Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #176

[sunshineray]

Have the audio recordings or transcripts of those recorded been released?

Of course not, it's evidence for the trial and a jury. There's a gag order in place, wouldn't releasing that now be a violation of that court order?

 

[sunshineray]

Have the audio recordings or transcripts of these five confessions been released?

Just answered the same question you asked it in a previous post.

 

[sunshineray]

Katana swords are Japanese samurai swords, like you said. How they are used in this show, I don’t know.

If I remember correctly, there is a samurai type character in the show.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Anyone here get a chance to watch Crime Nation? If so, care to share your thoughts? Or maybe no one is interested in watching it, anyway, TIA?

I caught the last half hour. It was ok. Rick Snay was on; I am not a fan of him. It did present both “sides” and didn’t lean into RA’s guilt; maybe leaned into his potential innocence. There was a weird and tasteless remark about RA farting in a grocery line or something. I think it was a joke of some sort.

It’s just all weird now. I can remember years ago when we were begging 20/20 or 48 hours or any media to cover the case. I think it was Dr Oz or Dr Phil who first covered it.

 

[Marzipan]

So their killer not only told on himself for being at MHB while wearing jeans and a bleu or black jacket that fateful day but he also kept the bullet chambered through his gun at the Crime Scene in that special trinket box on the dresser plus he left one unspent shell buried in the ground at their CS? He also kept the gun he used to facilitate their kidnapping from Monon High Bridge that chambered the aforementioned bullets?

RA should have just wrapped his toys and presented the evidence on a silver platter.

I’m hoping he kept the boots too. Silver platter or evidence bag, they could tie to footprints — part of the crime scene investigation I can’t recall ever being revealed.

 

[DeDee]

because:

1) at the time CCSO was focused on another theory (RL)
2) all focus on Libby's phone video and RL was a match
3) the EF lead came from outside CCSO and CCSO regularly kept outside support at bay
4) the team that worked the Rushville gang leads, passed them to CCSO ... and CCSO failed/chose not to follow up
5) CCSO rejected outside help and expertise when legions of help and high expertise was critically necessary.
6) the locals were (unwittingly) permitted to contaminate the crime scene.

pick one or all.

I have been struggling with these same questions. More recently, it became clearer to me the assumptions behind my analysis, behind my questions ... were incorrect.

For example. Your questions logically assume a standard LE environment.

But if we look back and form questions with the assumption that CCSO operated with the competence expected from a metro police organization - what if we're using the wrong filter? Using the wrong assumptions?

As discovery is revealed, it's being confirmed that assumed standards of competence and practice, the ability to team with outside experts and to take advantage of expertise did not exist at Delphi/CCSO.

(IMO, we tend to make the same mistaken assumptions with the CC court in this case. )

I've grown weary of generosity towards CCSO's disaster of an investigation regarding those critical first days. IMO, CCSO (albeit unintentionally) failed A & L.

Delphi is a small town ... CCSO was not up to this herculean task (both re: forensics and leads) and was not open to expert help ... and so ... it is very frustrating but ... is what it is.

We no know that the investigation missed follow-through on critical leads handed to them in the first weeks, and destroyed taped interviews. And that this investigation failed to let the crime scene speak by blocking the experts that do "speak" crime scene, by failing to protect evidence and chains of custody, and by permitting site contamination.

JMHO



Carrying forward the idea that we might need to change our filter ... perhaps there need be no wider conspiracy. There is just incompetence and the inability to publicly acknowledge it. And the unspoken rule to avoid blowing mistakes in until absolutely necessary (deposition/testimony).

(The scale of incompetence is slowly coming out from ex-members of the larger command; it was bound to; they'll all be on the stand describing the incompetence ... because it's also their job to tell the truth under oath.)

for example: I'm LE in Rushville and I field local leads, do initial legwork and conduct and tape initial interviews of witnesses and possible suspects and lie detectors and alibis and collect phones and write search warrants for phones and put it all together in reports and pass them to CCSO and ... it is normal for me to think my work here is done and CCSO will follow-up.

The fact that CCSO never followed up - is something we've learned years into this case ... from depositions. That's doesn't need to be a conspiracy. That can just be weak police work.

JMHO

It's a good post, Emma Peel.

I would add that along with CCSO making major blunders, such as losing recorded interviews of important witnesses and denying the ability to house RA but is quite capable of transporting him to and from court, but we also have the Judge to look at here as another cause for chaos. Chaos causes delays because the confusion must be straightened out as the SCION did recently by forcing JG to tighten the record and SCION may need to do it again.

Look at case law at the copious amounts of filings in this case. 100's? Case experts may have trouble keeping up -- <modsnip> and JG denies everything the D requests and does so without a law backing her opinion in a decision. JG flagrantly denies hearings on the matters. I've not seen anything quite like it.

I know thousands of cases have Defense attorneys whose briefs and motions are denied but this particular Judge does not hide her bias. She's operating the system with Carte Blanche'.

MOO

 

[Emma Peel]

It's a good post, Emma Peel.

