Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #185

[steeltowngirl]

I understand and agree because if there is DNA or forensic evidence against Richard Allen, my opinion about this case would change. But why would DNA or forensic evidence against Richard Allen have to be kept secret before trial? The defense is going to be given this discovery even if we are not.

Then there is Richard Allen who says when the right person is found he will be waiting for his apology. Then later he confesses to anyone who will listen.

When the arrest was first made, I thought LE had the right man, even if it did not turn out to be a truck driver like I thought. Then I read the PCA and now I am not so sure, especially if LE is still looking for others who may be involved.

All of the prosecution’s evidence remains closely held prior to the trial. We don’t know what they have, and they have respectfully remained faithful to the gag order.

LE believes they have the right man. They have also stated others may be involved. Both can be correct. If RA=BG, and that can be proven in court, with a reasonable jury, he should be found guilty of murder. The investigation continues into finding any others involved.

I look forward to learning all of it in October. I have my theory that there will be digital evidence of RA’s involvement with catfishing, but I could be way off base. Whatever LE has, they seem quite certain they have their man.

jmo

 

[TTF14]

That woman passed Abby and Libby.

But, RA says he didn't see A&L.

How could that possibly be?

The woman said she passed two girls she believed were Abby and Libby. (So, two girls who looked like Abby and Libby.)

So maybe RA didn't see them because it wasn't Abby and Libby?

Or he did see them and he was lying.

IMO MOO

 

[TTF14]

All of the prosecution’s evidence remains closely held prior to the trial. We don’t know what they have, and they have respectfully remained faithful to the gag order.

LE believes they have the right man. They have also stated others may be involved. Both can be correct. If RA=BG, and that can be proven in court, with a reasonable jury, he should be found guilty of murder. The investigation continues into finding any others involved.

I look forward to learning all of it in October. I have my theory that there will be digital evidence of RA’s involvement with catfishing, but I could be way off base. Whatever LE has, they seem quite certain they have their man.

jmo

I've been mildly surprised he hasn't been charged with any CSAM....if he's connected to "the dropbox," it would tie some things we've been wondering about (like KK) together. But, maybe they're just waiting on that because they don't want to show their hand and tip off others in "the dropbox" who will be next?

IMO MOO

 

[Ravenmoon]

I think the sticks being arranged on the bodies is probably what they meant, although I suppose it's possible a bullet could be one too?

IMO MOO

In the interview with Ives
I believe it was said that there were at least 3 signatures.


JMO

 

[Ravenmoon]

The woman said she passed two girls she believed were Abby and Libby. (So, two girls who looked like Abby and Libby.)

So maybe RA didn't see them because it wasn't Abby and Libby?

Or he did see them and he was lying.

IMO MOO

Given the timing, given the fact that the 3 girls looked like A&L, it's safe to say that it was them.

Police believe they have identified everyone that was there that day within a certain time frame.

Logically, there were not Abby and Libby clones running about that day at that time.

 

[TTF14]

In the interview with Ives
I believe it was said that there were at least 3 signatures.


JMO

Body positioning, sticks on bodies, mark on tree?

IMO MOO

 

[Salah11]

The woman said she passed two girls she believed were Abby and Libby. (So, two girls who looked like Abby and Libby.)

So maybe RA didn't see them because it wasn't Abby and Libby?

Or he did see them and he was lying.

IMO MOO

So then those girls would have then been traced if it hadn’t been them.

I honestly can’t keep up today with what is meant to be real and what’s fake.

We now have two girls who look like Libby and Abby but ain’t them.

We have fake bridge photos apparently and the list goes on.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Body positioning, sticks on bodies, mark on tree?

IMO MOO

Maybe?
4 more months and it will come to light.

JMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

Logically, there were not Abby and Libby clones running about that day at that time.

And there were not BG clones either.

I have yet to hear defense state that Richard Allen is not the man on the bridge.

They are now trying to manipulate the timeline, because they can’t provide an alibi for RA. They cannot, because he was on the bridge and photographed by Libby.

