Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #185

[Megnut]

The second the Defense was aware of trial dates was the right time to speak up. IMO they purposefully waited until the Court docket filled up to object. They didn't even come prepared to argue why they'd need the extra time (also purposeful because IMO they propose calling witnesses that won't pass muster and want to try their luck with a new judge).

FWIW if somehow a judge did not effectively manage the court clock and the Prosecution used up all the scheduled time, why would they do that? It would send the trial straight to dismissal, a dismissal of charges or a mistrial. The State would have to START OVER. But that's not what happens. The judge watches the clock. He/she'll hold the State to its proffer, providing the Defense the time it needs before both sides rest. Which is why both sides are sure to let the judge know who they anticipate calling and how long they estimate it taking, something that judges evaluate throughout every trial I've followed.

Defense Counsel is acting like they've never been to trial before.

JMO

 

[grannygates]

That's because the defense didn't file it in a motion. They emailed it...supposedly...but to date haven't shown documentation. Maybe they'll have proof?

there was discussion about how the court communicates with council and a previous poster stated that at this courthouse, all parties are required to file a motion to advise the court of the time they need to present their case so I was sharing the wording in the order surrounding that.

 

[Spartygirl]

The second the Defense was aware of trial dates was the right time to speak up. IMO they purposefully waited until the Court docket filled up to object. They didn't even come prepared to argue why they'd need the extra time (also purposeful because IMO they propose calling witnesses that won't pass muster and want to try their luck with a new judge).

FWIW if somehow a judge did not effectively manage the court clock and the Prosecution used up all the scheduled time, why would they do that? It would send the trial straight to dismissal, a dismissal of charges or a mistrial. The State would have to START OVER. But that's not what happens. The judge watches the clock. He/she'll hold the State to its proffer, providing the Defense the time it needs before both sides rest. Which is why both sides are sure to let the judge know who they anticipate calling and how long they estimate it taking, something that judges evaluate throughout every trial I've followed.

Defense Counsel is acting like they've never been to trial before.

JMO

BBM
I've been meaning to ask this--

Is the Rozzi & Baldwin"s FIRST murder trial ???

The way they are stumbling and bumbling through makes me think it could be their First Murder trial.

 

[steeltowngirl]

BBM
I've been meaning to ask this--

Is the Rozzi & Baldwin"s FIRST murder trial ???

The way they are stumbling and bumbling through makes me think it could be their First Murder trial.

May be the first for Rozzi, but Baldwin has these. The lower article was from 2022. *Note that Small was later found guilty. Indiana Man Who Killed Neighbor Over Mailbox Dispute Is Sentenced to 60 Years in Prison
Hubbard plead guilty to involuntary manslaughter.

NV man pleads guilty to voluntary manslaughter

A North Vernon man who was arrested in March 2021 for murder by arson has plead guilty without going to trial.

www.madisoncourier.com

Baldwin comes into this case as the lead attorney, and he has recognizable Indianapolis clients:

• Baldwin is representing 16-year-old Caden Smith who was charged last year as an adult in a triple murder in Indianapolis. I-Team 8 brought this story as breaking news on Oct. 12, 2021, when the bodies of Michael James, Abdullah Mubarak, and Joseph Thomas were found along a walking path near the 4400 block of South Meridian Street. Smith was arrested in December. Baldwin, convinced the judge that some of the evidence was collected with an invalid search warrant. The judge released Smith from jail with a GPS monitor. The state is appealing the judge’s decision, and a status hearing on the case is set for early next year.
• Baldwin also is representing Randy Small, who is sitting in the Brown County jail charged with a murder. According to court records, Small is accused of shooting a neighbor over the placement of a mail box. The case is scheduled for jury trial in January.
• Michael Wayne Hubbard is charged with murder and arson resulting in serious bodily injury. The probable cause for his case was originally sealed by the court and released to the public a few days later. Hubbard is accused of throwing gasoline on an acquaintance and lighting him on fire. A hearing in that case is scheduled for Friday in Jennings County. Baldwin is lead defense attorney in this case.

What experience do court-appointed lawyers in Delphi murders case bring to the table?

