Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #175

[girlhasnoname]

Pg 276 begins the lab analysis.

When this first came out, I compared the items taken to the lab and agency numbers. As best as I could tell, item 016 was possibly the one that came from the crime scene.

From your post, I thought you found that info from a news source and that's why I asked for a link.

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2023/06/DelphiDocumentsCombined.pdf

With all the massive documents it gets hard to for me to keep it all straight, but I did read that the examiner made that specific claim at the time of examination. The brown paper bag and the evidence bag. I don't remember if it was MSM, I think it was in Discovery, but I'm still looking. Hah

 

[girlhasnoname]

It seems filing it in documents that are of public access and therefore on the internet and able to ruin a person's reputation and life is going out on the courthouse steps and then some! IMO

It's fair game unfortunately if the Defense wants to stoop to that level, just look at the outrageous claims Jose Baez made about GA in the Caylee Anthony murder case. Wow, can you even imagine?

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

She is quoting the bottom line. Does it really matter, in the end, what the SC justice's pattern of thought was to that end?

Agree, they unanimously voted not to disqualify Judge Gull and replace her with a Special Judge appointment. That says something to me.

JMO

 

[mrjitty]

As an aside, it looks like according to para 8 of the discovery protection order, MW should have signed an agreement to receive any portion of it, and agree to the Court's jurisdiction and get prior Court permission, unless he was an investigator or expert of the defence under para 6

I suspect this is why AB did not fess up to showing him the Franks (and whatever else) which contains portions of the discovery pasted in. Merely discussing 'trial strategy" would not breach the order.

 

[mrjitty]

Agree, they unanimously voted not to disqualify Judge Gull and replace her with a Special Judge appointment. That says something to me.

JMO

They might not have had jurisdiction though.

What I do agree with is they are AWOL right now - where is their full judgement???

 

[sunshineray]

OJ was rich and famous.

Casey Anthony

 

[TL4S]

If RA is guilty, then I hope the State's evidence is really good. Because if the trial goes anything like the rest of this case has, I would almost guarantee at least one juror will be sitting there at the end saying, "WTF?"

 

[SharonNeedles]

Agree, they unanimously voted not to disqualify Judge Gull and replace her with a Special Judge appointment. That says something to me.

JMO

It says nothing to me until they elaborate. That same statement from a lower court could be interpreted as a yes/no decision, but at a supreme court level it's more likely to be a "that's not our problem" decision.

 

[steeltowngirl]

PW was friends with BH. They used to hang out on Sundays for their Odinist meetings, according to PW himself.

I had both of them on my early POI list. I was curious as to why BH would bring up PW to LE when questioned about the murders. I could understand questioning LH (and even BH) due to the connection with Abby, (though even that is somewhat odd, if Abby’s family wasn’t aware she was friends with LH).

Was BH initially questioned because he was LH’s father, or because the crime scene looked to be staged with Odin symbols? How and who connected PW and BH to the crime? I’ve heard that BP may have suggested it, but I’ve not seen anything confirming that, and it makes me uncomfortable to discuss it since she cannot speak to anything about her granddaughter‘s murder due to the gag order.

 

[steeltowngirl]

For all the hot air about losing the chance to destroy BH on the stand - there is not one single piece of evidence that implicates him in the murders. Holder never was going to on trial here.

Exactly. BH isn’t on trial. Richard Allen is scheduled for trial in the murders of Libby and Abby, the victims in this case, which is the topic of this thread. JG is the current presiding judge, and has jurisdiction.

Sometimes I have to remind myself of all of the above, as we weave down so many paths on the thread!

 

[steeltowngirl]

OJ was rich and famous.

Casey Anthony was neither rich nor famous.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Casey Anthony was neither rich nor famous.

Right, just notorious and a proven habitual liar. But she had a defense attorney that provided a very, very vigorous defense of her (they were so close ) and she walked on an obvious case. IMO

It happens, our judicial system is not perfect, let's just hope the guilty party(ies) are brought to justice and found guilty in this case. Abby & Libby, their families and loved ones, and the community of Delphi deserve it and I'd love to see it for them as well.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

Today would be a good day for SCOIN to drop the judgement if they are serious about getting this case back on track.

 

[sunshineray]

It says nothing to me until they elaborate. That same statement from a lower court could be interpreted as a yes/no decision, but at a supreme court level it's more likely to be a "that's not our problem" decision.

And would that not still be a unanimous vote to not disqualify JG?

 

[sunshineray]

I had both of them on my early POI list. I was curious as to why BH would bring up PW to LE when questioned about the murders. I could understand questioning LH (and even BH) due to the connection with Abby, (though even that is somewhat odd, if Abby’s family wasn’t aware she was friends with LH).

Was BH initially questioned because he was LH’s father, or because the crime scene looked to be staged with Odin symbols? How and who connected PW and BH to the crime? I’ve heard that BP may have suggested it, but I’ve not seen anything confirming that, and it makes me uncomfortable to discuss it since she cannot speak to anything about her granddaughter‘s murder due to the gag order.