I would add that along with CCSO making major blunders, such as losing recorded interviews of important witnesses and denying the ability to house RA but is quite capable of transporting him to and from court, but we also have the Judge to look at here as another cause for chaos. Chaos causes delays because the confusion must be straightened out as the SCION did recently by forcing JG to tighten the record and SCION may need to do it again.

Look at case law at the copious amounts of filings in this case. 100's? Case experts may have trouble keeping up -- <modsnip> and JG denies everything the D requests and does so without a law backing her opinion in a decision. JG flagrantly denies hearings on the matters. I've not seen anything quite like it.

I know thousands of cases have Defense attorneys whose briefs and motions are denied but this particular Judge does not hide her bias. She's operating the system with Carte Blanche'.

MOO

Thanks and yes - I agree that at the judicial level we have a similar problem - not ready for prime time.

The problem at the CCSO level is somewhat understandable, and likely unintentional. They were an inexperienced team hit by a tornado followed by a tsunami and some wrong leadership turns.

However at the court level, a hot mess lays at the foot of one jurist, who has set a very low bar for herself and barely meets it.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I believe RA basically did just that. I wonder if the missing underwear and sock were found during the SW? That would be the icing on the cake. He told CO he was there that day, no LE came knocking on his door after that so he probably thought he had gotten away with the murders.

Nobody can explain why killers do any of things they do. Most profilers say they tend to keep trophies from their crime(s) in order to relive the experience.

JMO

I doubt those missing items were found during the SW because they weren't listed as being taken from the property IIRC. That cake is gonna' have to remain with no icing, IMO.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Well, last time I checked, we’re ALL theorizing. I’ve read plenty of theories here. Mine just happens to include the possibility of a conspiracy. If RA is guilty of involvement along with others, why isn’t he striking a plea deal and rolling over on the rest of them? I’m as sure as I am that I’m sitting here typing, that one man did not do all that was done that dreadful day. EF knows who else is involved and that’s why they dropped that ball, IMO. I believe it was intentional to protect others they are associated with. Not all LE, but some. It wouldn’t be the first time justice gets perverted because of “connections.”

That’s all I have to say on that and it’s all MOO .

I damned sure am not a conspiracy theorist and IMO no one on here should be implying others are. Posters should be allowed (within TOS) to voice their opinions without backlash from someone who doesn't agree with their view... it's called respectfully disagreeing. Scroll and roll works most of the time.

I share a lot of your views, but for me; I want to hear and see all of the evidence before I decide. 6th amendment! When it's all said and done, none of our theories will mean squat. JMO and entitled to it.

 

[Boxer]

Well, last time I checked, we’re ALL theorizing. I’ve read plenty of theories here. Mine just happens to include the possibility of a conspiracy. If RA is guilty of involvement along with others, why isn’t he striking a plea deal and rolling over on the rest of them? I’m as sure as I am that I’m sitting here typing, that one man did not do all that was done that dreadful day. EF knows who else is involved and that’s why they dropped that ball, IMO. I believe it was intentional to protect others they are associated with. Not all LE, but some. It wouldn’t be the first time justice gets perverted because of “connections.”

That’s all I have to say on that and it’s all MOO .

MOO, one man with a gun vs two young teens.
Crime easily committed by one man.

 

[mrjitty]

Not that I think the judge probably knew about it, but i do wonder if Ausbrook's strong criticisms of the Court in podcasts like the MS was very helpful to his cause.

 

[sunshineray]

because:

1) at the time CCSO was focused on another theory (RL)
2) all focus on Libby's phone video and RL was a match
3) the EF lead came from outside CCSO and CCSO regularly kept outside support at bay
4) the team that worked the Rushville gang leads, passed them to CCSO ... and CCSO failed/chose not to follow up
5) CCSO rejected outside help and expertise when legions of help and high expertise was critically necessary.
6) the locals were (unwittingly) permitted to contaminate the crime scene.

pick one or all.

I have been struggling with these same questions. More recently, it became clearer to me the assumptions behind my analysis, behind my questions ... were incorrect.

For example. Your questions logically assume a standard LE environment.

But if we look back and form questions with the assumption that CCSO operated with the competence expected from a metro police organization - what if we're using the wrong filter? Using the wrong assumptions?

As discovery is revealed, it's being confirmed that assumed standards of competence and practice, the ability to team with outside experts and to take advantage of expertise did not exist at Delphi/CCSO.

(IMO, we tend to make the same mistaken assumptions with the CC court in this case. )

I've grown weary of generosity towards CCSO's disaster of an investigation regarding those critical first days. IMO, CCSO (albeit unintentionally) failed A & L.

Delphi is a small town ... CCSO was not up to this herculean task (both re: forensics and leads) and was not open to expert help ... and so ... it is very frustrating but ... is what it is.

We no know that the investigation missed follow-through on critical leads handed to them in the first weeks, and destroyed taped interviews. And that this investigation failed to let the crime scene speak by blocking the experts that do "speak" crime scene, by failing to protect evidence and chains of custody, and by permitting site contamination.

