Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #185

[AugustWest]

Rozzi - Only got through 700 and his specialty seems to be vehicle related, speeding, operating with no license, OWI. He does have more Battery cases, mostly misdemeanor but some Felony ones. The typical drug possession and theft cases.

I didn't see any manslaughter or murder charges yet, but can't keep going through them one by one.

Overall, R&B are your typical successful local lawyers handling the basic, normal cases not highly specialized against murderers.

JMO

Your idea of what a normal "murder lawyer" has as a caseload is way off the mark. No offense intended.

 

[mrjitty]

Criminal procedure doesn't change between differing types of cases.

ETA: Most attorneys will go their whole career not seeing a double murder case. I don't know why you would hold that against someone.

ETA2: I've already counted four murder trials for AB, and I'm still in the first 20 pages of his casework. Not planning on looking through another 1000 to see how many more.

Your idea of what a normal "murder lawyer" has as a caseload is way off the mark. No offense intended.

I've personally wondered, based on Mitch Westerman's profile of AB on Murdersheet podcast, if AB isn't a bit of a maverick, and maybe he just sailed too close to the wind in whatever his arrangements with MW were. Its not nothing that there is a finding of negligence against him there, and MW - as some kind of ad hoc consultant on the case - faces criminal charges.

So it could be a "there but for the grace of god' type situation (I don't want to rake over all that again) - but maybe AB just took on a bit too much risk in a high profile career case than he should of.

My wild speculation only.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Your idea of what a normal "murder lawyer" has as a caseload is way off the mark. No offense intended.

Thanks for that info. I was speaking about the general experience of R&B not being defending murder suspects, especially high profile double murders, but rather the majority of standard Defense cases.

MOO

 

[al66pine]

Thanks.

From your link out of 1,000 cases shown for Baldwin the majority of his were theft, driving while intoxicated, and drug related. Only 2 of those cases were one manslaughter and one murder. It doesn't surprise me that Baldwin hasn't handled a lot of murder cases, especially a double homicide high profile case at that.

sbm @girlhasnoname
Thanks for putting your shoulder to the wheel for all following the case & taking the time to break down Baldwin's stats.

What's the old saying --- numbers don't lie but they can mislead.
Yes, if not scrutinized.
imo jmo moo

________________________

My apologies for posting before reading subsequent/intervening posts.
TYVM to @AugustWest for closer reading of Baldwin's list.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Thanks.

sbm @girlhasnoname
Thanks for putting your shoulder to the wheel for all following the case & taking the time to break down Baldwin's stats.

What's the old saying --- numbers don't lie but they can mislead.
Yes, if not scrutinized.
imo jmo moo

________________________

My apologies for posting before reading subsequent/intervening posts.
TYVM to @AugustWest for closer reading of Baldwin's list.

I think both of us are correct, I may have sorted the files differently but the overall statement is basically the same.

Baldwin's bread and butter is practically anything but murder cases. Out of the 1,000 I saw 2 and AW saw 4 so using 5 out of 1000, it's 0.5% over the years of his practice estimated because we don't know how some of those were categorized and some were pending.

EBM: @al66pine you always genuinely make me smile.
MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Baldwin's murder and attempted murder cases; pages 1-6. Those page # will change as cases are added, etc.
A look through all of his cases will show he's quite experienced on all levels.

Search by atty name

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

State of Indiana v. Alison K Davis (pg 1)
Case Number 02D05-2312-MR-000035
Court Allen Superior Court 5
Type MR - Murder
Filed 12/20/2023
Status 12/20/2023 , Pending (active)

State of Indiana v. Nicholas Robert Saunders (3)
Case Number 41D02-2208-F1-000027
Court Johnson Superior Court 2
Type F1 - Felony 1 = Attempted Murder
Filed 08/12/2022
Status 03/27/2024 , Decided

State of Indiana v. Caden Smith (Pg 4)
Case Number 49D20-2112-MR-036708
Court Marion Superior Court 20
Type MR - Murder
Filed 12/03/2021
Status 12/03/2021 , Pending (active)

State of Indiana v. James Beau Burkhart (pg5)
Case Number 89D01-2012-MR-000003
Court Wayne Superior Court 1
Type MR - Murder
Filed 12/21/2020
Status 05/10/2024 , Decided

State of Indiana v. Marcus Anthony Salatin (pg 6)
Case Number 41D02-2011-MR-000003
Court Johnson Superior Court 2
Type MR - Murder
Filed 11/05/2020
Status 05/14/2021 , Decided

 

[steeltowngirl]

Would you expect to be allowed to wear a cross at work?

