A Pre Meditated Murder? or Accidental?

[ZooMomology]

Since we do not know when the chloroform searches were done, I realy think Georgie did these, or Cindy, trying to figure out how to clean the car.

 

[2goldfish]

I am with everyone who said they are on the fence because the heart and head dont match up - I just cannot see those pics and videos, and think what a rational or even semi-rational person is like - she must have loved her baby, and she *could* have left her with her mother if she didnt want her. so why murder her?

what if someone did kidnap her? and KC was so terrified of being thought of as neglectful? what if she was so guilty, worried, sickened... (what rational person would keep silent for 31 days, until she was forced to say or do something? then lie, lie,lie, and then lie a little more? without even an instance of worry that anyone saw?)

what if it was an accident and she just cannot face it? (what rational person would have absolutely NO effects afterwards? where is the depression, the withdrawl, the inability to sleep? the PTSD? cause we all know if it was OUR baby, the scene would play in our minds over and over and over and over until we cracked...right?)

Everytime I hear the lies, lies, lies, my heart says it is because she cannot face up to her daughter being kidnapped/drowned/whatever.

....but there were so many lies and so much stealing long before this...this was when she got caught. A lot of posters and people i general (NG) seem to look at every little thing KC has ever done as being monstrous and cold - I dont think so much is/was, it's just stuff. Then again, what weirds me out lately is the fact that she "just" found out she was preg with caylee when she was 7 months along, how bizarre. So it seems between that, the weirdness about the baby daddy, the stealing over years, the leaving caylee with anyone through the years, the lies through the years.....maybe everything *is* monstrous and I, in my heart, just cannot grasp that.

because when she was talking to LE and they started in on the "maybe she is rotting in a dumpster somewhere" (not an exact quote obs) anyone, whether having a kidnapped child or more esp. a dead one through an accident, would have broke down totally at the mere thought...that's kinda what does it for me.

 

[Obsessed1]

I am on the fence. I don't think TonE had anything to do with it in any sense (coverup included). I think she was enamored with him and that may be why she stole money to buy outfits for her club nights, food to bring to his house, be able to have money for drinks, maybe pot, etc. By TonE's own admission he started to feel suffocated and "joked" with her that he may have to stay in NY & get a job there, etc., which made her very upset according to him. This was his way of getting her to back off a little. So, while he was away, she was sleeping with Ricardo and in her mind that was how she was "getting back" at TonE for making those comments. Jesse had also mentioned she had complained to him about her relationship with TonE (even though she had only known him a month!), so evidently her knight wasn't in such shiny armor after all, so she was already feeling agitated that all her stealing and everything was going to come out in the open and her lies to Amy about living together, etc. would come crashing down, then the fight with her parents. That was the last straw and she left with Caylee that night in a vengeful rage and God help Caylee if she even whimpered. We may never know the rest of the story, but that's how I think her thinking may have been going. I don't think she left the house with the intention of killing Caylee, but I do think she did maybe accidentally on purpose.

 

[Faenorwyn]

I chose that I NOW believe it was premeditated. I actually changed my mind a while back, I think it was around the time that all the photo's and myspace messages started to emerge about Casey's actions from mid June onward. Those are not the actions of a mother whose child died of an accident. I'm a mother...2 beautiful daughters a bit older than Caylee. And I would expect any mother to agree that IF something horrible happens to your child, an accident, whether you were at fault or not.....you would be devastated. Period. You wouldn't be out partying and going out to eat with your friends, laughing, smiling, having a good time, hooking up with guys, and livin' la vida loca. The ONLY scenario I can see that as a possibility is if somehow she mentally blocked it out and just does not remember it, period. But I don't believe that either, becuase IF that were the case, what about all the lies about working, having a nanny, the nanny stole her, etc. If she genuinely blocked it out, she would not remember ANYTHING that happened. She wouldn't make up some story about dropping the kid off, the script, all the other lies, blah blah, need I go on?

