Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #186

[Jade]

IMO
Not drafted "by a really, really mad 8 year old." but drafted with the general public in mind; who, according to Google are said to read at a 7th or 8th grade level.

Edited to add a link so folks won't have to Google.

What is readability and why should content editors care about it?

centerforplainlanguage.org

What does the public’s reading level have to do with the Defense's response to the Courts?


The Defense’s showboating for the public finally acknowledged?


All imo

 

[Emma Peel]

I don't believe that will ever happen for many reasons. JMO

IMO, it will happen b/4 the next safekeeping hearing.
JG had the Safekeeping hearing scheduled for the May 3-day hearing marathon (that was cancelled/postponed).
Conundrum: Who will hear the safekeeping hearing where JG is a witness to what the D claims is the State's bad faith move? A special special judge? If in Indiana there is such a thing, rather than a requirement of recusal. JMHO

 

[Emma Peel]

Logically (and ethically), the State would expect the trial Judge (who becomes a witness for the Defense against the State) to recuse.

On their own.
Based upon their ethical obligation upon having a direct conflict with the ability to rule in a matter where one is a fact witness.

JMHO

 

[FrostedGlass]

What does the public’s reading level have to do with the Defense's response to the Courts?


The Defense’s showboating for the public finally acknowledged?


All imo

I'm not acknowledging any showboating by the defense.
What I wrote was my opinion as to why they write in a style.

Motions that are available to the public are probably read by the public.
We do it here all the time. Others do the same.
Shrug...

I don't see what the big deal is over the way they word their filings. It doesn't interfere with how the judge or the appeal courts read it; if it makes it more understandable for the public, there's no problem. IMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

IMO, it will happen b/4 the next safekeeping hearing.
JG had the Safekeeping hearing scheduled for the 3-day hearing marathon.
Conundrum: Who will hear the safekeeping hearing where JG is a witness to what the D claims is the State's bad faith move? A special special judge? If in Indiana there is such a thing, rather than a requirement of recusal. JMHO

Yes that 3 day May 21, 22 and 23rd that Judge Gull blocked off for hearings and the Defense asked for a continuance?

Just because the D asserts the State made a bad faith move doesn't make it true, but they can appoint Special Judges.

Like the one who is overseeing the upcoming Mitch Westerman trial, bench or jury who knows? He's changed his mind before, but currently it's scheduled for a Bench Trial in Sept IIRC.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

My main concern with the Franks is that it relied heavily on propensity reasoning, which can lead to a form of logical fallacy



These kinds of inferences can be a powerful investigative tool i.e profiling. This crime scene has occult/pagan staging. Odinism is a type of paganism. These people are Odinists. Therefore maybe these people did it. It enables you to winnow down a target list of people where you can look for actual evidence.

However there is a risk of logical fallacy here. IMO much of what is in the Franks is propensity reasoning. IMO the Facebook posts about sticks and runes are not evidence of a crime, but evidence of disposition, that allegedly makes it more likely these people are the real killers. But that is quite some assumption - first perhaps Turcow will say he can't even conclude the crime scene does have odinist staging. Second, just because someone likes Odinism doesn't mean they want to do a murder. It's a huge leap.

It's interesting to contrast with KAK in that regard. If your theory is sexual motivation - then you have a suspect who is actually connected to the victim in the context of a catfishing crime. That to me is much stronger because you have a real evidential link between suspect and victim, not just disposition/propensity.

But KAK also illustrates the dangers of propensity reasoning. KAK did this other crime, therefore he must have done the murders. "It's too much of a coincidence". That road can lead to fallacy.

MOO

But with KAK you have the connection of actions that revolve around the crimes that the Odinist theory does not have. KAK's actions immediately before (same day), during and right after the murders that are totally missing from the Odinist theory, nothing comparable except maybe a man with the mind of a child saying he spit on one of the victims . I don't understand why the D choose the Odinist fantastical tale over the meat and potatoes of KAK's actions and associations to try and sow reasonable doubt. It makes little sense to me UNLESS RA is actually somehow connected to KAK and his world. AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

Pet names by the judge to the Prosecution denotes familiarity and lack’s impartiality and professionalism. It wasn’t her most appropriate remark & I would have the same issue if she said it to the the D. It is in RA’s best interest for them to keep pointing out concerns over bias. Enough of them may stack up and amount to a real legal issue for future proceedings such as trial or appeals.

Why they can’t let it go: wouldn’t be doing their job if they did. Just because some people think he should be begging for a deal doesn’t mean RA has to do so. They could have suggested this to him and if he declined they have no option but to continue to try to defend him and protect his legal rights.

