Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #177

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
I'm just quick-posting as a place holder so my sign-ins to this forum arrive at this new thread.

That being noted - wishing a Happy New Thread, a speedy trial, and a good day to all; like many, I lost an hour today (spring forward) and now I'm gonna lose another 4 hours watching the red carpet and the oscars and I insist I am NOT GUILTY of squandering precious time on the shortest of days so that's all I've got for today. Also we all gained 24 hours this leap year, so I still have 19 hours to waste this year. Enjoy. :)
 
Last edited:
I would consider it to be a sneaky D plan but history leads me to think incompetence. There is incompetence every way you turn here. The P either intended to get caught or didn't know any better. JG has given some the impression of being biased, and even more question her competence. All this coming on the tails of what is arguably one of the least competent double homicide investigations in modern memory.

All JMHO
My money's on the Court (clerk level) messing up records.

Even so ... EX PARTE means communication to Court submitted under seal and protected from the opposing counsel. A clerk's error gives no cover to McL to go rogue against basic ethical standards and the Indiana Rules of Conduct for officers of the court.

IMO there's been signs of incompetence in this error-prone Court at the clerk level (as to records etc) - but at the same time - McL cannot argue that he missed his freshman law school class where the meaning of and obligations surrounding ex parte is learned by new baby lawyers-to-be that lawyers shall not take advantage of privilege comms errors made by the court or the opposition. (moo as to my quick version of the standard)

IMO there's no acceptable McL excuse that explain his ethical error here - not even his tacit admissions as he seeks to benefit from ex parte knowledge he should know he should NOT have. Just none. For example,

<modsnip: name calling>

I would hope Gull follows up with McL's big boo-boo and plays reasonable and fair with sanctions on both sides and MOVES THE HECK FORWARD TO SPEEDY TRIAL.

Let's go!

JMHO

sorry I lied about not posting more today.
What shall I wear for the red carpet tonight? my pjs or my comfy sweats?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You are a stronger person than most. I don’t think D would have resisted if it was reversed.
Why couldn’t D learn to file motions properly. I mean JG went over it in chambers. I thought AB was using weaponized incompetence in regards
to incorrectly filing the Frank’s motion. But now it looks like it’s been an ongoing problem.
Why didn’t the fix it then? Did they mean to let P know their strategy? These seems very incompetent IMO
There is more to this than meets the eye IMO.
 
My money's on the Court (clerk level) messing up records.

Even so ... EX PARTE means communication to Court submitted under seal and protected from the opposing counsel. A clerk's error gives no cover to McL to go rogue against basic ethical standards and the Indiana Rules of Conduct for officers of the court.

IMO there's been signs of incompetence in this error-prone Court at the clerk level (as to records etc) - but at the same time - McL cannot argue that he missed his freshman law school class where the meaning of and obligations surrounding ex parte is learned by new baby lawyers-to-be that lawyers shall not take advantage of privilege comms errors made by the court or the opposition. (moo as to my quick version of the standard)

IMO there's no acceptable McL excuse that explain his ethical error here - not even his tacit admissions as he seeks to benefit from ex parte knowledge he should know he should NOT have. Just none. For example,

<modsnip: name calling>

I would hope Gull follows up with McL's big boo-boo and plays reasonable and fair with sanctions on both sides and MOVES THE HECK FORWARD TO SPEEDY TRIAL.

Let's go!

JMHO

sorry I lied about not posting more today.
What shall I wear for the red carpet tonight? my pjs or my comfy sweats?

So is it like just because I left the keys in my car ignition doesn’t mean you have the right to take my car?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I would consider it to be a sneaky D plan but history leads me to think incompetence. There is incompetence every way you turn here. The P either intended to get caught or didn't know any better. JG has given some the impression of being biased, and even more question her competence. All this coming on the tails of what is arguably one of the least competent double homicide investigations in modern memory.

All JMHO
Right?
I wouldn’t want the other party to know I was hiring a confessions expert.
I certainly wouldn’t have waited almost 11 months from the time of confessions to start trying to get an expert opinion.
I certainly wouldn’t have waited until right before trial to ask for funds to hire one unless I could guarantee their testimony would be favorable to my client.
Maybe something in recent discovery that was provided by p triggered this move. Did he confess again?
 
Right?
I wouldn’t want the other party to know I was hiring a confessions expert.
I certainly wouldn’t have waited almost 11 months from the time of confessions to start trying to get an expert opinion.
I certainly wouldn’t have waited until right before trial to ask for funds to hire one unless I could guarantee their testimony would be favorable to my client.
Maybe something in recent discovery that was provided by p triggered this move. Did he confess again?

Of course if they end up using this expert, it will end up in discovery at the end of the day

I was wondering about this because they have difficulty putting this issue into evidence unless RA or his wife are going to testify. The kind of wild conspiracy theory in the Franks is not so easy to present at trial where you need actual witnesses. Like who is going to be able to say "yeah RA confessed because he'd been coerced" if not RA?
 
