Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #186

[steeltowngirl]

I hear you. I think he was led on a wild goose chase trying to pin EF ( whose sister claims he made a shocking statement) and BH ( who pasted unsavory pictures on SM) together in some way.

Both individuals were definitely worth investigating but ultimately didn’t lead to any connection to the crime.

Unfortunately he was only given a small part of the large multifaceted investigation so he couldn’t understand RA’s arrest. Doesn’t mean that isn’t where the case evidence led. Sometimes it isn’t the boogeyman you know.
All my opinions

Click may have been frustrated when the investigation turned in a different direction in 2019.

Notably, TC may believe the Odin crew is involved, but not with a ritual as a motive. He also did not rule out RA’s involvement.

"But at the same time, he's saying that he does not believe the underlying motive was religious sacrifice.

"He has not told us on the record what his view of the motive was, but he just provided that clarity saying that he's essentially disputing elements of the way the defense rolled it out and also perhaps the underlying motive but he's not disputing who they're accusing."

Reading between the lines of Click's words, Cain said it was clear to her that he didn't believe Allen was responsible for the murders, or at the very least solely responsible.

Former Delphi cop thinks suspect is innocent but doesn't believe cult theory

A RETIRED detective who investigated the Delphi murders doesn’t believe Richard Allen is responsible for the infamous killings – but he also doesn’t buy the defense’s claims…

www.the-sun.com

 

[Cyber sleuth]

The Purdue professor was the expert who stated that the crime scene had a connection to “odinism” . TC is the person who investigated the 3rd party culprits.

I think my prior comment was deleted. The MSM coverage on this case doesn’t even begin the touch the depths of it and we are limited with what we can openly discuss here so I keep just repeating how important it is to independently research the claims made to see for yourself.

1) there is no evidence that the Purdue Professor ever saw the crime scene or photos of the crime scene.
2) I think he stated that the diagrams of sticks he had seen ( so most likely a rough sketch) may vaguely represent what someone might think is a rune.
I think this is where LE were trying to make the suspect fit the crime.
This is not uncommon when you have a person or persons that act in a way they implicates them, like making a shocking statement to a relative or positing weird unsavory photos on social media.

I can be 100% wrong. There could be runes all over the crime scene and a whole manifesto pledging oath to Odin ( if there is such a thing). But I think we would have heard a lot more about this in the Franks if there was an abundance of evidence that this was a ritual. Instead of speaking of an abundance of Odinist symbols at the crime scene the defense works real hard to try to just connect these guys together. And barely do so.
Defense gives us some sticks, some body positioning, and a blood splatter.
If it was a ritual- I don’t think Odin would have been pleased with their lack of ceremony.
All my opinions.

 

[TTF14]

1) there is no evidence that the Purdue Professor ever saw the crime scene or photos of the crime scene.
2) I think he stated that the diagrams of sticks he had seen ( so most likely a rough sketch) may vaguely represent what someone might think is a rune.
I think this is where LE were trying to make the suspect fit the crime.
This is not uncommon when you have a person or persons that act in a way they implicates them, like making a shocking statement to a relative or positing weird unsavory photos on social media.

I can be 100% wrong. There could be runes all over the crime scene and a whole manifesto pledging oath to Odin ( if there is such a thing). But I think we would have heard a lot more about this in the Franks if there was an abundance of evidence that this was a ritual. Instead of speaking of an abundance of Odinist symbols at the crime scene the defense works real hard to try to just connect these guys together. And barely do so.
Defense gives us some sticks, some body positioning, and a blood splatter.
If it was a ritual- I don’t think Odin would have been pleased with their lack of ceremony.
All my opinions.

The crime scene was staged.

 

[nadia90]

I hear you. I think he was led on a wild goose chase trying to pin EF ( whose sister claims he made a shocking statement) and BH ( who pasted unsavory pictures on SM) together in some way.

Both individuals were definitely worth investigating but ultimately didn’t lead to any connection to the crime.

Unfortunately he was only given a small part of the large multifaceted investigation so he couldn’t understand RA’s arrest. Doesn’t mean that isn’t where the case evidence led. Sometimes it isn’t the boogeyman you know.
All my opinions

Yes!!!

 

[Charlot123]

.

I hear you. I think he was led on a wild goose chase trying to pin EF ( whose sister claims he made a shocking statement) and BH ( who pasted unsavory pictures on SM) together in some way.

Both individuals were definitely worth investigating but ultimately didn’t lead to any connection to the crime.

Unfortunately he was only given a small part of the large multifaceted investigation so he couldn’t understand RA’s arrest. Doesn’t mean that isn’t where the case evidence led. Sometimes it isn’t the boogeyman you know.
All my opinions

I shall always be asking if indeed BH was investigated well enough, but I strongly doubt that the murders have anything to do with Norse pagan rituals. It didn't happen before or after, so, extremely doubtful. Plus, the girls, from what I know about them, are not the "target group" for odinites.

That a person like TL, who believed that the girls went to watch the last movie in Logansport, could totally drop the investigation ball, I can believe, and easily.

