Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #178

[Emma Peel]

What is it that needs explaining? I thought there have been a couple of clear scenarios of how the three of them could get from the bridge to the end point. It doesn't seem that mysterious.

Sorry. I was referring to the .6 miles from the north end of the high bridge to the south end.
(not the down-the-hill and creek crossing)

The area where the crimes were committed must have been pretty muddy/soft dirt. If there were several Odinists at that location, wouldn't we expect to see lots of footprints and tracks?

IIRC we''ve learned that the crime scene was pretty well trampled by any number of searchers etc. before it was protected. Tire tracks as well. Don't know if they have that sort of analysis/forensics on the other crime scene areas, such as at the "down the hill" location or details of the water crossing. All things we may learn at trial...

jmho

 

[Emma Peel]

Well Libby did film him on the last leg of that .6 miles. I think it's far to assume after BB started down the trail from the bridge and saw Abby and Libby approaching, there was just one person on the bridge and that was RA. He put himself there at the first platform right where BB had just seen him...Oh and said he was wearing the exact same clothes as BG too.

Do we know BG image location particulars? If so, I missed that information.

Where exactly is BG on the .6 miles of bridge when Libby filmed him?
Where was Libby?

And how do we know?

 

[sunshineray]

I think DeeDee has a great point. (see just above)
We can't know all the thoughts firing in Rozzi's head (or anyone's, frankly) in that pressure cooker of a conference.

He either acts like a professional or not. It's fairly simple. Take a stand for yourself of capitulate and stick to your decision. Lying never helps the situation. MO

 

[sunshineray]

Do we know BG image location particulars? If so, I missed that information.

Where exactly is BG on the .6 miles of bridge when Libby filmed him?
Where was Libby?

And how do we know?

Gray Hughes did a a very good map mock up with distances and placements and didn't LE collaborate with that animation video thing that Kelsea let everyone know about? I'm not remembering the correct descriptive name for it.

 

[Emma Peel]

He either acts like a professional or not. It's fairly simple. Take a stand for yourself of capitulate and stick to your decision. Lying never helps the situation.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of "black and white" thinking. And lawyers certainly don't think that way.
With the exception of facts and law ... there's no such thing as either/or. Everything is on a scale, a negotiation, strategic, nimble.

There's not one way to handle work conflicts; interactions/resolutions exist on a scale. One does their best in the moment, calculates conditions and forming responses carefully in a conflict environment.

JMO

FYI, Contempt matter closing statement papers due tomorrow from Hennessy.

 

[Emma Peel]

Gray Hughes did a a very good map mock up with distances and placements and didn't LE collaborate with that animation video thing that Kelsea let everyone know about? I'm not remembering the correct descriptive name for it.

I agree Gray Hughes has been a great resource to help folks get the lay of the land and the movement of certain reported eyewitnesses and the girls.

My query is this:
What is the FBI's calculation of the location of BG on the bridge relative to Libby (presumably) holding that camera and filming? And, where is Libby at that moment on the bridge?

(I think the answer is: We have no idea. Also: That's critical trial expert stuff. Be patient.)

If LE did collaborate on an animation video, does that collaboration include calculating the bridge location of BG as captured in the moments of the down-the-hill video. Can someone link me up? Thanks!

JMO

 

[FromGermany1]

I understand.
The abduction location per LE, is .6 miles from where RA puts himself on the bridge and the witness corroborated.

There's .6 miles that requires explaining, and if others are at the "down the hill" location ... it's appropriate to reset assumptions, IMO.

If I remember well, police began to search for the girls at a point down the creek 0,5 miles westerly from the crime scene. As far as I know, it was never explained, why they started at this point. I may have missed it of course, like many other parts of the reports or the contents of our thread here, although I'm reading in an ongoing way all the time. Parts are escaping now and again; each time I wonder, why it is possible.
When our smart Libby took her photos: the bridge with environment to the left and to the right; girlfriend Abby on the bridge, she had most certainly in her mind, to show to helpful people after their trip to the MHB area the unusual observations, she and Abby made. The observations weren't the bridge or Abby, but the environment to the left (West) and to the right (East) and the BG behind Abby. Although Libby was so very smart to take the helpful photos/video, it seems, that nobody paid attention to the true scary things, she wanted to show. BG was one of these scary objects, but not the only one, I assume. To the left and to the right in her MHB-photo there has to be more than only sunny winter landscape, small and indistinct, but nevertheless it is probably there. We are told to avoid the theme - okay, we did so for 6 years. We will do so for the next years, if MSM/an investigative journalist doesn't take it up.