<modsnip: quoted post was removed> To me the car's a slightly flawed analogy. It's not theft. I see it more like a kid sitting behind another kid in class, copying the test answers. Moral & ethical failure for sure; but like copying the answers from an F student, not terribly helpful. And then he got caught.

By and large not hugely impactful, IMHO, other than to NM's reputation.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Have been studying this very basic little map here: Delphi murders - Google My Maps

To end up at the point where the victims were ultimately found, they had to cross that creek. Why make it so they had to cross the creek? Why create that very difficult extra step? Had this been one person that committed this crime, there's no way I think there would have been any creek crossing. This was a premeditated attack with multiple perps involved, MOO. MOO: The spot where they'd cross the creek was already arranged: maybe a shallow area, maybe a narrow area where they could put a plank across, maybe stones were laid out for crossing. Again MOO, one of those perps was much younger, and might even have familiarity with either or both of the girls, and this would explain the younger sketch being circulated. One perp's vehicle was probably parked at/near the cemetery that was in the vicinity of where the girls were found. If that were the case, it would make sense to cross the creek. One or perhaps two of the murderers-- probably the muddier, blooder of those involved-- would be leaving via a vehicle parked at that more secluded location. BG approached the victims from behind, but other perp(s) had already trekked over the trail from the opposite direction. By doing this, they could effectively make sure nobody else was in the vicinity on that trail at the time of the attacks. Also by involving multiple perps, you have the possibility that at least one of those perps will have some strange cult-like interests that might have resulted in the rune, strange positioning of articles at the recovery site. If one of the perps was indeed into cult Odinism, the date of the murders is definitely of interest in light of the importance of that date for pagan rituals. And the crossing of the water might be of interest beyond just logistics. Source: "In Norse Mythology, Old Norse literature and Folk traditions there is this recurring theme of having to cross water to reach the afterlife – or the Otherworld." The fact that the bullet recovered from the site was beneath the surface, sort of buried-- that would be of interest with this idea, too. Usually, I don't look for collusion, it's too hard to find because it's too difficult for obscene, perverted, violently dangerous perps to trust each other to keep their mouths shut. But I do wonder if that's not involved here. And they may not all have kept their mouths shut. We don't know who's cooperating with the authorities. JMO, it's interesting that the Marathon gas station noted in association with KK is six minutes from the cemetery. And from what I saw on sources, LE searched the Wabash River with metal detectors. I also wouldn't usually look for Odinism aspects in a crime, either, but with the rune (and it does look like a rune, MOO), the date of the killings, the staging-- I don't think that can be ignored. It had to have some source. Multiple perps could explain that, each bringing his own individual twisted pathology to the scene. Not sure what the common bond would be for the perps, but there is one. I doubt it's the Odinism, though.
 
To me the car's a slightly flawed analogy. It's not theft. I see it more like a kid sitting behind another kid in class, copying the test answers. Moral & ethical failure for sure; but like copying the answers from an F student, not terribly helpful. And then he got caught.

By and large not hugely impactful, IMHO, other than to NM's reputation.
I see it more like a kid sitting next to another kid in science class. One kid puts a box on the shared table and says, "Don't open that box! You can't look in that box!!" The the kid with the box takes the top off.
 
Have been studying this very basic little map here: Delphi murders - Google My Maps

To end up at the point where the victims were ultimately found, they had to cross that creek. Why make it so they had to cross the creek? Why create that very difficult extra step? Had this been one person that committed this crime, there's no way I think there would have been any creek crossing. This was a premeditated attack with multiple perps involved, MOO. MOO: The spot where they'd cross the creek was already arranged: maybe a shallow area, maybe a narrow area where they could put a plank across, maybe stones were laid out for crossing. Again MOO, one of those perps was much younger, and might even have familiarity with either or both of the girls, and this would explain the younger sketch being circulated. One perp's vehicle was probably parked at/near the cemetery that was in the vicinity of where the girls were found. If that were the case, it would make sense to cross the creek. One or perhaps two of the murderers-- probably the muddier, blooder of those involved-- would be leaving via a vehicle parked at that more secluded location. BG approached the victims from behind, but other perp(s) had already trekked over the trail from the opposite direction. By doing this, they could effectively make sure nobody else was in the vicinity on that trail at the time of the attacks. Also by involving multiple perps, you have the possibility that at least one of those perps will have some strange cult-like interests that might have resulted in the rune, strange positioning of articles at the recovery site. If one of the perps was indeed into cult Odinism, the date of the murders is definitely of interest in light of the importance of that date for pagan rituals. And the crossing of the water might be of interest beyond just logistics. Source: "In Norse Mythology, Old Norse literature and Folk traditions there is this recurring theme of having to cross water to reach the afterlife – or the Otherworld." The fact that the bullet recovered from the site was beneath the surface, sort of buried-- that would be of interest with this idea, too. Usually, I don't look for collusion, it's too hard to find because it's too difficult for obscene, perverted, violently dangerous perps to trust each other to keep their mouths shut. But I do wonder if that's not involved here. And they may not all have kept their mouths shut. We don't know who's cooperating with the authorities. JMO, it's interesting that the Marathon gas station noted in association with KK is six minutes from the cemetery. And from what I saw on sources, LE searched the Wabash River with metal detectors. I also wouldn't usually look for Odinism aspects in a crime, either, but with the rune (and it does look like a rune, MOO), the date of the killings, the staging-- I don't think that can be ignored. It had to have some source. Multiple perps could explain that, each bringing his own individual twisted pathology to the scene. Not sure what the common bond would be for the perps, but there is one. I doubt it's the Odinism, though.