So no.....I don't believe it was an accident. I believe that for reasons I will NEVER understand, she killed her child intentionally. I have a hard time wrapping my head around it. Then again, I have a hard time wrapping my head around how Scott P. could have killed his wife and unborn son. I have a hard time understanding how Susan S. could have let her car roll into a lake with her two precious sons inside and watched as they drowned. Both Scott and Susan lied after the fact, and tried to fool the media, their families, investigators..............so I understand it? No. I never will. People are capable of horrible things. There is no rhyme or reason for it sometimes. Some people are just capable of being evil, lying and manipulating people, and even murdering their own child in cold blood. I believe Casey is one of those people. And I pray that she will confess so that precious baby can have a proper burial.

 

[Faenorwyn]

I am with everyone who said they are on the fence because the heart and head dont match up - I just cannot see those pics and videos, and think what a rational or even semi-rational person is like - she must have loved her baby, and she *could* have left her with her mother if she didnt want her. so why murder her?

***respectfully snipped***

I understand what you're saying, and I have a hard time accepting it too. But I have had to bring myself to do so. But one thing we all have to remember is, this is NOT the first case of a parent being suspected in their own child's death. In my previous post I gave two examples, Scott Peterson and Susan Smith. If you aren't familiar with those cases, google them and see. And those are just two that came to mind right off, that have been convicted!! There are many others. It's unthinkable for a rational human being like you or I. But something is wrong in the minds/hearts/souls of people who kill their children. Something that thankfully I do not understand or relate to on any level.

And look at the pics and video of Susan Smith with her children. Who could have imagined??? And the pictures of Scott and his wife. Happy family.....who would think that he, a nice looking guy, clean cut family man could be capable of such a horrible thing? It happens. It's awful, but it DOES happen.

I hope I'm wrong. If Caylee is found alive, I will be the first one to come here and apologize to all those who are keeping the hope alive. I will be jumping for joy and so glad that I was wrong. It would change my view of people in general and especially of Casey obviously. That would just be wonderful, but I don't think it will happen.

 

[Elley Mae]

I think that Casey lost it after she left the Anthony's, and probably had some resentment towards Caylee because of the relationship between Caylee and Cindy. She had never been on her own with Caylee and this new relationship with Tony was something that she seemed to enjoy but Caylee was in the way. I don't think that anyone else was envolved in Caylee's disappearance. And as far as it being stated by some that she was smoking more pot,It was probably her way of handling the situation at hand. She stopped hanging out with the friends that knew her,she started keeping company with people that would not question her about Caylee so much.I don't know about premeditated murder but I do believe that she killed the child.

 

[icherish]

I think I've fallen off the fence. What haunts me is the "spiteful B" remark. Basically admitting that whatever happened, was done out of spite. Makes me ill to think about it.

 

[Karate Dad]

Well in order for the court to establish PREMEDITATED murder the State must prove the following three elements beyond a reasonable doubt:


1. (Defendant) did some act intended to cause the death of (victim) that went beyond just thinking or talking about it.


2.(Defendant) acted with a premeditated design to kill (victim).


3.The act would have resulted in the death of (victim) except that someone prevented (defendant) from killing (victim) or [he] [she] failed to do so.

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cach...lorida+Supreme+Court&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

 

[blupencl]

One of the hallmarks of Casey's personality is that Casey doesn't think that Casey owes for anything. This includes the responsibility for Caylee's death, the money that she takes from other people, etc. I don't know how it happened - I originally felt that it was death in a hot car after being forgotten there, and now I wonder if she didn't over-drug her trying to let her sleep in the car so that Casey could be with her boyfriend. She is SO man-obsessed it is not even funny. To me, it smacks of personality disorder all the way to the bone.

But premeditated, to get back at her mother? No, I don't feel this way at all. I may be wrong and I shall cheerfully eat crow if I am.

