Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #180

[katydid23]

I don't know if or how any of these things were said.

For all we know, someone in the jail could have asked why did you shoot them? To which he hypothetically answered, I did after I told them to undress.

I have a heck of a hard time believing that there isn't A LOT being left out... otherwise, why does the defense want the confessions thrown out?

I still believe that the correct man being accused.


JMO

Yes, good point. It seems like these confessions would help the DT, if all of the confessions say he shot them in the back. Why are they trying so hard to suppress the erroneous confessions?

 

[iamshadow21]

Yes, good point. It seems like these confessions would help the DT, if all of the confessions say he shot them in the back. Why are they trying so hard to suppress the erroneous confessions?

I think because on a fundamental level, most people really don't understand someone confessing to something they didn't do, or confessing to something they did do, but including details or creating a narrative that doesn't fit the evidence.

Not implying anything about the defendant's guilt, innocence, or guilty knowledge in this case, just talking in general terms.

There's just always a suspicion in people's minds when there's some kind of disclosure, even if the content is provably false - for example, the perp was in prison when the crime happened and could have had nothing to do with it.

So from a defensive position, starting from a point where their client has made some kind of admission is a harder one than if they said nothing at all. Even if the other facts of the case are identical. So I can understand why they want the confessions either not admissible or debunked by their 'confession expert'. It gives them an easier time of things defending him if the confessions are off the table or devalued in the eyes of the jury. It's probably one of the few things I actually understand about the defence strategy in this case to date.

I am not a lawyer, so MOO.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I believe the current discussion of SA is due to the defense document stating that RA made admissions to molesting the girls but the autopsy report doesn’t state SA. Point being he could have molested them without signs of SA on an autopsy.

Just the action of being forced to undress against their will is a form of SA. I agree, who knows what he was doing while mingling around the bodies. Gah, what a disgusting thought and I even hate to type the words out.

MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Yes, good point. It seems like these confessions would help the DT, if all of the confessions say he shot them in the back. Why are they trying so hard to suppress the erroneous confessions?

IMO
I don't see where filing a motion is "trying so hard" because they know the chance of JG suppressing isn't likely.

Being the very good attorneys that they are, they are getting what they want on record.
Multiple times.
Building the case for any future appeals.

 

[Salah11]

IMO
I don't see where filing a motion is "trying so hard" because they know the chance of JG suppressing isn't likely.

Being the very good attorneys that they are, they are getting what they want on record.
Multiple times.
Building the case for any future appeals.

If these are considered good attorneys I would hate to see bad ones.

Their claims are becoming more farcical by the day. I wonder what their 3rd play will be as we have had 2 so far so I am sure they have enough time to squeeze another one In before Jury selection.

moooooo

 

[girlhasnoname]

List of documents - 4/11/2024:



——

Organizing for clarity in order of above list:


Document 1:


—-

Document #2:
MEMORANDUM OF LAW IN SUPPORT OF DEFENDANT ALLEN'S MOTION TO SUPPRESS


(Here’s a quick UNFORMATTED copy and paste text version of MEMORANDUM OF LAW IN SUPPORT OF DEFENDANT ALLEN'S MOTION TO SUPPRESS:



—-

Document #3:

Wow, looks like I missed all of this yesterday.

I would say isn't it coincidental that RA's most bizarre and 'crazy' behavior occurred after the State gave the Defense (who in turn shared with RA) its major Discovery dump. Hmmmm. That's when he 'snapped' and started eating court docs and all the other crazy antics the Defense is suggesting. I believe they all agreed that RA had to act as crazy as possible to account for the confessions made to his wife, mother and whomever else.

There is NO EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY in jail for any inmate. None (except when speaking with attorneys). If RA was blabbing confessions to everyone coming and going, those are not protected conversations. How many defendants have been convicted in part by the testimony of cell mates or other prisoners? Countless.

Being yelled at all hours of the night by other inmates, the size of his cell, his suicide watch precautions are standard. That is what happens while incarcerated, I can only imagine it would have been worse for RA because of the charges against him, ie child killer etc. It would have been the same in a local jail IMO, but much harder to protect him.

RA had access to medical and psychiatric care while incarcerated at Westville. A high profile defendant is not going to be denied that access, if anything, I bet he received more access. It will be interesting to see what the Dr. and nurses who interacted with him observed.

It all comes down to this for me:
RA started acting 'crazy' once Discovery was dumped on him and once the Defense found out he made those confessions to his wife and mother on a recorded jail phone. He amped up his bizarre behavior for a couple of months and then miraculously went back to normal, ie eating, showering, sleeping, having rec time again etc.