Just because we think he should plead guilty to this or a lesser crime doesn’t mean it’s in his legal best interest to do so. That’s what the lawyers jobs are. To help make sure his decisions about the case align with his best interests - insofar as RA will allow them to.

It seems many have taken the judge saying, "ding dong" as putting a pet proper name to the prosecutor. When I read it it sounded more like, ding, dong Hello, is anybody home? I wasn't asking about how long it takes you to relieve yourself, I was asking about this, wake up will you!?

So no a form of endearment but showing slight aggravation, being mildly exasperated with him.
JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Logically (and ethically), the State would expect the trial Judge (who becomes a witness for the Defense against the State) to recuse.

On their own.
Based upon their ethical obligation upon having a direct conflict with the ability to rule in a matter where one is a fact witness.

JMHO

This issue with Baston does not rise to the level of an Original Action IMO. More games being played by the D.

JMO

 

[Emma Peel]

Yes that 3 day May 21, 22 and 23rd that Judge Gull blocked off for hearings and the Defense asked for a continuance?

Just because the D asserts the State made a bad faith move doesn't make it true, but they can appoint Special Judges.

Like the one who is overseeing the upcoming Mitch Westerman trial, bench or jury who knows? He's changed his mind before, but currently it's scheduled for a Bench Trial in Sept IIRC.

JMO

The Defense/RA have the right to get to the truth, to confirm that - as Judge Gull stated - the State made the decision to ignore a subpoena and to decline to transport and deliver the subpoenaed witness (Baston in the State's custody) to the May 23 safekeeping hearing, after which the State blamed their failure to deliver that witness upon the Gull Court. The State - in its report - asserted that Judge Gull ordered the State NOT to bring the witness to her Court. (And then ... that would imply that Judge Gull failed to immediately inform the Defense that she ordered the witness should not be transported to Court for testimony at the safekeeping hearing.)

Either that happened as the State reported, or the State wrote a false report and it did not happen. That's a simple finding of fact via witness testimony.

If the State's report was false, then the State's blocking of a witness who's testimony could have been favorable for RA's case for that May 2023 safekeeping hearing, with a different outcome (decision) from that hearing, violated RA's rights to due process.

I'll not even run down the other option - which is that Judge Gull gave the "okay to not deliver" RA's witness, as claimed by the State's report. A Judge would just NOT do that, not without immediately, formally and on the record informing the Defense and discussion of how to recover from a temporary bad circumstance and offering to postpone the safekeeping hearing until the witness was made available.

Given RA has since been held in prison - solitary- under that safekeeping order for more than a year since that May 2023 hearing where RA was denied his witness ... well ... violating the accused RA's rights pre-trial - that is a problem for the State. And various dominos (due to safekeeping conditions) line up from there.

On top of examining a past State "error/wrong" against RA ... the Defense may determine this (Baston) same witness remains a relevant witness for the upcoming (2nd) safekeeping hearing motion Judge Gull has already agreed to hear.

JMHO

 

[sunshineray]

This issue with Baston does not rise to the level of an Original Action IMO. More games being played by the D.

JMO

It's just one more ridiculous handful of under-cooked spaghetti thrown at the wall that doesn't stick. To quote Click again, "...the defense twisting facts for sensationalism". MO

 

[steeltowngirl]

Possibly BH watched that very HBO series seeing he mimicked it on his FB page too?? Or, he spent too much time hanging out with PW?? JMO

Maybe the defense team was inspired by True Detective when they wrote the FM.

jmo

 

[steeltowngirl]

What we don't know is why the Indiana Department of Corrections moved RA from Westville to Wabash.

Have you seen that explained?

In its notification to the court, the department cited state law that allows the prisons commissioner to transfer prisoners for "safekeeping," according to the notice, to a facility deemed suitable for their confinement.

"On December 6, 2023, Mr. Allen was transferred from Westville Correctional Facility to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility," the notice states. "The Indiana Department of Correction anticipates continuity of services and care provided to Mr. Allen at the Wabash Valley Correctional Facility."

Delphi suspect moved to southern Indiana prison for 'safekeeping'

The Department of Corrections moved Richard Allen, the suspect in the 2017 Delphi teen killings, to a different Indiana prison to await trial.

www.jconline.com

 

[steeltowngirl]

Is the word "hate" in the FM?

Yes, I see the word “hate” in the FM. Can you tell me more about the connection between the word in the FM to Abby and Libby?

