Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #176

[Emma Peel]

Hear the full breakdown from Michael Moore, Assistant Executive Director of the Indiana Public Defender Council...

LISTEN: Delphi Prosecutor Accesses Private Defense Motions, Interview with Public Defender Council​

LISTEN: Delphi Prosecutor Accesses Private Defense Motions, Interview with Public Defender Council

 

[twall]

FWIW, I thought:
The P's witness and exhibit list was provided to the D as an exhibit to the Contempt motion filing back aways. And this information confirms that's the list and there's no more at this time.

(Above is from memory as - I'm not easily able to check the record atm. Should be easy to check.)

JMHO

This?

2024 02 14 - Notice of Discovery For Contemptuous Hearing - Delphi in - Ra PDF | PDF | Discovery (Law) | Witness

2024-02-14 | Notice to Court Filed | Notice of Discovery for Contemptuous Hearing | Delphi, Indiana, Carroll County, Richard Allen, Brad Holder, Patrick Westfall | Allen County, Allen Superior Court, Michael K. Ausbrook, Bradley Rozzi, Andrew Baldwin, Nicholas McLeland, James Luttrell, Judge...

www.scribd.com

Here is the contempt motion

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2024/01/Allen-Verified-Info-of-Contempt.pdf

 

[Emma Peel]

Topical:
A lot of (TV) news tonight regarding Delphi Defense Exparte materials being in hands of the Prosecution.

Here are relevant sections from the Rules of Professional Conduct for attorneys in the state of Indiana. (These rules provide ethical guidelines and standards for the conduct of lawyers practicing law in Indiana.)

Indiana Professional Conduct Rules 4.4 and 8.4(d).

 

[susiQ]

Topical:
A lot of (TV) news tonight regarding Delphi Defense Exparte materials being in hands of the Prosecution.

Here are relevant sections from the Rules of Professional Conduct for attorneys in the state of Indiana. (These rules provide ethical guidelines and standards for the conduct of lawyers practicing law in Indiana.)

Indiana Professional Conduct Rules 4.4 and 8.4(d).

View attachment 489060

View attachment 489058

My thoughts? Nick should accept he’s not the man to prosecute this case and show himself to the door so a special prosecutor can be appointed and he can save a little face. It won’t be much, but a little is better than nothing. JMHO

 

[GoBuckeyes]

The thing is, what about a woman who absolutely believes in her husband’s innocence? Yes, RA “confessed” but I haven’t heard it and I suspect it was under a great deal of pressure, in that he perceived his family or even he himself was in imminent danger of harm, no matter if it was real or merely perceived.

If my late husband had been arrested for murder, and I knew (or absolutely believed in my heart) there was no way he did this heinous act and he then confessed to me on the phone, I too would have hung up, because I would have immediately suspected something was very, VERY wrong, and I would want to protect him from saying more. KA is not a stupid woman. She stands by her husband because she believes he is innocent. RA has not been convicted, at least not in a court of law.

As well, if any members on this thread had a loved one falsely accused in a prison (where he/she didn’t even belong at this point in time), guarded by dubious characters, medicated with God only knows what, losing weight by the week, how would you feel? I hope none here have to experience that circumstance, helpless, unable to comfort and support that loved one. All, JMO.
ETA - If 4 defence attorneys believe him to be innocent, why shouldn’t his wife?

Well said!

 

[Melted]

My thoughts? Nick should accept he’s not the man to prosecute this case and show himself to the door so a special prosecutor can be appointed and he can save a little face. It won’t be much, but a little is better than nothing. JMHO

I fully agree. It’s perplexing to me why with everything that’s gone on already they don’t just drop the charges and refile them with a clean slate and a special prosecutor.

This is already an appeal attorneys dream and there isn’t even a trial date set yet.

JMO

 

[Caylee Advocate]

"With the attorneys questioning their ability to properly defend, Mr. Allen, which they certainly are very capable of doing so. It is a distraction. I mean that's the biggest concern, is that they're having to take time to now defend themselves in a contempt petition rather than focusing on defending their client," Moore said.

Snipped from article:


Moore says he's concerned as these allegations were made a year ago and are being brought out into the public again.

Focusing on the potential of influencing jurors and their ability to be fair to the state or Allen when the case goes to trial.

"I think choosing a jury is going to be difficult was going to be difficult from day one, just because of the all of the publicity because these these these events that have occurred that have nothing to do with Mr. Allen in terms of what he's been doing," Moore said.

Seven years since Delphi murders, trial expected in the fall

Today marks the seventh anniversary of Delphi teenagers, Abby Williams and Libby German bodies found after their gruseome murders,, with the trial for alleged

wsbt.com

 

[susiQ]

I fully agree. It’s perplexing to me why with everything that’s gone on already they don’t just drop the charges and refile them with a clean slate and a special prosecutor.