That kind of behavior would be impossible to keep up 24/7 for a long period of time when you are not genuinely afflicted by serious mental issues. He was fine from Nov 22 - until April 23, then went off the rails for a couple of months, then back to normal a couple of months later. A seriously mentally disordered person cannot turn it off and on like that.

The Defense had to address the elephant in the room. It will be easily dismantled by experts IMO.

MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

If these are considered good attorneys I would hate to see bad ones.

Their claims are becoming more farcical by the day. I wonder what their 3rd play will be as we have had 2 so far so I am sure they have enough time to squeeze another one In before Jury selection.

moooooo

The judge has been around for a good number of years; she picked Rozzi and Baldwin for this high profile double murder case.

I've seen bad attorneys and I don't put B&R in that group. At this point, the P charges against them are just that; we'll have to see how it shakes out.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I'm aware, thanks. A "confession" that contains information absolutely contradictory to the crime is going to be a problem in any case.

A staged confession with blatant misinformation is not going to be a problem here IMO.

 

[TTF14]

A staged confession with blatant misinformation is not going to be a problem here IMO.

So you think the State will say he faked the confessions? Why would a defendant make a fake false confession instead of just keeping his mouth shut? I'm confused.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Hi @susiQ for context- just for a brief moment, I was setting aside RA’s alleged admissions, and answering a poster as to why we were discussing SA, at all. OP said RA isn’t charged with SA, which is true as of now. But the defense document brought up SA. We have been talking about what SA is legally, vs. what SA can be in reality, etc.

ETA: maybe RA thought he shot them. Maybe he had a psychotic break. Maybe he wasn’t there at all. I don’t know what to make of this case anymore.

Agreed STG there was some sexual component to that CS 100%.

Maybe RA realized how bad he screwed up on his confession to his Wife and Mother and then went around blabbing intentionally other false confessions to lessen the impact of those. Can't wait to see the timing of these.

"Hey look, he told the janitor this, he told the guard this, you can't take those confessions seriously folks" in my best D impersonation.

JMO

 

[TTF14]

If these are considered good attorneys I would hate to see bad ones.

Their claims are becoming more farcical by the day. I wonder what their 3rd play will be as we have had 2 so far so I am sure they have enough time to squeeze another one In before Jury selection.

moooooo

What makes you think the claims are farcical? I think some of what they complained about is typical prison treatment in solitary so I don't know why they included all that (but I'm not a lawyer). But the stuff about smearing and eating his own excrement will be backed up by prison records (unless Carroll County is in charge of those, then they will disappear of course).

If you think every thing the defense team says is a lie and they give no thought to backing up their claims, I have to wonder how much you know about defense attorneys.

These are excellent defense attorneys.

 

[TL4S]

This is all extremely worrisome to me. Many here who thought they needed "more" to favor RA's guilt indicated that if he had revealed information in his "confessions" that only the killer would know, that would go a long way, but if he didn't, it wouldn't be helpful. If the information revealed today is true (and I've no reason not to think so), the "confessions" go sadly in entirely the other direction.

When I say "worrisome," I mean that, given what we know from public filings, I don't see how the state will get a guilty verdict here. I hope that there is more to come, as it would be truly tragic if this trial doesn't bring closure.

And not that it's worth much, but if I were guessing (and NOT "beyond a reasonable doubt"), I think RA was BG but didn't act alone.

It's worrisome to me, as well. It is going to be interesting to see how the State responds here, because at this point, we still don't know anything about the phone "confessions" to RA's wife/mother. I'm honestly not ready to jump to the conclusion that the D omitted them because they are damning against their client, though. The "confessions" addressed in the memo are the ones that the D claims the State plans to use at trial. Could it be that the phone "confessions" are not of any value to the State? Could they really be incoherent mumbles like the D has described them to be in the past? Or are they the State's lynchpin? We simply don't know yet.

His admissions that he shot the girls in the back are troubling to me, too. If he's malingering and trying to misconstrue the facts, I think that speaks to the mindset of a person quite capable of murdering two girls by himself...and somebody I would have expected to have committed offenses prior to and after, although that's just my own speculation. But if he's innocent and was in a state of psychosis, then that statement could have come from the fact that he was arrested based on a PCA that includes bullet evidence, and he doesn't even know how the girls were actually killed. Or, if he's guilty, did he actually try to shoot them in the back at the CS? Is that how the unspent round got ejected? Did he not originally plan such an up close and personal method of murder and that's what got him to the point of leaving an odd CS and signatures? Again, too many unknowns for me, personally, to make any conclusions.

Of further concern to me is the fact that even if RA is guilty, convicted, and it is never overturned through appeals, I hope EVERYTHING is transparent in how RA ended up in a maximum security segregation unit, unable to meet privately with his attorneys, and otherwise handled like a convicted felon as a pre-trial detainee. I completely understand the need to keep him safe. I just don't want to see a situation where a new precedent is set, paving the way for this kind of handling of more and more pre-trial detainees, especially in regards to not being able to meet privately with their attorneys. To me, that's walking a dangerous line of violating defendants' rights and nobody should be okay with that, IMO.

