A Pre Meditated Murder? or Accidental?

[Jolynna]

I think Tony's testimony in regards to 16th evening will be crucial, but do not think it will necessarily confirm or deny accident vs premeditated murder?

If Casey told Tony on Monday night that she could come stay with him but not Caylee and Casey didn't ask ANYONE to watch her daughter, that would raise my eyebrows.

Tony also knows whether or not Casey ever went near her car trunk or left Tony's side after she got near his apartment.

I bet no.

JMO

 

[Rumpole]

If Casey told Tony on Monday night that she could come stay with him but not Caylee and Casey didn't ask ANYONE to watch her daughter, that would raise my eyebrows.

Tony also knows whether or not Casey ever went near her car trunk or left Tony's side after she got near his apartment.

I bet no.

JMO

I agree (Do you mean Sunday night, before the death?)

But Tony's testimony can not speak to what other arrangements KC made, just that she was planning to come. She may well have intended to find a baby sitter and failed., as some think the flurry of phone calls indicates.

 

[Jolynna]

I agree (Do you mean Sunday night, before the death?)

But Tony's testimony can not speak to what other arrangements KC made, just that she was planning to come. She may well have intended to find a baby sitter and failed., as some think the flurry of phone calls indicates.

Amy's testimony about what she and Casey talked about for 36 minutes on June 16 has not been released. If she or Jesse say Casey asked them to babysit, it would look like Casey was making arrangements for Caylee's care.

But, if instead LE found leftover homemade chloroform in the yard sprayers and Amy says Casey never mentioned Caylee and was just excited about living with Tony...that seals the premeditated part for me.

Wish they'd hurry up with the document dumps.

 

[Rumpole]

Amy's testimony about what she and Casey talked about for 36 minutes on June 16 has not been released. If she or Jesse say Casey asked them to babysit, it would look like Casey was making arrangements for Caylee's care.

But, if instead LE found leftover homemade chloroform in the yard sprayers and Amy says Casey never mentioned Caylee and was just excited about living with Tony...that seals the premeditated part for me.

Wish they'd hurry up with the document dumps.

There has been no suggestion of chloroform in yard sprayers?

If chloroform were used in that way it would likely dissolve plastic components and tubing.

 

[riddlez]

I believe this was premeditated....though I cannot wrap my head around hurting this adorable little girl. If it were not for the Google searches on chloroform and neck-breaking...the heart shaped sticker over the mouth...

The one question I have is her decision to dump Caylee where she did???...
Seems an odd choice for someone as calculating as she appears...

I've a feeling the FBI will be studying her behavior and the Ants for a while...
-riddlez

 

[concentric]

I'm not yet convinced that it was premeditated murder, premeditated medication, perhaps in the form of chloroform.

I agree that KC was really pizzed off at CA and felt she had to get away from Caylee--so she maybe shoved an extra dose of chloroform on her face for good measure to make her sleep for a long time, a very long time.
Then she could have placed the tape and heart. This meaning: I love you, but you have to shut-up.

Now, the above paragraph could be considered pre-meditated murder I suppose by legal definition of which I am not aware.

 

[Jolynna]

There has been no suggestion of chloroform in yard sprayers?

If chloroform were used in that way it would likely dissolve plastic components and tubing.

I said IF...lol. That was an example of the kind of information that may be still out that would point to a more long-term plan.

Just like IF Amy says Casey asked her to babysit that would suggest Casey hadn't yet made up her mind to kill Caylee.

They could have found chloroform residue n any container...IF it exists. I DON'T entirely rule it out because Baez is concerned enough to subpoena Ric's computer files.

LE and the state already know what Amy and Casey talked about. They know what Casey told Tony. And what Tony told Casey. They know if Casey ever left Tony's side after she met up with him on June 16.

Since Casey was charged with murder 1, I'm betting she stuck to Tony like glue and never once went close to her car trunk to do any checking. I really think she is monstrous enough to know Caylee was dead and be happy as a clam in Blockbuster.

JMO

 

[Jolynna]

There has been no suggestion of chloroform in yard sprayers?

If chloroform were used in that way it would likely dissolve plastic components and tubing.

It would also blister and burn Caylee's skin.

Plus it can only be safely administered in 15 minute doses at a time. Which would mean Casey would have to be standing at Caylee's head slowly dripping it out all night to keep Caylee asleep.

Casey NEVER used chloroform on a regular basis as a babysitter. I am as sure of that as I am my own name.

If she ever used it, she just used it once. The gag was put on in a way that meant a one-time use also.

IF it comes out that chloroform was used, mixing it and using the gag are definite proof of a PLANNED-in- advance murder.

Since chloroform seems to be overkill for a 2-year-old, I am not locked into it. But, as Casey seems to do things in overly dramatic (i/e the heart sticker) & not especially smart ways, I won't rule it out either.

JMO

 

[Rumpole]

It would also blister and burn Caylee's skin.

Plus it can only be safely administered in 15 minute doses at a time. Which would mean Casey would have to be standing at Caylee's head slowly dripping it out all night to keep Caylee asleep.

Casey NEVER used chloroform on a regular basis as a babysitter. I am as sure of that as I am my own name.

If she ever used it, she just used it once. The gag was put on in a way that meant a one-time use also.

