide and see that both episodes from last week will be shown again at 7 p.m. EST. New episodes to follow at 9p.m. tonight.

Thats GREAT! It will allow anyone who has not had to the chance to watch last week's episodes a chance to catch up right before the new shows.

I love when networks do that.

Its becoming a popular network strategy as I see other shows doing this and I like it. :)
 
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