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — After learning this week that the judge in the Delphi murders case appointed two public defenders for suspect Richard Allen, I-Team 8 started looking into the cases that Andrew Baldwin and Bradley Rozzi have handled. Richard Allen, 50, was arrested on Oct. 28 and the...

www.wishtv.com

 

[FrostedGlass]

Rozzi told the judge way back in June of 2023 that they would need 3 or more weeks for the trial. That's when she set the Jan trial dates. Then she kicked them off the case for some months.

Page 162

6.15.23 Richard Allen Safekeeping Hearing Part 2.pdf

drive.google.com

 

[steeltowngirl]

Rozzi told the judge way back in June of 2023 that they would need 3 or more weeks for the trial. That's when she set the Jan trial dates. Then she kicked them off the case for some months.

Page 162

6.15.23 Richard Allen Safekeeping Hearing Part 2.pdf

drive.google.com

View attachment 507926

Then they agreed to Jan 8-26. But later, May 8-31 was not enough.

 

[Willow Knight]

Rozzi told the judge way back in June of 2023 that they would need 3 or more weeks for the trial. That's when she set the Jan trial dates. Then she kicked them off the case for some months.

Page 162

6.15.23 Richard Allen Safekeeping Hearing Part 2.pdf

drive.google.com

View attachment 507926

That is page 73. If one reads the next page 74, it will state 3 weeks set for trial and the defense said that was fine. The Court asked what about Jan 8th through Jan 26th, and the defense said they were fine with it. That was three weeks.

I do not know how to copy like you did, maybe @sunshineray someone can copy for me?

page 74

6.15.23 Richard Allen Safekeeping Hearing Part 2.pdf

drive.google.com

 

[FrostedGlass]

Then they agreed to Jan 8-26. But later, May 8-31 was not enough.

View attachment 507930

MOO
My point was they did tell the judge how many weeks they would need.
She may not have remembered but it's right there in the record.

They never should have so easily accepted the dates she set.

A whole ton of stuff happened between June 2023 and Jan 2024.
There was a lot of unexpected time lost for the D.
Probably a lot of surprises in the volumes of discovery.

It matters not an iota to me whether they were/are ready or not; the judge agreed to change the trial date.
I don't believe she would have done that unless she found the request legitimate.
The additional time also seems to have benefitted Nick.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I just want to put in my two cents worth that I do not care about the stupid trial dates anymore. It is either moot, settled, or fixed. Take your pick.
It all has solidified my opinion of the defense team and I don’t need to explain that.
Anyway, like so much of what the defense does, this has zero to do with RA and his guilt or innocent. The defense continues to try to use peripheral things to allow this double child murderer to walk the streets again. They would celebrate that as a victory.

 

[Spartygirl]

Rozzi told the judge way back in June of 2023 that they would need 3 or more weeks for the trial. That's when she set the Jan trial dates. Then she kicked them off the case for some months.

Page 162

6.15.23 Richard Allen Safekeeping Hearing Part 2.pdf

drive.google.com

View attachment 507926

Hmmm-- I thought the D team, Rozzi & Baldwin removed themselves from the defending RA.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Hmmm-- I thought the D team, Rozzi & Baldwin removed themselves from the defending RA.

It was known as a Hobson's choice.

 

[steeltowngirl]

MOO
My point was they did tell the judge how many weeks they would need.
She may not have remembered but it's right there in the record.

They never should have so easily accepted the dates she set.

A whole ton of stuff happened between June 2023 and Jan 2024.
There was a lot of unexpected time lost for the D.
Probably a lot of surprises in the volumes of discovery.

It matters not an iota to me whether they were/are ready or not; the judge agreed to change the trial date.
I don't believe she would have done that unless she found the request legitimate.
The additional time also seems to have benefitted Nick.

The May dates were set in January. I agree with you that if Gull was ok with moving to October, I don’t see a real issue - other than RA sits in jail longer if their client is innocent. I don’t know how it benefits Nick. He already knows his evidence.

If we can get to October without more flareups, leaks, FM’s, or needless drama, I’m good with waiting.