IF it comes out that chloroform was used, mixing it and using the gag are definite proof of a PLANNED-in- advance murder.

Since chloroform seems to be overkill for a 2-year-old, I am not locked into it. But, as Casey seems to do things in overly dramatic (i/e the heart sticker) & not especially smart ways, I won't rule it out either.

JMO

We are all guessing to some extent, but endeavour to make BEST guess, and be consistent with the facts we do know.

I simply do not consider a brief google search significant and all the forensics have told us is a "raised level" Even if Chloroform was used (And that's a Huge if) there is no evidence to prove it. I just don't see the point in trying to work it into a theory at this stage.

 

[jjgram]

We are all guessing to some extent, but endeavour to make BEST guess, and be consistent with the facts we do know.

I simply do not consider a brief google search significant and all the forensics have told us is a "raised level" Even if Chloroform was used (And that's a Huge if) there is no evidence to prove it. I just don't see the point in trying to work it into a theory at this stage.

Yes... HP... I guess I am just so sad... that
HOW EVER SHE WAS KILLED..... The fact... Dead is still Dead...
I do also believe KC did it.
I do also believe whether she planned it...
if it was accidental... which I truly doubt... but
even still............ she DID NOT dial "911"
she HID the Death !
She LIED & LIED & LIED SOME MORE !!!
:behindbar:liar::liar::liar:
I am just disgusted with KC's Behavior !

JMO
jjgram

God Bless ALL helping to solve this case !

 

[ibyoungr]

Bump
I have posted this in the theory thread as well....

I have decided on pre-meditated murder even if she suffocated Caylee. I previously thought she may have done it in rage.. but now.. I think that afternoon she gave Caylee an OTC to make her very groggy and unresponsive, after Caylee went to sleep. She duct taped her mouth, put on the sticker and held a pillow over Caylee's face. Caylee was unable to kick, move or struggle because she was drugged with OTC cold meds.

The one thing that tipped the scale for me... Cindy in her audio interview stated that Casey told them they were not coming home that night(when did she tell this to Cindy??). Casey told GA after Cindy went to work.. they would not be home that night.....

If she did not tell them that prior to the murder but later in the flurry of calls.... she smothered Caylee in a rage and had plenty of time to pull the pillow and duct tape off her mouth. But she didn't.

Either way.. Cold and Pre-meditated.

Cindy states in her interview that Casey told her they were staying at the nanny's on the night of June 16th. (she already planned for Caylee to be gone)

Told GA that they were probably not going to be home that night.

Casey was at home in the afternoon of June 16th per computer forensics. Leaving with Caylee in front of George(get an alibi that she left with Caylee) to return to the house.. only to show up at Tony's at 4:30 without Caylee.

Caylee was found tripled bag and left like trash in the woods. NEAR HER HOME
with NO SHOES (you take shoes off when kids take a nap) with DUCT TAPE on the baby's mouth(you tape a mouth to keep it from screaming) and put a heart sticker on the tape(hearts mean love)

Casey backs into a garage and borrows a shovel. (not typical behavior)

Casey was happy and carefree at BB. (she now has freedom)

TL doesn't recall her going outside during the movies to her car per the audio interview.

They slept in the next day on June 17th having sex with Tony while he skipped school.(per TL interview) She does not go outside or seem nervous.

Casey ramps up the story about Zanny the Nanny.. offering it up often times without being asked to all her friends and mom.

Casey creates the outrageous lie about Zanny in a car accident/Tampa etc and offers it up to Cindy. ( a total unessesary lie no purpose other than to set up a non-existent nanny)

Casey goes out and parties it up on June 20th, 27th, July 4th, only using ZANNY as the sitter... she no longer is telling any of her friends especially on July 4th that Caylee is with the nanny instead of her GRANDPARENTS on a HOLIDAY.

Casey uploads photos of her and her boyfriend the DAY after Caylee's last day.

Casey gets a tattoo, steals, shops and smokes pot.

Casey dumps her car and offers up stories about the smell and where it came from.

Casey does not report her daughter kidnapped EVER.

Casey continues to tell bald face lies even when confronted with the truth.

Casey continues to laugh and smile and flirt with NUMEROUS MEN.

Casey has a PHYSICAL reaction that was spontaneous to the finding of the remains.

Casey is reported unemotional and flat when talking rapidly to the jailhouse officer.Casey talks about Football shortly after hearing about remains being found.

Casey only cries when SHE is faced with no bond, going to jail, or trying to garner sympathy for herself.


Casey cries at a press conference with Jose B. The ONLY TIME she cried in front of cameras or attended her own news conference. Not one pleading to the kidnappers.

Casey is NOT CRYING within hours of the press conference when the police chased her down and took her in for the interview in October. She acts cold, cool and collected and even gets a little flirting in. Not once, did she act like an innocent person.

Casey did not want a public memorial for her daughter.

Casey could not accept the rest of the world loving Caylee.


Casey evidently has adapted well to prison life. She is permenantly free of her mother.

"She hated her mother.. more than she loved that little girl."


Casey is defective, she is cold, she has no true emotions, she will probably not have the capacity to be rehabiliated.

Casey has 19 criminal charges against her and she did this all in 31 days.

 

[JBean]

bumping for reference of old discussion on this topic to see how thoughts have changed for the current thread