RA=BG

jmo

 

[TTF14]

So then those girls would have then been traced if it hadn’t been them.

I honestly can’t keep up today with what is meant to be real and what’s fake.

We now have two girls who look like Libby and Abby but ain’t them.

We have fake bridge photos apparently and the list goes on.

Kelsi told journalist James Renner in a face-to-face interview on 9-10-18 that she saw 10-20 kids her age there when she dropped the girls off, so I suppose it's possible two of those 10-20 teens could have resembled Abby and Libby.

I'd link to the interview, but I am not sure it's an approved source. It can be found on YouTube by searching James Renner Kelsi German. (timestamp: 14:45 - 15:30)

JMO MOO

 

[TTF14]

And there were not BG clones either.

I have yet to hear defense state that Richard Allen is not the man on the bridge.

They are now trying to manipulate the timeline, because they can’t provide an alibi for RA. They cannot, because he was on the bridge and photographed by Libby.

RA=BG

jmo

What do you mean they are trying to manipulate the timeline? I haven't seen them do that (or I have forgotten).

 

[steeltowngirl]

What do you mean they are trying to manipulate the timeline? I haven't seen them do that (or I have forgotten).

You may have missed that one, and I will circle back with the links here tomorrow. Right now I am almost on my way to see Robert Plant and Allison Krauss!

 

[TTF14]

You may have missed that one, and I will circle back with the links here tomorrow. Right now I am almost on my way to see Robert Plant and Allison Krauss!

Sweet! Love me some AK. Enjoy!!

 

[sunshineray]

I am in the "RA" is guilty camp.
I am also in the "other people could be involved" camp.

After so many years, several potential POIs have come and gone. I really, really thought a specific person... actually 2 people, were going to be charged. I was blown away when the arrests never came.

Then, the murmers of an arrest being imminent started emerging in August 2022. Many of us were hopeful, but skeptical.

Since his arrest, we have come to know a small portion of the evidence that tie RA to the crime.

Yes, it's small, but it's powerful.

In his statement to DD, he puts himself at the scene during the time of the crime.

He talked about seeing the group of girls that also saw him while he was arriving and they were departing.

He says he walked out to platform one. The same platform that a woman out for a walk witnessed man wearing bgs clothes.

That woman passed Abby and Libby.

But, RA says he didn't see A&L.

How could that possibly be?

His wife was away with family. She can't provide an alibi for him. He doesn't have one.

A bullet matching his Sig Sauer is found between the girls.

What if the bullet could match 10 other guns,?

Well, what possibility is there that the gun is within Carroll County or even the state of Indiana, or for that matter within the Midwest,? I would bet zero chances.

But let's do a silly thing and lets pretend that 2 other guns/bullets in the state of Indiana are matches.

The 2 other people would also need to have been at the trail that day, at that time, wearing those clothes and carrying their guns. They also would have to be physically able to cross the bridge and most certainly would have no alibi.


Even with this small bit of evidence, it's damning.

There is a gag order. So, we know what we know and will find out in October all of the things that we don't know now.

All of this is my opinion.
Only my opinion.

And the things in the PCA all stuff of course before the search was done and that evidence processed. There could be sooo much more. It may be why RA ate pages of discovery instead of pages from a magazine or book he had?

 

[Ravenmoon]

And the things in the PCA all stuff of course before the search was done and that evidence processed. There could be sooo much more. It may be why RA ate pages of discovery instead of pages from a magazine or book he had?

Oh, I absolutely believe that there are many things that have not been made public.

The gag order was put in place to protect the case against RA.

If there was anything in it that helped the defense it would have magically made it's way to the public.

More recently, wasn't more evidence introduced that was the alleged reason that the defense needed more time? ( Yes, I know that the timeline the judge put forth was inadequate)

I just remember NMcL using the verbiage " more damning evidence.'

It's going to be a painful, eye opening, exhausting trial.