JMO

 

[susiQ]

The way I understood it was:

That was his second interview with LE, the interview days after the murder of Abby and Libby he stated a different time. When it was fresh in his mind, Richard Allen put himself on the bridge in the window of time to commit the murders of two innocent girls.

Do you have a link for where he stated he was there from 1:30 to 3:30? I recall DD could not locate his recorded interview if in fact it was recorded at all? Were his scribbled notes made public?

 

[Willow Knight]

Do you have a link for where he stated he was there from 1:30 to 3:30? I recall DD could not locate his recorded interview if in fact it was recorded at all? Were his scribbled notes made public?

Sure

"Richard Allen would eventually tell police he was on the trail from 1:30 p.m. to 3:30 p.m. on this day.
He said he parked at the old Farm Bureau building — which was later confirmed to be the former Child Protective Services building — and saw three girls at the Freedom Bridge."

Richard Allen case | Full timeline and events so far

A status hearing held in Fort Wayne on Thursday will allow Judge Francis Gull to address both the defense and prosecution ahead of Richard Allen's jury trial.

www.wthr.com

"Investigators actually interviewed Allen in 2017. He told them he’d been on Monon High Bridge and the Freedom Bridge between 1:30 p.m. and 3:30 p.m. on the day of the murders. The timing matched the window in which the girls died."

https://www.wane.com/news/clerical-error-may-have-led-police-to-overlook-richard-allen-in-delphi-case-source-claims/

 

[EOA]

I think that is a misunderstanding of Point 6. as listed in the Warden's statement:

Point 6. That Westville Correction Facility offers religious services if there are at least 5 individuals that practice the religion in the complex and to date we have NOT had more than 5 individuals in the complex request to hold services related to Odinism.

It sounds like Westville will hold religious services for any religion if there are at least 5 participants that request it. For sure it plainly states that they have NOT had requests from 5 individuals for Odinism. It appears it's not as rampant as some might assume.

https://www.scribd.com/document/676695015/Westville-Correctional-Warden-Affidavit-1-pdf

JMO

but these services would be held if 5 inmates requested them (not considering guards) - right? It’s irrelevant IMO how many other inmates might be Odinist. The issue is how many guards are/may be Odinist, but the guards are free to attend any religious service they wish in the community and outside the prison walls, and certainly wouldn’t commingle with prisoners at an inside-prison Odin service. None of the 5 requesters would be guards,

 

[EOA]

The timeline of this case has something I cannot explain.

If the witness who arrived at a little after 1:46pm(BB) was on a fitness walk, the I think it can be sort of safe to assume she walked to the Monon High Bridge, saw Richard Allen on platform 1 maybe staring at him for less than 30 seconds, and turned around and walked back towards the Mears entrance. She might not have left right away since the Hoosier Harvest Store camera video does not show her vehicle leaving until around 2:14pm.

It takes about 5 minutes to walk to the Monon High Bridge from the Mears entrance according to some video I have seen. The witness says she saw who she thought was Abby and Libby about halfway as she was walking back toward her vehicle and the girls were walking towards the Monon High Bridge. If she leaves here vehicle and walks to the Monon High Bridge, she would get there to observe Richard Allen at about 1:52pm. This means on the way back she would have passed the girls at around 1:54-1:55pm and the girls would already have been halfway to the bridge.

If the snapchat photo of the entire length of the bridge was not taken until about 2:05pm, why did it take Abby and Libby nearly 10 minutes to walk the rest of the way when it should only have taken about 2 minutes and 30 seconds?

I know the snapchat photo might have only been posted at 2:05pm and taken earlier, but it appears to me from the next one at 2:07pm and the girl's location on the bridge at the time of that photo that when they take a photo, they post it relatively quick after that. It does not appear that Libby waits to post, but I do not know that for sure.

If Richard Allen gave details in his confession that no one else would know, then none of this will matter. But if not, the prosecution's entire case could rest on this eyewitness testimony when it comes to placing Richard Allen on the Monon High Bridge at the time the girls were abducted and murdered. Without knowing the confessions, I do not think this is a very solid case to prove.