Both probably, IMO, BH's son and BH's branches.

 

[sunshineray]

Today would be a good day for SCOIN to drop the judgement if they are serious about getting this case back on track.

Do they rule first and then write?

 

[girlhasnoname]

Tomorrow is Felony Friday, we may see something big happening then. I still think there is movement behind the scenes going on here.

 

[Ward Thisperer]

he point was, there was at least forensics on the one hand, or a direct connection to someone who was close to the victim and (weak) evidence of a motive. This later collapsed at trial when the alibi evidence was presented to the jury.

Here i feel like we don't have anything that implicates BH at all. Rather just some propensity reasoning that because an odinist did it, and he is an odinist therefore he is a real possibility as the killer.

SBM - direct connection to someone who was close to the victim — like his son being the bf of Abby?
The pieces of evidence that implicate BH are circumstantial, yes, but are about his postings on FB at the time such as drawings of bodies under a tree with sticks arranged on top of them like runes. This is not DNA evidence, but was investigated and thought to be significant by members of LE.
Personally I’m not convinced of the BH theory, but I don’t see any reason to discard this piece of info as if it’s not relevant at all.

Oh, and while I'm perusing hundreds of pages of the Discovery Dump, SC (not BB) is the one who saw BG=RA on CRN300. She was driving east, he was walking west. Her statement according to all of the affidavits submitted by LE stated she saw a "man wearing blue jeans and a blue jacket who looked muddy and bloody, like he might have been in a fight".

Where did it ever get started that she said Tan jacket??? Oh, let me guess, the FM by the Defense.

MOO

p116 of the FM, B&R cite the timestamp where they say she says it was a tan jacket

Where's the pro bono lawyer advocates for these men? Just remarkable. Guess they need to be arrested first.

My guess is that if they had any case to sue the D, they’d have lawyers jumping at the chance to take the case and get their cut. However, it seems they don’t have any case.

As an aside, it looks like according to para 8 of the discovery protection order, MW should have signed an agreement to receive any portion of it, and agree to the Court's jurisdiction and get prior Court permission, unless he was an investigator or expert of the defence under para 6

I suspect this is why AB did not fess up to showing him the Franks (and whatever else) which contains portions of the discovery pasted in. Merely discussing 'trial strategy" would not breach the order.

That doesn’t follow because the FM isn’t a portion of discovery, its work product. Some discovery material is contained in the exhibits and marked as confidential.

Was BH initially questioned because he was LH’s father, or because the crime scene looked to be staged with Odin symbols? How and who connected PW and BH to the crime? I’ve heard that BP may have suggested it, but I’ve not seen anything confirming that, and it makes me uncomfortable to discuss it since she cannot speak to anything about her granddaughter‘s murder due to the gag order.

According to the FM p81 someone called in a tip soon after the murders based on what BH was posting on FB

 

[steeltowngirl]

Why are innocent people ever framed? We know it happens.

What a coincidence that the only photos that had turned up at the time of the FM are the 3 of the cartridge still in the ground and 1 of a cartridge in the lab. Maybe they had some kind of camera malfunction?

The cartridge is a biggie for the P... what if they found, after being so sure that RA's their guy, that the bullet at the scene did not match the test bullets from his gun?

Would they just shrug their shoulders and say "Oh, well... guess we just can't place him on the bridge now"

If the allegation is that LE has framed RA and avoided BH due to a thin blue line / Odins in LE.. then.. of all the people they could have framed - why RA? They could have laid this on RL and been done with it. GK, DN, JE, or a host of others. Why choose RA?

 

[girlhasnoname]

I had both of them on my early POI list. I was curious as to why BH would bring up PW to LE when questioned about the murders. I could understand questioning LH (and even BH) due to the connection with Abby, (though even that is somewhat odd, if Abby’s family wasn’t aware she was friends with LH).

Was BH initially questioned because he was LH’s father, or because the crime scene looked to be staged with Odin symbols? How and who connected PW and BH to the crime? I’ve heard that BP may have suggested it, but I’ve not seen anything confirming that, and it makes me uncomfortable to discuss it since she cannot speak to anything about her granddaughter‘s murder due to the gag order.

Me too STG. BH & PW were investigated up one side and down the other IMO. LE does have written copies of their statements just not recorded audio right?

Just think if LE could have cleared the case in 5 days with the arrest of these 2??? Of course they would have jumped at the chance and been the heroes bringing resolution to not only Abby and Libby and their families but people across the US.

Instead they (LE, ISP, FBI) have lagged behind almost 6 years and have been called every name in the book from stupid, liars, inept, incompetent, criminals, conspirators, and some I can't even repeat here. All of law enforcement have conspired to frame totally innocent RA when they had much better suspects before. I don't get it.

JMO