Yes. I do.

 

[steeltowngirl]

We don't know because he didn't elaborate as far as I know.

He had access to the crime scene pictures; maybe there was something about those he thought was scary.

Thoughts of LWOP for what he’d done would be very scary.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Baldwin's murder and attempted murder cases; pages 1-6. Those page # will change as cases are added, etc.
A look through all of his cases will show he's quite experienced on all levels.

Search by atty name

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

State of Indiana v. Alison K Davis (pg 1)
Case Number 02D05-2312-MR-000035
Court Allen Superior Court 5
Type MR - Murder
Filed 12/20/2023
Status 12/20/2023 , Pending (active)

State of Indiana v. Nicholas Robert Saunders (3)
Case Number 41D02-2208-F1-000027
Court Johnson Superior Court 2
Type F1 - Felony 1 = Attempted Murder
Filed 08/12/2022
Status 03/27/2024 , Decided

State of Indiana v. Caden Smith (Pg 4)
Case Number 49D20-2112-MR-036708
Court Marion Superior Court 20
Type MR - Murder
Filed 12/03/2021
Status 12/03/2021 , Pending (active)

State of Indiana v. James Beau Burkhart (pg5)
Case Number 89D01-2012-MR-000003
Court Wayne Superior Court 1
Type MR - Murder
Filed 12/21/2020
Status 05/10/2024 , Decided

State of Indiana v. Marcus Anthony Salatin (pg 6)
Case Number 41D02-2011-MR-000003
Court Johnson Superior Court 2
Type MR - Murder
Filed 11/05/2020
Status 05/14/2021 , Decided

Adding the case of Randy Small.

Indiana Man Who Killed Neighbor Over Mailbox Dispute Is Sentenced to 60 Years in Prison

Randy Small, 58, was found guilty in July in the 2021 murder of his 70-year-old neighbor over a patch of land that both men claimed was their own

people.com

 

[AugustWest]

Thanks for that info. I was speaking about the general experience of R&B not being defending murder suspects, especially high profile double murders, but rather the majority of standard Defense cases.

MOO

This is true of every trial lawyer, which is why I stated you were way off the mark. For example, let's take an Okie attorney who is a highly regarded trial attorney; say, Steven Jones. Defended mass murderer Timothy McVeigh. who killed 168 people. What is his caseload like? You guessed it, mostly divorces, probates, DUI's, and so on.

See: https://www.oscn.net/dockets/Result...ateH=&iLC=&iLCType=&iYear=&iNumber=&citation=

 

[StarryStarryNight]

My feeling is none of this matters now.

One Judge or other will preside over this case. These tactics end one way or the other. There is no reason to think the outcome of the trial will be changed by removing Judge Gull.

IMO.

Exactly!
Everything that the defense is arguing so hard about has nothing to do with RA’s guilt or innocence. Why can’t we go to trial?!
I’ll add that though the Judge may not like the defense attys much that doesn’t equate to bias. We all occasionally have to work with people we don’t care for or have little respect for but we just push through and do our jobs.
I’ll add one more thing, JG has never shown anything close to bias or even dislike for RA. If anything, she has tried to protect him from a clueless and devious defense team.

 

[AugustWest]

Thoughts of LWOP for what he’d done would be very scary.

Frosted was speaking about Lebrato, not RA.

 

[EOA]

I thought the bridge spanning over the highway was called The Freedom Bridge? There's a bit of a parking area on the far side, you walk across over the highway to the trailhead?

The Freedom Bridge crosses the “new” State Road 25, also called the Hoosier Heartland Trail (new in 2015). The underpass which BB saw the 4 girls goes under “old” SR 25. The GH animated video which apparently is no longer accessible to non-subscribers showed these 2 places as approx 3/8 of a mile apart.