This is already an appeal attorneys dream and there isn’t even a trial date set yet.

JMO

I’ll share my dream. A special prosecutor is appointed, looks at the discovery and says, “What the heck?? Baldwin and Rozzi are onto something!” Drops the charges, tells LE to get back to work and investigate the POI’s they failed to pursue the first time around.

Just kidding (but not really)

 

[DeDee]

I don't think all 5 confessions were to his wife. IIRC he confessed 5x in total, to his wife and his mother. So it could have been just twice to his wife, who hung up on him the 1st time, I believe.

So maybe he called again at a later time and she asked him about it?

RA confessed on APR 3 and hasn't made a phone call since. [June 28, 2023 date on MSM]

"Allen “has admitted that he committed the offenses that he is charged with no less than 5 times while talking to his wife and his mother on the public jail phones available at the Indiana Department of Corrections,” according to < > Allen’s mental health records.

Allen’s attorneys argued that he’s under great physical and mental duress because of his time in captivity and don’t believe his admission is reliable. Prosecutors countered, however, that Allen’s behavior changed drastically after the April 3 admission. He hasn’t made a single phone call since then, and had to undergo a psychiatric evaluation.

The documents reveal, among other things, that Allen admitted to his wife during a phone call that he was responsible for killing the teens."
Delphi documents: Richard Allen told wife he killed girls; investigators believe knife used in murders

Back in the summer 2023 is when everyone noticed the marked declining health condition RA appeared to be in when he appeared in court. He weighed 120 pounds. I think he was slobbering. He was being guarded by an Odinist guard at Westville who was forced to remove his Odin patch from his guard uniform so the guard got an Odin tattoo on his face in its place. Nice dude, right?

"[William] Lebrato says he’s handled 75-100 murder cases and taken 35-50 of them to trial, including several death penalty cases, but in his 25-year career, he’s never seen a pre-trial defendant treated as harshly as Richard Allen.

“His hands were handcuffed to some box connected to his chest. I mean, it looked so horribly uncomfortable. I couldn’t shake his hand. I couldn’t have him sign anything. They refused to unshackle him for our safety...”
EXCLUSIVE: Richard Allen's former defense attorney doubts he'll get a fair trial

 

[DeDee]

RSBMFF
But what the hell happened after “down the hill?” Was it just him all the way? Did he plan this? How were the girls controlled by one man during some bizarre acting out? Did the Antony Shots account figure in how RA knew to be there with his abduction kit? Were there others in the woods? Were they pedos or Odinists? The sticks and blood smears—what’s all that? I almost can’t imagine the scenario after “down the hill.” If I’m a juror in a DP case I want it all to make sense.

Not everything in a murder investigation will make sense. Right? We know it was horrific DTH. The case has become a legal quagmire at the moment. It will be up to the Jury to decide how the pieces fit together. The Voir Dire, or selection and rejection of jurors, will be important to assure to weed out impurities and biases, amap. They've got to get this right for Abby and Libby. Next Hearing is March 18.

We finished a trial in the brutal murder of JenniferDulos recently. Before dismissing the Alternates for the Jury's deliberations to begin, JudgeRandolph, slowly and sincerely, informed them he hoped what they experienced in the trial was not something they could not successfully overcome. In saying this, he politely acknowledged the trauma that can be found in murder cases and offered strength to those who remain.

 

[snooptroop88]

hat, if RA had his Sig Sauer hidden in the MHB area somewhere and only took it, when he had already passed the 3 (4?) girls (witnesses)

Am also wondering on this, but at the point the girls note a gun, unless there's more video to see (and I'm guessing there is), I wouldn't think that gun outline would be obvious to anyone at the point where the current video ends with the "down the hill." Could definitely be wrong on this, but picturing myself on the same place on that bridge, I can't picture myself knowing already that outline in pocket's a gun. I think someone else may have had a gun actually drawn, and someone on here also wonders like you do if he didn't move the gun to where it appears to be (?) now in the video at some point. The video may have more to offer when the full video is available, but the tiny portion of video we have is such poor quality I almost do view this as a BG Rorschach right now. I see straws and mics and others see goggles and binoculars. The thing is, though, any little potential insight on the clothing and so forth is just so, so valuable because that's an actual image of the killer. Most of the time, something like that isn't going to be available to begin with. And I'd rather speculate on the image, as poor as it is, than worry about what the lawyers do next because they're making such a spectacle of this trial, it's beyond belief. Agreed with the person who noted that this is guaranteed fodder for appeals, but they'd happen anyway if there's a conviction. MOO, I worry only about the attorneys to the extent that they derail justice, and they're not usually going to be able to do that, not on either side. Evidence wins and loses cases, not attorneys. The case wouldn't be going to trial if sufficient evidence weren't there to at least make a case. Whether it's good enough evidence to convict is up to the jury to decide. I'll worry about lawyers if one ends up on a bridge after murdering two young girls, or as a defendant in such a case.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Hmmmm...why no deets like the defense's list?