 

[JustMy2Cents]

Computer searches and their dates have not been made public but when they are I believe NG will be proven wrong. I believe we will see chloroform searches *POST DATE* Caylee's disappearance--in fact FIT quite neatly within an accidental pool drowning scenario--since we now have every reason to suspect chloroform may have actually been used to destroy the ODOR or DNA--AFTER Caylee's decaying body had been inside trunk. Even THEN, the nagging question still remains by WHOM (I've got another theory re that). NG is far too eager to pronounce this tragedy a coldblooded, premeditated murder when even Casey herself when pressed by Lee ADMITS and alludes to the fact her mother's right afterall--that she really IS an "UNFIT" mother. (After tonight I really miss Greta's objectivity, all this gnashing of teeth is getting tiresome.) Don't get me wrong, there is NOTHING Casey did in the aftermath of this heartbreaking tragedy that is appropriate, reasonable or how any HUMANE, RESPONSIBLE, CARING ADULT would act! But the "rain falls on the just and the UNJUST" (including narcissists, fools, liars and thieves) and NEGLIGENCE, POOR PARENTING, FOOLISHNESS AND SELFISH PRIORITIES do in some instances CAUSE DEATH. One more silent toddler drowning--concealed after no one was answering her panicked calls because she couldn't face her mother or bear responsibiity for what she allowed to happen--for being the incompetent mother her mom always told her she was. 71 years worth of fraud, stolen and forged check charges YES Felony child endangerment YES!!! Lying to investigators YES!! Obstruction of justice!!! YES Criminal negligence YES!!! Abuse of a corpse YES!!!! Premeditated murder? I don't think so. We shall see as soon as we know ALL the cards LE is working with. IMHO

How do you explain her utter lack of remorse? Her carefree party lifestyle? Her GIDDYNESS over TonE? I think she wanted this child gone so she could live her new life.

 

[TxLady2]

Premeditation merely means that she had a conscious thought of murder before she acted... which can mean mere seconds. Say, I have a gun or a knife and I stab or shoot someone in a sudden rage... it was premeditated.
I don't think she planned this days or weeks beforehand, specifically. I think she might have thought many times that her life would be better if she didn't have the responsibility... but did not act on it until after the big blowup with her mother. Who knows how long after? Could have been that night, or it could have been days later.
And the sad fact is... we might never know the truth, because she won't say one way or the other.

 

[Atomic]

The odor in the car says this wasn't pre-meditated.

I agree.
It seems to me if this was planned, the body wouldn't have been in the car however long it was. Or possibly in the backyard then moved to the car, bringing in dirt, making a bigger mess. Sounds to me like she didn't even make a real effort to clean the trunk.
Premeditated or not, she had a month to come up with a story. The way she lived that month was like the end was never coming, like Amy wouldn't notice money missing and no one would ever really ask about Caylee. I don't understand why she didn't atleast put on an act, so she could go back and say "see how upset and weird Ive been for the past 31 days". It's like she made NO effort to cover her tracks or be prepared.
I tend to believe also that she searched for chloroform after the fact, to try to clean the smell. But I don't see any links online that make that sound like the way to do it. Maybe she already had access to some and decided to give it a try, not necessarily ordering it online.

 

[BetsyB]

I can't swallow accidental drowning, and here's why:

Casey's all about what she can derive from any situation.

An accidental drowning would present a golden opportunity to elicit attention, sympathy, love---all of the secondary gains she needed to fill her gaping void. She would have exploited an accidental death as fully as she could.

No. It was not an accidental drowning. Chloroform was not used as a cleaner.

We all would LIKE to think that mothers love their children and do not harm them. Sociopaths do not love. They may seem to, but they don't. They can't.

This is very hard even for family of sociopaths to wrap their minds around--we have a "normal" capacity for human emotion, and find it very difficult to understand that the parent (or sibling, or..) we love is really simply a shell and a mask du jour. There is nothing else there for others. Nothing genuine, at least.