 

[mrjitty]

Exactly!
Everything that the defense is arguing so hard about has nothing to do with RA’s guilt or innocence. Why can’t we go to trial?!
I’ll add that though the Judge may not like the defense attys much that doesn’t equate to bias. We all occasionally have to work with people we don’t care for or have little respect for but we just push through and do our jobs.
I’ll add one more thing, JG has never shown anything close to bias or even dislike for RA. If anything, she has tried to protect him from a clueless and devious defense team.

Trial starts in 4 months and change.

As we know, that is much less time than you think, when you look at the pre-trial hearings that are now overdue. I assume Judge Gull will get those back on the schedule ASAP, but if the defence file to SCOIN that is going to be another delay until we find out if SCOIN take it up, and then potentially another big delay if they do take it up, and then perhaps yet again if Judge Gull is removed.

So even if Judge Gull wasn't ultimately removed, we could lose half the remaining time just on these tactics IMO

MOO etc

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Google Image Result for https://dlz.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/City-of-Delphi-Freedom-Bridge-3.jpg

You are correct.

In the PCA, the witness says she saw the 4 girls on the overpass over Old State Road 25 as she drove under it. That is different from Freedom Bridge over Hoosier Heartland Hwy 25.

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

Pg. 3
“Redacted advised she saw 4 juvenile girls walking on the bridge over Old State Road 25 as she was driving underneath on her way to park”

Red—Old State Rd 25 and overpass
Green—Hoosier Heartland Hwy 25 and Freedom Bridge

 

[Willow Knight]

Reassuring to know the state/county is providing Richard Allen funds for a fair trial.


Nearly $185,840 has gone to the Carroll County Prosecutor's Office, which had to hire staff to help with the case.

As of April, nearly twice as much ― about $360,780 ― has been spent on Allen's defense.

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[girlhasnoname]

The Delphi murder case could cost Carroll County $2.1 million. Here's why.​

Funny how the Defense has claimed they weren't getting paid...

<snipped & BBM>

Nearly $185,840 has gone to the Carroll County Prosecutor's Office, which had to hire staff to help with the case.

As of April, nearly twice as much ― about $360,780 ― has been spent on Allen's defense.

But the bulk of the county's expenses will go to house, feed, transport and entertain the panel of jurors who will be selected from Allen County. The juros will be transported to Carroll County for the trail and sequester for roughly a month as the trial unfolds in court.

MSN

jmo

 

[sunshineray]

From my perspective it's game time now.

Either they file to SCOIN to recuse the judge, or they get ready for trial.

I am happy with either outcome to put an end to this back and forth. Personally, even if Gull made an error as to whether she could change the trial date, i don't see how that is grounds to remove her. Maybe they think they can get over the top with the shopping list they allege.

I am not attached to whether the Judge stays or not. IMO the rules about confessions and third party involvement are the same, no matter who the judge is.

MOO

I hope she stays.

 

[steeltowngirl]

This is true of every trial lawyer, which is why I stated you were way off the mark. For example, let's take an Okie attorney who is a highly regarded trial attorney; say, Steven Jones. Defended mass murderer Timothy McVeigh. who killed 168 people. What is his caseload like? You guessed it, mostly divorces, probates, DUI's, and so on.

See: https://www.oscn.net/dockets/Result...ateH=&iLC=&iLCType=&iYear=&iNumber=&citation=

Wasn’t McVeigh executed? Not a great example for a defense lawyer resume…

 

[Willow Knight]

The bottom line for me is that it was the defense's responsibility to inform the court of their needs. They said they did that in an Oct 2023 email. The court has now stated no such email was recieved by the court. The defense also have not mentioned needing 3 weeks in subsequent months, only just recently has it been brought to the attention of the court...after scheduling was done for pre-trial hearings and trial dates...not before, after. I think the question is not how the court communicates, it's the lack of communication from the defense TO the court. AJMO

Defense could have sent it to the wrong email. Maybe Youtubers could check their inbox?