Poor Libby and Abby are sometimes sending THUNDER and LIGHTNING from above in their desperation, I believe, when they are following the debacle around RA. The debacle is distracting from all the other details, Libby wanted to show in case, the girls' observations were on point and they saw some scary get-together down the different hills.

MOO

 

[Emma Peel]

If I remember well, police began to search for the girls at a point down the creek 0,5 miles westerly from the crime scene. As far as I know, it was never explained, why they started at this point. I may have missed it of course, like many other parts of the reports or the contents of our thread here, although I'm reading in an ongoing way all the time. Parts are escaping now and again; each time I wonder, why it is possible.
When our smart Libby took her photos: the bridge with environment to the left and to the right; girlfriend Abby on the bridge, she had most certainly in her mind, to show to helpful people after their trip to the MHB area the unusual observations, she and Abby made. The observations weren't the bridge or Abby, but the environment to the left (West) and to the right (East) and the BG behind Abby. Although Libby was so very smart to take the helpful photos/video, it seems, that nobody paid attention to the true scary things, she wanted to show. BG was one of these scary objects, but not the only one, I assume. To the left and to the right in her MHB-photo there has to be more than only sunny winter landscape, small and indistinct, but nevertheless it is probably there. We are told to avoid the theme - okay, we did so for 6 years. We will do so for the next years, if MSM/an investigative journalist doesn't take it up.

Poor Libby and Abby are sometimes sending THUNDER and LIGHTNING from above in their desperation, I believe, when they are following the debacle around RA. The debacle is distracting from all the other details, Libby wanted to show in case, the girls' observations were on point and they saw some scary get-together down the different hills.

MOO

This sounds like you're theory is that Libby/Abby walked into the middle of a scary get-together on either side of the shallows below the crime scene and "down-the-hill". Not sure what you mean by "avoid the theme"?

 

[Oculus]

If I remember well, police began to search for the girls at a point down the creek 0,5 miles westerly from the crime scene. As far as I know, it was never explained, why they started at this point. I may have missed it of course, like many other parts of the reports or the contents of our thread here, although I'm reading in an ongoing way all the time. Parts are escaping now and again; each time I wonder, why it is possible.
When our smart Libby took her photos: the bridge with environment to the left and to the right; girlfriend Abby on the bridge, she had most certainly in her mind, to show to helpful people after their trip to the MHB area the unusual observations, she and Abby made. The observations weren't the bridge or Abby, but the environment to the left (West) and to the right (East) and the BG behind Abby. Although Libby was so very smart to take the helpful photos/video, it seems, that nobody paid attention to the true scary things, she wanted to show. BG was one of these scary objects, but not the only one, I assume. To the left and to the right in her MHB-photo there has to be more than only sunny winter landscape, small and indistinct, but nevertheless it is probably there. We are told to avoid the theme - okay, we did so for 6 years. We will do so for the next years, if MSM/an investigative journalist doesn't take it up.

Poor Libby and Abby are sometimes sending THUNDER and LIGHTNING from above in their desperation, I believe, when they are following the debacle around RA. The debacle is distracting from all the other details, Libby wanted to show in case, the girls' observations were on point and they saw some scary get-together down the different hills.

MOO

Not really sure what you mean by what 'probably is there' in the MHB photo?

I wouldn't find it strange at all if she just took a nice photo of the bridge in front of them. Nothing more than that.

 

[FromGermany1]

This sounds like you're theory is that Libby/Abby walked into the middle of a scary get-together on either side of the shallows below the crime scene and "down-the-hill". Not sure what you mean by "avoid the theme"?

"Avoid the theme" to discuss it. The view of a car or a van or a person (except BG or Abby) wasn't supported by MSM and therefore declared as hallucinations. 50+ people were there in the wider MHB area, but officially only BG on the bridge was no hallucination.

My theory is, it maybe, that Abby and Libby were lured to the location, were forced "dth" by RA (if old BG is RA) and afterwards some other people came into the play. The man with the young, beardless face (second phantom pic) probably was part of the "crew". How they all worked together, I'm not able to imagine.

 

[FromGermany1]

Not really sure what you mean by what 'probably is there' in the MHB photo?

I wouldn't find it strange at all if she just took a nice photo of the bridge in front of them. Nothing more than that.