I agree with much of what you mention here. Two other quirks with the timeline include:
1) BB was still in her car driving towards the Mears lot at 1:46 when passing the HH store camera. She likely parked 20-30 seconds later but it’s possible IMO that she could’ve then changed into walking shoes or stretched or took the fob off her keychain and hid her purse in the trunk, any or all which would’ve pushed her actual hike start to 1:48. A&L, per PCA, were dropped off at 1:49 based on KG’s car passing same camera shortly thereafter. Thus the 2 parties likely started their walks roughly 1 minute apart yet the older BB apparently walked the whole way out to MHB, paused long enough to get a decently descriptive look at a man on platform 1, then walked halfway back (probably 9 minutes total) before encountering the girls who had only covered the ground halfway outbound which BB took like 2-3 minutes to traverse.
They really would had to have ratcheted up their pace to be taking the Instagram photos near 2:05 from partially across MHB.
2) If BG/RA was walking hurriedly toward MHB at like 1:33 when encountering the girl group at Freedom Bridge, A&L hadn’t likely IMO even left the house yet. He would have to have driven away from his house by 1:20 to be the possible car passing the HH camera at 1:27. Even if he was somehow tracking their whereabouts, how at that time could he have known where exactly A&L would be at exactly what time in the future such that he was hurrying into place?

Also wanted to mention that, though I could be wrong, I’ve seen no mentions that BB was with a dog on the trails that Feb 13 - she was just walking to my knowledge. But if someone has a link to the contrary?? Seems like the guy on the platform would much more likely have heard their approach if it were a lady AND a dog…

 

[EOA]

Sighted the group of 4 on the bridge? Did you mean him on the bridge?

Oh the Freedom Bridge, gotcha thanks

No, not Freedom Bridge nor Monon High Bridge… BB, about 2 minutes prior passing the HH store camera at 1:46, says per the PCA that she drove under an overpass and saw a group of 4 girls walking above her across the overpass. Once again, if the times are to be believed, the group of 4 had to be moving much faster to get from their Freedom Bridge encounter with the man at 1:33 to the underpass by 1:44 especially considering the snails pace they were moving per the photo stamps getting from MHB to FB just moments earlier.

 

[sunshineray]

there was discussion about how the court communicates with council and a previous poster stated that at this courthouse, all parties are required to file a motion to advise the court of the time they need to present their case so I was sharing the wording in the order surrounding that.

The bottom line for me is that it was the defense's responsibility to inform the court of their needs. They said they did that in an Oct 2023 email. The court has now stated no such email was recieved by the court. The defense also have not mentioned needing 3 weeks in subsequent months, only just recently has it been brought to the attention of the court...after scheduling was done for pre-trial hearings and trial dates...not before, after. I think the question is not how the court communicates, it's the lack of communication from the defense TO the court. AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

No, not Freedom Bridge nor Monon High Bridge… BB, about 2 minutes prior passing the HH store camera at 1:46, says per the PCA that she drove under an overpass and saw a group of 4 girls walking above her across the overpass. Once again, if the times are to be believed, the group of 4 had to be moving much faster to get from their Freedom Bridge encounter with the man at 1:33 to the underpass by 1:44 especially considering the snails pace they were moving per the photo stamps getting from MHB to FB just moments earlier.

I thought the bridge spanning over the highway was called The Freedom Bridge? There's a bit of a parking area on the far side, you walk across over the highway to the trailhead?

 

[EOA]

We don't know the answers to some these questions in exact minutia. Libby, having the wherewithal to record RA=BG and their abduction DTH, we do know. She is such a hero and the fact THAT video will be a part of what helps to bury RA IMO is divine intervention to me.

RA places himself on the MHB during that time, added to the many other things I've stated ad nauseam since RA's arrest, helps me see the case as very solid.

JMO

Just a reminder - the only interview we’re aware of IMO that RA “places himself on the bridge” is the same October’22 interview that he states he was on the trails from noon to 1:30, so he really doesn’t place himself on the bridge during the time of the crime. IF he had said what you’re saying then yes the case would be more solid.

Of course he could be lying or mis-remembering..