The document says: ... "outlining the witnesses the State may call and the exhibits the State may use at trial."
I'm assuming that's why we aren't given the details.

 

[girlhasnoname]

If you hollowed out an average paperback and stuffed 7 rolls of pennies into it you'd be close to the weight & size. Full size service pistol, widely carried on the hip by LE and others.

Very doable, especially for someone with experience in carrying guns. It would be second nature IMO. Although, as I've stated before, I believe RA had the gun tucked into his waistband until he reached the MHB and got the girls in sight.

A simple switch from his waistband to his jacket pocket would take 2-3 seconds. Again, very doable and not like he was walking around the trails the entire time with the gun 'hangin' down' in his front pocket.

moo

EBM: deleted word

 

[girlhasnoname]

FWIW, I thought:
The P's witness and exhibit list was provided to the D as an exhibit to the Contempt motion filing back aways. And this information confirms that's the list and there's no more at this time.

(Above is from memory as - I'm not easily able to check the record atm. Should be easy to check.)

JMHO

This from the Exhibit provided by the State:

'The State may supplement the list if new witnesses and/or exhibits are obtained or if the State deems that additional witnesses and/or exhibits are necessary.'

 

[girlhasnoname]

Only at this moment? She should probably charge the State for her services as official records custodian at this point.

Why would an appellate attorney (CW) whose representation and case to the SCOIN is over even consider it her responsibility to serve as official records custodian?

This is the thing that has me perplexed. It appears to me they all want to stay involved and spotlighted on SM, talk shows, etc as connected to this case. I have never seen this before, maybe it's bringing in some additional $$$ business for them. IDK

jmo

 

[FromGermany1]

Why You Need an Appellate Lawyer on Your Trial Team - Elizabeth Franklin - Best

Do you need an appellate lawyer on your trial team? Your appellate attorney can help to frame the issues raised and to preserve issues for a possible appeal

elizabethfranklinbest.com

If you’ve followed any high-profile criminal trials in the media in recent years, you may have noticed that the defendant doesn’t just have one criminal defense attorney standing by them in the courtroom. When the defendant can afford it, there is a team of attorneys that the defendant or their lead counsel has chosen to help with their defense.

bbm
I don't understand at all, why RA has 3 attorneys at his disposal. I couldn't find an explanation until now, and I have to ask here on forum, sorry.

ETA: Is someone mysterious paying for RA's defense??

 

[FrostedGlass]

Why You Need an Appellate Lawyer on Your Trial Team - Elizabeth Franklin - Best

Do you need an appellate lawyer on your trial team? Your appellate attorney can help to frame the issues raised and to preserve issues for a possible appeal

elizabethfranklinbest.com

If you’ve followed any high-profile criminal trials in the media in recent years, you may have noticed that the defendant doesn’t just have one criminal defense attorney standing by them in the courtroom. When the defendant can afford it, there is a team of attorneys that the defendant or their lead counsel has chosen to help with their defense.

bbm
I don't understand at all, why RA has 3 attorneys at his disposal. I couldn't find an explanation until now, and I have to ask here on forum, sorry.

ETA: Is someone mysterious paying for RA's defense??

Are you referring to Hennessy? His involvement is in the R&B contempt charge.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Why You Need an Appellate Lawyer on Your Trial Team - Elizabeth Franklin - Best

Do you need an appellate lawyer on your trial team? Your appellate attorney can help to frame the issues raised and to preserve issues for a possible appeal

elizabethfranklinbest.com

If you’ve followed any high-profile criminal trials in the media in recent years, you may have noticed that the defendant doesn’t just have one criminal defense attorney standing by them in the courtroom. When the defendant can afford it, there is a team of attorneys that the defendant or their lead counsel has chosen to help with their defense.

bbm
I don't understand at all, why RA has 3 attorneys at his disposal. I couldn't find an explanation until now, and I have to ask here on forum, sorry.

ETA: Is someone mysterious paying for RA's defense??

Hennessy is Baldwin's friend who represented him by Motion for AB not to be disqualified in the Judge Gull chambers meeting in Oct. Looks like he's signed on for more.

 

[FromGermany1]

Are you referring to Hennessee? His involvement is in the R&B contempt charge.

I thought of appellate attorney CW .....

 

[girlhasnoname]

I thought of appellate attorney CW .....

Good question, did they provide their services pro bono since they were so deeply moved by the injustice RA was suffering? I truly do not know the answer to this, but I'm sure someone here might.