 

[FrostedGlass]

In its notification to the court, the department cited state law that allows the prisons commissioner to transfer prisoners for "safekeeping," according to the notice, to a facility deemed suitable for their confinement.

"On December 6, 2023, Mr. Allen was transferred from Westville Correctional Facility to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility," the notice states. "The Indiana Department of Correction anticipates continuity of services and care provided to Mr. Allen at the Wabash Valley Correctional Facility."

Delphi suspect moved to southern Indiana prison for 'safekeeping'

The Department of Corrections moved Richard Allen, the suspect in the 2017 Delphi teen killings, to a different Indiana prison to await trial.

www.jconline.com

I thought that all things RA were going well in Westville, according to officials.

What changed?

 

[steeltowngirl]

I thought that all things RA were going well in Westville, according to officials.

What changed?

Defense asked for RA to be moved from Westville. They said Westville was to far away to access RA and that he was being treated like a POW there.

 

[sunshineray]

In its notification to the court, the department cited state law that allows the prisons commissioner to transfer prisoners for "safekeeping," according to the notice, to a facility deemed suitable for their confinement.

"On December 6, 2023, Mr. Allen was transferred from Westville Correctional Facility to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility," the notice states. "The Indiana Department of Correction anticipates continuity of services and care provided to Mr. Allen at the Wabash Valley Correctional Facility."

Delphi suspect moved to southern Indiana prison for 'safekeeping'

The Department of Corrections moved Richard Allen, the suspect in the 2017 Delphi teen killings, to a different Indiana prison to await trial.

www.jconline.com

Yes the actual Indiana Rule used states...

"If the court finds that the inmate is in danger of serious bodily injury or death or represents a substantial threat to the safety of others, it shall order the sheriff to transfer the inmate to another county jail or to a facility of the department of correction designated by the commissioner of the department as suitable for the confinement of that prisoner and provided that space is available."

2023 Indiana Code :: Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure :: Article 33. Preliminary Proceedings :: Chapter 11. Emergency Transfer of Certain Jail Inmates :: 35-33-11-1. Inmate in County Jail in Imminent Danger of Serious Bodily Injury or Death or Re

Justia Free Databases of US Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

Where the Indiana Rule was named in MM...

Richard Allen moved to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility

(WLFI) — Delphi homicide suspect has been move to another facility. According to released court documents, on Wednesday December 6, Allen was transferred from Westville Correctional Facility to Wabash Valley

www.wlfi.com

 

[StarryStarryNight]

IMO
Not drafted "by a really, really mad 8 year old." but drafted with the general public in mind; who, according to Google are said to read at a 7th or 8th grade level.

Edited to add a link so folks won't have to Google.

What is readability and why should content editors care about it?

centerforplainlanguage.org

So why would they draft anything with the general public in mind?
This case is supposed to be tried in a court of law and argued by professionals with keen minds, top notch reading and writing skills and the highest of ethical standards.
The arguments are supposed to be between legal professionals.

 

[Jade]

I'm not acknowledging any showboating by the defense.
What I wrote was my opinion as to why they write in a style.

Motions that are available to the public are probably read by the public.
We do it here all the time. Others do the same.
Shrug...

I don't see what the big deal is over the way they word their filings. It doesn't interfere with how the judge or the appeal courts read it; if it makes it more understandable for the public, there's no problem. IMO

Never have I seen other court directed documents prepared at a pre-high school level out of concern for the reading public.

Normally the documents are addressed to the court in defense of their clients in the most serious, intelligent, professional way as is their duty to their client and the court.

You’d think they could emote on a community college level at least. Just to show they have some education.

Richard Allen and his family will beg to disagree that the quality of the filings and the appearance of an obligation for the public to digest complicated filings over properly defending their client using intelligible exchanges is no big deal, no problem.

I’m pretty sure writing over the minimum level is a requirement for law school and why attorneys are so educated, tested and overseen and that is expected to be shown and practiced as proof of their vigorous defense of their client.



All imo

 

[photographer4]

It seems many have taken the judge saying, "ding dong" as putting a pet proper name to the prosecutor. When I read it it sounded more like, ding, dong Hello, is anybody home? I wasn't asking about how long it takes you to relieve yourself, I was asking about this, wake up will you!?

So no a form of endearment but showing slight aggravation, being mildly exasperated with him.
JMO

In either playful jest or irritated admonishment, neither is acceptable nor professional imo.

 

[photographer4]

This issue with Baston does not rise to the level of an Original Action IMO. More games being played by the D.

JMO

It doesn’t need to reach any particular level to be of concern. But I daresay, there does appear to be some disdain by the judge towards b & a.