Of course, it wouldn't have been strange, because originally Abby and Libby went there for photos on a nice winter day. In any case they said so to their mother and grandmother, because teens always have to have a reason, where and why they want to go and when they would be back at home (and they would also have to promise, not to climb the scary MHB - I think of Abby). Teens also sometimes have to promise, that they don't own a phone or that they have no Fb-account. We will never know exactly, why the pic of the empty bridge was taken or why the pic of Abby was taken, although she wasn't allowed to be on the bridge, and this pic would have been evidence, that she didn't follow her mum's order. I think, the girls noticed that fateful February day in 2017, that something wasn't right at all and not as expected, therefore the pics and the video. MOO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I appreciate humor, as most folks must know by now.

However ... 1) Is not what went down Monday

Yet 2) I WILL put money on.

(hey. Can we bet here?)

It’s not what went down Monday. It’s what goes down in almost every motion by the defense that accuses the prosecution of any wrongdoing. They never use absolutes, but sentences by them that say “The prosecution may have destroyed evidence that might exonerate RA” is inevitably interpreted as the prosecution destroyed exculpatory evidence.

 

[Oculus]

I think the 'gone wrong' scenario is the most plausible. It does not answer all questions by far, but could explain a few.

In this scenario, one or more perps may be involved.

1. He/they might have surveyed the area earlier during the day.

2. He/they decided on A&L as they started to cross the bridge.

3. After 'down the hill', the original plan could have been to take them (by car presumably) to another location. But at this point the girls made a run for it.

4. The girls started to cross the creek, Libby might have lost one of her shoes at this point. At any rate the perp/perps caught up with them around the creek.

5. At this point the perp/perps decided to kill them at the spot.

6. He/they decided, for some reason, to 'stage the scene' some some extent.

7. The perp/perps left the area.

 

[Emma Peel]

Why did it take 5 years to arrest him?

Pick one:
1. LE "lost" RA's eyewitness tip interview that he gave voluntarily to LE the day after the discovery of the crime scene.
2. LE busy chasing Logan for 2 years
3. LE busy chasing KK for 2 years
4. LE busy conducting 70 days of interviews and immediately erasing them on accident. (last report)

All I am finding against him is gun ballistics, I thought there was more.

Largely circumstantial evidence...
We know there are ballistics linked to RA's gun - related to a discharged bullet cartridge found at crime scene. (Not a bullet.)
We know RA confessed in prison, on a call to his wife/mother.
RA admits to being at park, although a different timeline than LE believes he was there.
RA admits to standing on first overlook on bridge.
RA admits to wearing jacket/pants similar to BG
Eyewitnesses reports of seeing RA on the trail
Clothing from RA's home - blue carhart jacket, jeans, shoes/boots consistent w/ BG

 

[Emma Peel]

I'm just now familiarizing myself with this case as I want to understand it better for trial this May 2024, unless they moved it.

I am looking over these....

Delphi unsealed documents - 284 pages​

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

---

Original Document (PDF) »
Contributed by Law&Crime (Law&Crime)


.....and find it interesting that RA confessed to his wife that he committed the murders. See attachment.

I am not familiar with anyone being involved other than RA.

See Franks Memorandum from the Defense for Defense Theory involving members of an odinist gang and staging at the crime screen that resembles runes (used w/ odinist rituals) and odinist expert research provided to LE re: the crime scene runes.

Who is EF and why is this person not charged? I need links to the information.

Thanks

EF - vinlander/odinist gang member (2017)
from the Franks Memorandum:

"On page 1 of the Odin report, Mary Jacobs told law enforcement that on February 14, 2017,
Elvis was rambling, hyper and borderline incoherent. He was talking about having a “brother”
(even though Elvis had no male siblings) and was now part of a “gang.” Elvis told Mary that he
had been on a bridge with two girls that were killed. Elvis told her that someone named Abigail
was a pain in the *advertiser censored* and a troublemaker."