JMHO



Carrying forward the idea that we might need to change our filter ... perhaps there need be no wider conspiracy. There is just incompetence and the inability to publicly acknowledge it. And the unspoken rule to avoid blowing mistakes in until absolutely necessary (deposition/testimony).

(The scale of incompetence is slowly coming out from ex-members of the larger command; it was bound to; they'll all be on the stand describing the incompetence ... because it's also their job to tell the truth under oath.)

for example: I'm LE in Rushville and I field local leads, do initial legwork and conduct and tape initial interviews of witnesses and possible suspects and lie detectors and alibis and collect phones and write search warrants for phones and put it all together in reports and pass them to CCSO and ... it is normal for me to think my work here is done and CCSO will follow-up.

The fact that CCSO never followed up - is something we've learned years into this case ... from depositions. That's doesn't need to be a conspiracy. That can just be weak police work.

JMHO

Do you have any links to this Rushville information besides the Frank's Memo?

Do you have any links that these Odinists weren't interviewed and alibis vetted besides the Franks Memo?

I would love to read about all that in something besides the Franks Memo. TIA

 

[girlhasnoname]

Not that I think the judge probably knew about it, but i do wonder if Ausbrook's strong criticisms of the Court in podcasts like the MS was very helpful to his cause.

The Defense Attorneys, Appellate Attorneys and now Ausbrrok and Hennessy have all been spouting barely disguised disdain for the Judge, The Court, and the State's Prosecutor. I believe they think it's a game, it is not. Show some respect to the very legal system in which you have sworn an oath to uphold ethically.

We are talking about the heinous double murder of 2 innocent young girls. If anyone has forgotten about Abby & Libby, I'd say it's them.

It will backfire in the long run when the trial is over and RA (and ?) is found guilty. How are they going to get their clicks and likes and $$$ for their book deals (BMcD), podcasts, and tv appearances when the public has their verdict and finally #Justice4Abby&Libby?

They will be long forgotten, except for their actions and words, which are forever recorded in their unprofessional Memos and Motions and possible Contempt Charges.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I doubt those missing items were found during the SW because they weren't listed as being taken from the property IIRC. That cake is gonna' have to remain with no icing, IMO.

At least until trial when all the evidence the State has against Defendant Allen is presented.

moo

 

[sunshineray]

So their killer not only told on himself for being at MHB while wearing jeans and a bleu or black jacket that fateful day but he also kept the bullet chambered through his gun at the Crime Scene in that special trinket box on the dresser plus he left one unspent shell buried in the ground at their CS? He also kept the gun he used to facilitate their kidnapping from Monon High Bridge that chambered the aforementioned bullets?

RA should have just wrapped his toys and presented the evidence on a silver platter.

Pretty remarkable isn't it. You left out the icing, then he confessed no less than five times to his wife and mother. That's like a bow on top!
Of course AJMO.

 

[susiQ]

MOO, one man with a gun vs two young teens.
Crime easily committed by one man.

Perhaps, if he’d used the gun, but he didn’t. By all accounts, this was a labour intensive murder and staging. I can’t for one minute believe this was done by one man. Not in anyway trying to be offensive, but LG was not light. JMHO

 

[susiQ]

Pretty remarkable isn't it. You left out the icing, then he confessed no less than five times to his wife and mother. That's like a bow on top!
Of course AJMO.

I think it’s just a bit premature to call the confessions a “bow” on top without knowing the exact circumstances under which they we made. No icing, no bow…..yet. JMHO

 

[twall]

DENY (Summary Denial Motion from Ausbrook)
DENY (Defense Counsel's request for Clarification regarding Contempt Hearing)
and
ORDER for RA TRANSPORT to March 18th Hearing

View attachment 485006

9:00 am hearing is for contempt, what is the 2:00 pm hearing in regards to?

 

[Cyber sleuth]

w

Perhaps, if he’d used the gun, but he didn’t. By all accounts, this was a labour intensive murder and staging. I can’t for one minute believe this was done by one man. Not in anyway trying to be offensive, but LG was not light. JMHO

My understanding is he absolutely did use a gun to intimidate the girls into doing whatever he demanded. He could have easily made one girl restrain the other almost immediately and lead them to the crime scene where he did as he pleased and left them murdered. There is no evidence he had to carry anyone to execute the crime.
As much as I hate typing this he could have directed one girl to undress/redress the other or even stage the other.
IMO the gun is visible on the photo still of BG. IMO the sound of the gun being cocked is heard in the “ down the hill” clip and a a matching bullet was found at the crime scene.
He chose a sharp instrument to murder them because that was his preference. It’s up close and personal and IMO had a sexual component to it. And it’s quiet.
Discharging a gun in that area could have raised alarm.

 

[mrjitty]

Pretty remarkable isn't it. You left out the icing, then he confessed no less than five times to his wife and mother. That's like a bow on top!
Of course AJMO.

A free gift at least. I am trying to imagine other cases I have followed where the accused then made confessions/admission on tape - it's pretty bad for the defence on any view compared to not doing that