 

[girlhasnoname]

So you think the State will say he faked the confessions? Why would a defendant make a fake false confession instead of just keeping his mouth shut? I'm confused.

Yes I do. Why? In order to lessen the seriousness of his original confession to wife and mom. If he's making confession to everyone, those don't seem so consequential do they?

JMO

 

[snooptroop88]

What makes you think the claims are farcical? I think some of what they complained about is typical prison treatment in solitary so I don't know why they included all that (but I'm not a lawyer). But the stuff about smearing and eating his own excrement will be backed up by prison records (unless Carroll County is in charge of those, then they will disappear of course).

If you think every thing the defense team says is a lie and they give no thought to backing up their claims, I have to wonder how much you know about defense attorneys.

These are excellent defense attorneys.

I respectfully disagree based on their handling of this case generally. What makes you think they are "excellent"?

 

[susiQ]

And not that it's worth much, but if I were guessing (and NOT "beyond a reasonable doubt"), I think RA was BG but didn't act alone.

RSABBM
With utmost respect, this is where I must disagree. If he was BG, would not all that he was subjected to since his arrest have broken him to the point of revealing who the accomplices were? I cannot take the leap and believe he was involved or that he was BG. He didn’t even know the COD. JMHO

 

[Salah11]

What makes you think the claims are farcical? I think some of what they complained about is typical prison treatment in solitary so I don't know why they included all that (but I'm not a lawyer). But the stuff about smearing and eating his own excrement will be backed up by prison records (unless Carroll County is in charge of those, then they will disappear of course).

If you think every thing the defense team says is a lie and they give no thought to backing up their claims, I have to wonder how much you know about defense attorneys.

These are excellent defense attorneys.

where is the confession from his wife and mum?

They are trying to paint a picture but it’s certainly not the whole picture here. They are choosing which bits to skip because clearly it doesn’t fit their agenda.

Moooooo

 

[TL4S]

What makes you think the claims are farcical? I think some of what they complained about is typical prison treatment in solitary so I don't know why they included all that (but I'm not a lawyer). But the stuff about smearing and eating his own excrement will be backed up by prison records (unless Carroll County is in charge of those, then they will disappear of course).

If you think every thing the defense team says is a lie and they give no thought to backing up their claims, I have to wonder how much you know about defense attorneys.

These are excellent defense attorneys.

BBM. I agree, a lot of the complaints are typical prison treatment in solitary...except RA isn't a convicted felon. What it comes down to for me is what really happened to land RA in Westville. Was he eating feces in Carroll County, too? How about White County? What was his mental health before being moved to Westville, and before March 2023? If it was extreme like that, wouldn't he have had a more thorough evaluation at the Reception Center when he stopped through? These are questions I don't think we can answer yet, based on what the public knows, and until we do, it's troubling, IMO.

 

[mrjitty]

It's kind of crazy how many times and to how many people he has made confessions.

The timeline and actual evidence will be quite critical here.

I agree if he had a psychosis, then any of the statements could be worthless. But also, for anyone who has experienced one up close, this is not a passing phase kind of thing - it's a terrifying psychiatric condition which you don't quickly get over and which typically requires specialist intervention and medication. Like you can easily be committed if you have a genuine psychosis.

Also FTR - i am 100% against this kind of incarceration for anyone. But to be honest, i see that as part of the wider failings of the criminal justice system. It shouldn't be possible to be imprisoned in this way without at least a preliminary hearing IMO.

 

[susiQ]

I am utterly disgusted in what has been done to this man at the hands of those in “authority.” To take a man that has struggled much of his life with mental illness and bring him to the point of what we read in the Motion to Suppress is pure evil. Of course, those that believe he did it, despite evidence to the contrary, feel “he deserves what he’s gotten.” I find this absolutely appalling. They will also continue to disparage his attorney’s ad nauseam, how they are “spinning” the truth, and that’s what defence attorneys do. I dare say, “especially when they believe their client is in fact innocent!”

Even IF he was guilty of the crime, in some way involved in a minor role, is this type of treatment acceptable in the US? To take a sick man and break completely break his mind through this type of treatment? God help us all.
All MOO

 

[mrjitty]

where is the confession from his wife and mum?

They are trying to paint a picture but it’s certainly not the whole picture here. They are choosing which bits to skip because clearly it doesn’t fit their agenda.

Moooooo

I too and baffled by this. Like are they not challenging those ones? Which makes no sense as they were 'obtained' in the same unconstitutional way according to the defence?