 

[seeker78]

The odor in the car says this wasn't pre-meditated.

Nowhere does it say that pre-meditation has to be intelligent.

 

[lostnfound85]

A mother that accidently kills her child is overcome with remorse. This was no accident, cold blooded as they come.

 

[GirlinCentralFL]

After reading the 600+ pages that came out so far I think she was thinking of getting rid of Caylee for her own social and boyfriend benefit.

 

[coco puff]

Since we do not know when the chloroform searches were done, I realy think Georgie did these, or Cindy, trying to figure out how to clean the car.

Agreed. George being ex-LE knows decomp can't be cleaned with Lysol.

I loved your Cindy quote. I love another one where she says she talked to the tow yard guy and he said there was NO smell when the car came to the lot...remember "NO SMELL". So if there was no smell, why was Casey talking about squirels so much.

 

[minazoe]

women tend to be poisoner's, I think she planned this before the fight. I wouldn't use the fight as the catalyst. I don't think she was putting Cayee in the trunk, I think Caylee was dead before the 15th.

I beleive Casey wanted a guy to support her in the interim while she planned the demise of her parents, child and possibly Lee. She was already setting up house with Amy at her parent's home, and telling people that George had a stroke.

I think she had chloroform and tried it on Amy and was experimenting.

As for the shovel, I believe she tried to bury Caylee at the house but she freaked out .
( I think she may have begun digging by that bush, so George moved the bush to cover it up)

So, I think...It was too hard to dig there and Casey gave up and moved Caylee's body back to the car...I think she had been dead awhile and was already decomposing. I beleive she was calling to make sure no one was going to walk in on her.

I think Casey was planning to inherit her parent's estate early.

Casey doesn't have fits of rage, she's a planner. She just didn't account for disposing of Caylee...she thought it would be easier then it was.

 

[minazoe]

also , I wonder if Brandon knows Caylee is his...maybe she didn't plan on him being in town and she knew he would ask to see Caylee...maybe she had Caylee somewhere where he might find her inadvertently...like a shed near the house where he might have something in storage? or a garage? something...when she disappeared I think it was because she had to hide Caylee's body again....something....

 

[magic-cat]

I agree.
It seems to me if this was planned, the body wouldn't have been in the car however long it was. Or possibly in the backyard then moved to the car, bringing in dirt, making a bigger mess. Sounds to me like she didn't even make a real effort to clean the trunk.
Premeditated or not, she had a month to come up with a story. The way she lived that month was like the end was never coming, like Amy wouldn't notice money missing and no one would ever really ask about Caylee. I don't understand why she didn't atleast put on an act, so she could go back and say "see how upset and weird Ive been for the past 31 days". It's like she made NO effort to cover her tracks or be prepared.
I tend to believe also that she searched for chloroform after the fact, to try to clean the smell. But I don't see any links online that make that sound like the way to do it. Maybe she already had access to some and decided to give it a try, not necessarily ordering it online.

I believe that Casey did plan this. I believe she was trying to make it look like an accidental drowning, but because rigor mortis had already set in by the time she took Caylee to where she planned to "stage her death" (my thoughts are that she chloroformed her and put her in the trunk overnight on the night of the 15th), which was in the back yard, and she could not change her into her swimsuit due to rigor mortis (sets in within 12 hours of death), or she just could not carry it out, having to handle Caylee as she would have had to, or she just realized that "this is not going to work" because she DOES plan but she is NOT very smart and does not plan WELL. This would account for why she was IN the backyard and in the trunk and would take into account the chloroform as well. This would also explain the ladder and the gate to the pool. She put those back to "stage" the death. Anyhow, after the lightbulb went off in her little tiny pea sized brain that this was not going to fly, she put Caylee into SOMETHING and then back into the trunk she went and remained there until whenever Casey "got rid of her" by whatever means she used.