I sincerely hope that it leaves us all with the answers that we have been seeking.


JMO

 

[Salah11]

Kelsi told journalist James Renner in a face-to-face interview on 9-10-18 that she saw 10-20 kids her age there when she dropped the girls off, so I suppose it's possible two of those 10-20 teens could have resembled Abby and Libby.

I'd link to the interview, but I am not sure it's an approved source. It can be found on YouTube by searching James Renner Kelsi German. (timestamp: 14:45 - 15:30)

JMO MOO

Abby and Libby were Id’ed by the witness who saw them I was lead to believe.

 

[TTF14]

Abby and Libby were Id’ed by the witness who saw them I was lead to believe.

I'm just saying (since another posted said something about RA saying he didn't see Abby and Libby) that with 10-20 other teenagers there (that Kelsi said she saw with her own eyes), it is possible the witness, who I assume did not know Abby and Libby, could have seen two other girls. I'm sure they weren't the only blonde and auburn-haired girls in the county, and as has been repeated here over and over, eyewitness accounts are often faulty. The witness said she "believed" it was Abby and Libby she saw (at least that's what LE put in the PCA...)

IMO MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

I want to do a little independent research....

Can anyone point me to another case where the judge had to go before the Supreme Court, pre-trial, because of their erroneous decision to throw the defense attorneys off the case? (And had their decision overturned by the SC)

Thanks in advance, if you can help.

I'm curious to learn if you found anything.

I think it's very unusual, based on Justice Slaughter's dissenting opinion in the reversal of JG's action.
He talks about discretionary interlocutory appeal route and appeal after final judgement.
Links to the written opinion and oral argument are below.

However, beginning on page 8, the opinion goes into detail why that route would be problematic; they call it a "procedural knot" that they simply don't expect Richard Allen to untie.

As a side note, I found this part interesting where they were discussing RA's incarceration:

"But even assuming every aspect of Allen’s pretrial confinement is proper (and again, we are in no position to say one way or another at this point), extending it for at least nine months still presents extraordinary challenges for which there is no adequate appellate remedy."

https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/Opinion-Issued-Reversed-and-Rem.pdf

Indiana Appellate Clerk's Portal

 

[TTF14]

I'm curious to learn if you found anything.

I think it's very unusual, based on Justice Slaughter's dissenting opinion in the reversal of JG's action.
He talks about discretionary interlocutory appeal route and appeal after final judgement.
Links to the written opinion and oral argument are below.

However, beginning on page 8, the opinion goes into detail why that route would be problematic; they call it a "procedural knot" that they simply don't expect Richard Allen to untie.

As a side note, I found this part interesting where they were discussing RA's incarceration:

"But even assuming every aspect of Allen’s pretrial confinement is proper (and again, we are in no position to say one way or another at this point), extending it for at least nine months still presents extraordinary challenges for which there is no adequate appellate remedy."

https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/Opinion-Issued-Reversed-and-Rem.pdf

Indiana Appellate Clerk's Portal

I haven't found anything. It's possible that if it's happened before the judge recused themselves and didn't end up presiding over the trial (which would make sense).

On another note, anyone know if Rex Heuermann is being held in a state prison or is he allowed to be in jail? Or that giant guy with the face tattoos who was just convicted for killing two women "just because?" (He seems sooo dangerous.) And of course Brian Kohberger.

 

[Salah11]

I'm just saying (since another posted said something about RA saying he didn't see Abby and Libby) that with 10-20 other teenagers there (that Kelsi said she saw with her own eyes), it is possible the witness, who I assume did not know Abby and Libby, could have seen two other girls. I'm sure they weren't the only blonde and auburn-haired girls in the county, and as has been repeated here over and over, eyewitness accounts are often faulty. The witness said she "believed" it was Abby and Libby she saw (at least that's what LE put in the PCA...)

IMO MOO

So because RA claims he didn’t see them he must be telling the truth?

Considering what he is charged with and confessed to multiple times his word doesn’t mean much.