What does the date have to do with paganism?
 
My money's on the Court (clerk level) messing up records.

Even so ... EX PARTE means communication to Court submitted under seal and protected from the opposing counsel. A clerk's error gives no cover to McL to go rogue against basic ethical standards and the Indiana Rules of Conduct for officers of the court.

IMO there's been signs of incompetence in this error-prone Court at the clerk level (as to records etc) - but at the same time - McL cannot argue that he missed his freshman law school class where the meaning of and obligations surrounding ex parte is learned by new baby lawyers-to-be that lawyers shall not take advantage of privilege comms errors made by the court or the opposition. (moo as to my quick version of the standard)

IMO there's no acceptable McL excuse that explain his ethical error here - not even his tacit admissions as he seeks to benefit from ex parte knowledge he should know he should NOT have. Just none. For example,

<modsnip>

I would hope Gull follows up with McL's big boo-boo and plays reasonable and fair with sanctions on both sides and MOVES THE HECK FORWARD TO SPEEDY TRIAL.

Let's go!

JMHO

sorry I lied about not posting more today.
What shall I wear for the red carpet tonight? my pjs or my comfy sweats?
If she removed NMcL now for this blunder I might never stop laughing. This trial has devolved into a massive comedy of errors. Let’s hope that if she does remove him she holds a hearing first (only half kidding).
 
Last edited by a moderator:
What does the date have to do with paganism?
There's Roman Lupercalia, source: "a festival of fertility and prosperity celebrated in Ancient Rome between the 13th and 15th of February." Roman festival associated with sacrifices.

Another source: "Each Lupercalia began with the sacrifice by the Luperci of goats and a dog, after which two of the Luperci were led to the altar, their foreheads were touched with a bloody knife, and the blood was wiped off with wool dipped in milk; the ritual required that the two young men laugh." (And so on.)

In Asatru, I see they have this for the Valentine's timeframe:

"The modern religion of Asatru, a form of heathenry that celebrates the old Norse gods, decided to fill the gap left by Valentine’s Day with Valisblot. Valisblot is named for Vali, Odin’s youngest son, who is born, grows to manhood in a day, and avenges the murder of his brother, Baldr." I guess it's a (source) "day of remembrance and vengeance. Just as spring begins to blossom forth from the ground, winter must die. And with it, the traditions that kept away the bleak and cold of the long, Scandinavian nights. While this is a blot, or a sacrificial feast, many celebrants of Asatru prefer to eat a simple, cold meal instead....Alternatively, you could offer up a prayer or deed to Freyja, the Norse goddess of love."

The "F" on the tree resembles the Freyja rune. Not in any way making a statement on neo-paganism here. Absolutely no source I viewed seems to be talking about any type of animal or human sacrifice in relationship to modern neo-paganism. But in terms of the ancient traditional paganism, yes, that was a thing with a "blot." MOO, this is a date that a fringe cult (or some individual with such a mindset) definitely might hone in on for significance.

Also seeing Germanic Entschtanning ends right around this time on Feb 13, I think it's an event in Germanic paganism

Extra links: Lupercalia: Meaning, Pagan Rituals, Valentine's Day | HISTORY
 
Last edited:
Right?
I wouldn’t want the other party to know I was hiring a confessions expert.
I certainly wouldn’t have waited almost 11 months from the time of confessions to start trying to get an expert opinion.
I certainly wouldn’t have waited until right before trial to ask for funds to hire one unless I could guarantee their testimony would be favorable to my client.
Maybe something in recent discovery that was provided by p triggered this move. Did he confess again?
I thought it was a mental health professional they were requesting. It’s a confessions expert? Then why did NM use this as a basis for demanding private medical records?
 
I thought it was a mental health professional they were requesting. It’s a confessions expert? Then why did NM use this as a basis for demanding private medical records?

It is both. Clinical psychologist and confession expert.

 
It is both. Clinical psychologist and confession expert.


Just saw your post - thanks! :)

edited to add - BUT can not access the article.... :(

Is there a name for the doctor? or any stuff I should put in my notes? TIA! :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
54
Guests online
2,138
Total visitors
2,192

Forum statistics

Threads
600,618
Messages
18,111,313
Members
230,992
Latest member
Clue Keeper
Back
Top