Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #186

[TTF14]

Considering the charges against him who exactly will want to be friends with a person who sexually abuses children and murders them?!

My understanding is they are universally hated even in Prison as even with criminals there is pecking order and they don’t any lower than this.

Moooooooo

We don't know that they were SAd, but I get your point. However, in this case, I think it's way, way, way bigger than that.

JMO IMO

 

[sunshineray]

Well said. Rozzi was right when he told her she doesn't know anything about this case. She doesn't. How could she? She isn't holding hearings! We're seeing in the Karen Read case what happens when you don't hold pre-trial hearings.....lots of idle time for the jury. She may be right about how much time they'll need for trial, but not if no hearings are held before it!

A hard end date is ludicrous. Unless it's scheduled extra, extra long because of the sequestration, and they end "early." I get they have to do some things differently when the jury is sequestered.

IMO MOO

It's the defense that's been dodging evidentiary hearings, jury selection and trial. The Prosecution has not.

 

[TTF14]

It's the defense that's been dodging evidentiary hearings, jury selection and trial. The Prosecution has not.

I didn't say the prosecution has been dodging hearings. Just that the judge isn't holding them.

 

[marypretzels]

My husband, who died Nov2,2022, was 5’4 the day I married him. dressing a man that short was a life long project. Clothes off the rack are nearly impossible. All jeans and pants begin at a 28 inch inseam for a man and make it necessary for years of tailoring. The nurse who was doing his intake for hospice asked if I knew his height. I said of course 5’4, she spat back “he is not, no way”. I was shocked, my point it is very hard to tell how short a small man is. In RA case you can see his little legs. And he spent no money getting his pants taken up. Those pants have at least a30 inch inseam. I was vaguely aware RA had been arrested that week but when I finally paid attention, I begged hubby to wake up, we had another trial to watch. He was a brilliant lawyer and was a very tall man in my eyes. RA is BG the pants tells us so. Don’t get me started on those sleeves. How many 5’4 men were out there do you think there where out there that day?

My husband is the same height. I have spent many hours taking hems up on his pants. No way would I want him wandering around with baggy, sloppy pants! I guess the sewing part of my long ago Home Economics classes did come in handy.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Apparently this defense motion requires no response and was made simply to create a record for future appeals.
Important things like the judge made unhappy and mean faces and called NMcL a playful name, but not them. There are more stupid things too. Really this is the kind of things your preschooler comes home and complains about.
I don’t ever want to hear the defense claim they haven’t had time to go through the discovery again now that I know they spent the last two weeks coming up with this worthless document.
I do think RA deserves a good defense and I am sorry he has these guys instead.

 

[susiQ]

A shame they didn’t go to trial then after demanding a speedy one.

Where was their concern for their client when they realized this meant many more months locked away?!

Where was JG’s concern when she allowed for the State to continuously drip discovery over the course of many months, discovery that had long been available making it difficult for the D to prepare?? Where was her concern when she delayed everything due to an unlawful disqualification of RA’s counsel that required going to the SCOIN? Where was her concern when they did not transport Baston to testify under subpoena by defense to the abuse RA suffered at Westville that could have facilitated vacating the Safe Keeping Order? It will certainly be interesting to learn whose plate that falls on! JMHO

 

[susiQ]

Is there any chance the clerk screwed this one up somehow? I have no idea how these are meant to be filed so I am asking genuinely.

Is there a chance the clerk did it on purpose!!?? Just musing as I do . Apparently, it was found that evidence was leaking via that channel. Go figure! JMO

 

[susiQ]

The judge scheduling trail dates without holding a hearing, consulting either party and having no idea how many witnesses or exhibits there are is why D lost their speedy trial date and why there will likely be an issue with the October date.
For October, defense asks for 15 days, NM no clue, stunned, so the judge sets 1 month. NM unable to state how many of those days he wants himself. Judge says if defense can’t present this case (that she has no idea what their case is) within this entirely unknown time period, something is wrong with them.

Why is the judge just not giving each side the amount of days they request from her ? Why is she acting like the court costs are coming out of her own pocket ?

The whole issue with trial dates alone would be enough to have me fighting for a new judge. The hard end-date is unbelievable. Why would the goal of a fair trial ever be speeding through as fast as possible.

Indeed! It appears to me JG does not WANT a fair trial. What she appears to be setting up is an unfair trial and a conviction regardless of guilt or innocence. This whole thing stinks a whole lot worse than the cheese in Denmark. JMO

 

[susiQ]

I also don’t think they crossed the creek. Not by walking across it anyhow. Some other means? Maybe. The police have said the words DTH were spoken at the end of the bridge and they were found across the creek. Could they have been herded into a vehicle and driven there? Or? I don’t know. I’m interested to learn what the State thinks happened. I wonder if forensics was able to determine if they walked through the creek or not? I recall Le telling us no one has it right on YouTube and have always wondered what they believe happened.

When I think of the alternate scenario, driving them first (somewhere), JM’s girlfriend’s car comes to mind. He borrowed it and returned it with blood down the side. According to her (See FM), it took a number of car washes to get it all off. JMO

 

[Spartygirl]

#justiceforLibbyandAbby

 

[Salah11]

#justiceforLibbyandAbby
View attachment 511655

Two best friends who stood besides each other in the most horrific circumstances and unfortunately the man responsible cheated their families out of so many special precious moments.