DNA mouth swab taken on 27 Feb 2018 during videotaped interview received by D Sept 8, 2023. Pg 92

I'll offer this from memory; this information can be found in the Franks Memorandum and its Exhibits. I'm paraphrasing. EF is currently mid-50's, cognitively handicapped from birth; reported as having intellect of 8 years; is social, active, joined a gang, his older sisters, in their 60's, both reported their brother's discussions related to his involvement the events on Feb 13th. At LE interview, EF had attorney present. My understanding at some point EF retracted and provided an alibi that involved a friend vouching for him ... although EF's phone showed it was NOT where the alibi said EF was. EF's phone shows the phone was home the 13th. Elvis told a 2nd sister (who also tipped LE) that he was in trouble and going to have to leave town due to the events of the 13th. Elvis's SM shows references to runes related to crime scene. Also from Franks Memo: EF told Lt. Click that they might find his spit at the crime scene since he spat on "Abigail" after she was dead - because she was the difficult one. MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

RA=BG=Killer(s)

It doesn't matter what antics and side shows the Defense and their SM cohorts try and pull. it doesn't change the facts of the case:

RA looks identical to BG, in shape, size, body type and torso to leg proportions. Every picture I've seen of RA standing his jeans, prison jumpsuit, etc the bottoms all fall and roll in (break) the same spot as BG.
RA was on MHB at the time of the "down the hill" and one of girls saying gun and the sound of gun being chambered.
He is obviously carrying a gun in his jacket pocket.
He was seen by several witnesses during this time.
If RA had a solid alibi placing him anywhere else, you bet the Defense would have been shouting that from Day 1! They wouldn't have left poor innocent Rick in the mean horrible Odin guarded Westville being abused into confessing HE DID KILL LIBBY & ABBY over 5 times to his family and who knows who else?? I bet we'll here more confessions by RA now that the State has his medical records.
The Defense has fought the SW results tooth and nail, why? If their client is innocent and there is no evidence linking RA to the crime what are they SO worried about that they've requested 3 times a Franks Hearing that has been denied? Why? Because there is evidence in those SW's that ties RA to these crimes, I have no doubt.
The State has more evidence, but unlike the Defense they haven't tried the case in the Media.

This Defense has lied, misled, and conducted themselves in gross misconduct and behavior. Why? if their client is innocent why result to such low down and underhanded tactics? Because RA's guilty and they're playing a game now for future fortune and fame. Maybe they have visions of books, tv specials, movies, in their heads a la the Murdaugh Mystery.

It's unfortunate that the true victims and the families here have been horribly exploited by the Defense and all but forgotten by the public by the circus environment they've created. It's almost too much to comprehend, but I believe in LE and I believe justice will prevail for these young girls in the end. No doubt about it.

#Justice4Abby&Libby

MOO

'

 

[girlhasnoname]

For all the naysayers that think the State conspired and dreamed up some elaborate lie and intentionally erased recordings, the subject of the bad VCR recording system was brought up back in 2014 at one of the Caroll County Meetings:

Page 1, Caroll County Jail paragraph 2

http://www.carrollcountygovernment.org/uploads/9/1/2/1/9121287/council_1.16.2014.pdf

moo

 

[steeltowngirl]

Perhaps you're assuming RA forced the girls off the bridge and down the hill?

For this discussion, I'm not.

If one does not assume that RA forced the girls off the bridge and down the hill, then the presence of others already down the hill may indeed be exculpatory in this example.

Of course, we wouldn't know without further investigation.

JMHO

Let’s assume RA is not BG, for the moment. That is yet to be proven at trial.

Are we in agreement that BG ordered the girls off the bridge and down the hill?

 

[girlhasnoname]

There's the matter of the Hobson's choice, where Gull made it clear they were welcome to a hearing that would be immediate on camera with no time to prep, and no witnesses, although there were 6 State witnesses awaiting in the galley.

I'm sorry but I've forgotten what Rozzi's negligence was? JMHO

The Defense knew ahead of time that Oct 19th meeting in Chambers was going to address their misconduct, Judge Gull had told them that on a teleconference Oct 10th (she was leaning toward DQ) and they had enough time for Hennessy to draft his Motion to the Court for his friend Baldwin stating why R&B shouldn't be DQ'd.

They Defense said they were completely innocent, snookered (their word) by long time friend MW, and had no knowledge he had taken confidential information and photographs. Of course we have found out since that information is incorrect. Rozzi and Baldwin are the Defense "Team", each culpable in the eyes of the Court. Rightfully so I say. They saw the 6 State Witnesses and tucked tail and ran for cover, lying about withdrawing in the process.

I think Rozzi was trying to minimize his actions by taking the stand Monday in defense of the Contempt charges. Funny how AB didn't take the stand at all.

MOO

 

[marv hucker]

I understand.
The abduction location per LE, is .6 miles from where RA puts himself on the bridge and the witness corroborated.

There's .6 miles that requires explaining, and if others are at the "down the hill" location ... it's appropriate to reset assumptions, IMO.

The 0.6 miles only needs explaining if RA _isn’t_ BG & _isn’t_ the culprit.