No doubt RA is their man and justice may be delayed but it’s coming

Moo

 

[TTF14]

Apparently this defense motion requires no response and was made simply to create a record for future appeals.
Important things like the judge made unhappy and mean faces and called NMcL a playful name, but not them. There are more stupid things too. Really this is the kind of things your preschooler comes home and complains about.
I don’t ever want to hear the defense claim they haven’t had time to go through the discovery again now that I know they spent the last two weeks coming up with this worthless document.
I do think RA deserves a good defense and I am sorry he has these guys instead.

Calling someone a playful name like "ding dong" insinuates familiarity. Camaraderie. Fondness. Not appropriate in a courtroom where she's supposed to at least give the appearance of being unbiased. I've talked to someone who has been in the courtroom and they've said that her tone of voice with the defense is terrible compared to how she talks to the State (but they think it's funny since they're anti-defense). Now, these are seasoned attorneys, so I'm sure they're used to that, as all defense attorneys probably are. It goes with the job. But, they also know, since they are seasoned attorneys, that it's not OK for a judge to appear to be so biased. They've probably filed motions like this before, and know they have to give examples if they are going to allege it. If they didn't give examples, folks would be crying, "Like what?? If she's so biased, give us an example!" They can't win. I doubt the example provided is much different than other examples given by other attorneys in other cases when a judge acts inappropriately chummy with the prosecution. And now it's on the record. And they made a good point about the law stating perceived bias, an appearance of bias. There doesn't have to be hard and fast proof that she IS biased since we can't read her mind. But she's not even supposed to be appearing like she's biased, and at that she has failed. IMO

I'm more interested in what she's going to do about the lie told about Baston. Either she, Tobe Leazenby, or the deputy who wrote the report lied. I really don't think it was her, so she MUST be furious that either Tobe or the deputy lied about what SHE said/instructed. That threatens her reputation as a judge, so she must be spitting nails. I would be if someone put untrue words in my mouth.

We'd expect that anyway. Let's wait and see.

IMO MOO

 

[gremlin444]

I've seen people mention this a few times, and I'm honestly curious:

Does anyone have any examples of a trial where the defense took the same amount of days or more as the prosecution did in presenting the case? I've not seen it in any of the cases I've followed, and I'm not coming up with anything in my searching--but I know it could be a matter of me not hitting upon the right keywords. I'd love to read about some examples.

Given that the burden of proof is on the prosecution and a lot of the defense's work is done through cross examination on the prosecution's "time," I would think that even with a SODDI defense it would be really difficult for a defense team to use as many days as the prosecution.

 

[TTF14]

I've seen people mention this a few times, and I'm honestly curious:

Does anyone have any examples of a trial where the defense took the same amount of days or more as the prosecution did in presenting the case? I've not seen it in any of the cases I've followed, and I'm not coming up with anything in my searching--but I know it could be a matter of me not hitting upon the right keywords. I'd love to read about some examples.

Given that the burden of proof is on the prosecution and a lot of the defense's work is done through cross examination on the prosecution's "time," I would think that even with a SODDI defense it would be really difficult for a defense team to use as many days as the prosecution.

I've never seen it. I don't think this defense team is asking for the same amount of time either, but definitely more than "usual" it seems. They probably know Nick is not going to call some witnesses they think should really be called.

IMO MOO

 

[Ravenmoon]

We don't know that they were SAd, but I get your point. However, in this case, I think it's way, way, way bigger than that.

JMO IMO

Well, one girl was found completely nude and the other was redressed.
He is an adult with NO REASON to have them appear nude in front of him.
That is SA.

 

[M. Kay]

Indeed! It appears to me JG does not WANT a fair trial. What she appears to be setting up is an unfair trial and a conviction regardless of guilt or innocence.

I come to WS for all comments, with an eye out for those who know the workings of the law since that is not my expertise. I'm open-minded about this Judge for now. Saying Judge G. doesn't want a fair trial, with all caps, is 'a bridge too far', way too soon, as I see it.

 

[TTF14]

Well, one girl was found completely nude and the other was redressed.
He is an adult with NO REASON to have them appear nude in front of him.
That is SA.

That might be true, legally speaking. (Not necessarily RA, but whoever did it....he's still an innocent man after all.)

IMO MOO

 

[Ravenmoon]

That might be true, legally speaking. (Not necessarily RA, but whoever did it....he's still an innocent man after all.)

IMO MOO

Wrong.
It is SA.
Not just in a legal sense.

 

[TTF14]

Wrong.
It is SA.
Not just in a legal sense.

I'm not arguing that it's not. I do wonder why RA hasn't been charged with it, though.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Where was JG’s concern when she allowed for the State to continuously drip discovery over the course of many months, discovery that had long been available making it difficult for the D to prepare?? Where was her concern when she delayed everything due to an unlawful disqualification of RA’s counsel that required going to the SCOIN? Where was her concern when they did not transport Baston to testify under subpoena by defense to the abuse RA suffered at Westville that could have facilitated vacating the Safe Keeping Order? It will certainly be interesting to learn whose plate that falls on! JMHO

That’s the defense’s claim. I doubt that’s the true and complete story.
It’s hard to ignore the fact the defense was looking for an Odinist expert two weeks before the scheduled trial. Pretty sure they were aware of the pagan thing for awhile since they’re the ones who conjured it up.
They just don’t do any work that concerns RA’s charges. They are consumed with their feud with the judge.
The defense has been receiving discovery, they just choose to ignore it, then whine they’re not getting it, then it’s proven that they already have it.
They need to do their jobs.

My opinion