 

[grannygates]

The Purdue professor was the expert who stated that the crime scene had a connection to “odinism” . TC is the person who investigated the 3rd party culprits.

I think my prior comment was deleted. The MSM coverage on this case doesn’t even begin the touch the depths of it and we are limited with what we can openly discuss here so I keep just repeating how important it is to independently research the claims made to see for yourself.

Oh and the FBI behavioural analysis unit. Sorry I have a hard time recalling all the details at once

 

[steeltowngirl]

Some other former FBI agents with different theories.

Doug Kouns, retired FBI agent from the Indianapolis area, discussed one-time person of interest in the Delphi murder investigation Kegan Kline on NewsNation’s “Rush Hour.”

Kouns said it is “very likely” Kline, who admitted to using a fake online profile to solicit photos from at least 15 underage girls, is connected to the arrest of Allen.

“It’s possible, just speculating, of course here, but it seems likely to me based on my professional experience, you know, he’s got his own issues with the charges that he’s facing. And perhaps he had, he provided the information that led to this arrest and could be given some credit,” Kouns said. “It’s hard to say but I would think it’s very likely.”

Former FBI agent theorizes about elusive search for answers in Delphi murders

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — News 8 continues to search for answers and the truth in the murders of Abby Williams and Libby German in Delphi. Monday marked five years since the girls’ bodies were found on a trail. Michael Tabman, a retired FBI special agent in charge, talked Monday with News 8 about...

www.wishtv.com

…………
Michael Tabman, a retired FBI special agent in charge, talked Monday with News 8 about the possible connection between the deaths, a child *advertiser censored* case, and a social media account. Tabman is not involved in the investigation of the murders.

Kegan Kline has admitted to creating the “anthony_shots” profile, which is being investigated by Indiana State Police in the murders of Abby, 13, and Libby, 14.

Kline has not been charged in the girls murders; no one has. He’s in the Miami County Jail awaiting trial on 30 counts including child *advertiser censored* and child solicitation. He is due back in court at the end of this month.

Tabman said about Kline, “If he was let go after confessing, if he was let go after all these documentations and forensic evidence that the FBI and the state police shared and he was so cooperative, my guess is that he was cooperating on something else, against someone else and they didn’t want to bring that to anyone’s attention.”

Former FBI agent theorizes about elusive search for answers in Delphi murders

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — News 8 continues to search for answers and the truth in the murders of Abby Williams and Libby German in Delphi. Monday marked five years since the girls’ bodies were found on a trail. Michael Tabman, a retired FBI special agent in charge, talked Monday with News 8 about...

www.wishtv.com

…………
DELPHI, Ind. — Former FBI Special Agent in Charge Paul Keenan oversaw the bureau’s role in the Delphi case for nearly two years. He said investigators always thought that the crime could’ve been committed by more than one person.

When prosecutor Nicholas McLeland said in court on Tuesday that he believes Allen did not act alone, Keenan said he wasn’t surprised.

“During the investigation, when I was there, we were still open to anything, whether it be one person or multiple people,” Keenan said.

Former Delphi investigator always thought more than one person could be involved

Former FBI Special Agent in Charge Paul Keenan oversaw the bureau’s role in the Delphi case for nearly two years. He said investigators always thought that the crime could’ve been commi…

fox59.com

 

[grannygates]

Finally something I can just MSM quote, the early FBI agent who requested the RL search warrant also noted the crime scene was staged.

“In citing reasons for the search warrant, the FBI agent noted that pieces of clothing from one of the victims were missing and that it "appeared the girls' bodies were moved and staged." There were no visible signs of a struggle or fight.”

FBI agent believed clothing taken and bodies 'staged' in Delphi murders search warrant request

In citing reasons for the search warrant, an FBI agent said pieces of one of the victim's clothes were missing and that it appeared the girls' bodies were staged.

www.wthr.com

 

[grannygates]

1) there is no evidence that the Purdue Professor ever saw the crime scene or photos of the crime scene.
2) I think he stated that the diagrams of sticks he had seen ( so most likely a rough sketch) may vaguely represent what someone might think is a rune.
I think this is where LE were trying to make the suspect fit the crime.
This is not uncommon when you have a person or persons that act in a way they implicates them, like making a shocking statement to a relative or positing weird unsavory photos on social media.

I can be 100% wrong. There could be runes all over the crime scene and a whole manifesto pledging oath to Odin ( if there is such a thing). But I think we would have heard a lot more about this in the Franks if there was an abundance of evidence that this was a ritual. Instead of speaking of an abundance of Odinist symbols at the crime scene the defense works real hard to try to just connect these guys together. And barely do so.
Defense gives us some sticks, some body positioning, and a blood splatter.
If it was a ritual- I don’t think Odin would have been pleased with their lack of ceremony.
All my opinions.

The professor was contacted by investigators prior to FEB 2018 and I am completely assuming the expert would be given an accurate depiction of the crime scene or photographs to review by law enforcement . That’s my expectation of law enforcement - I have no idea if that is true. IMO This isn’t a defense expert who was given skewed or limited evidence to promote one theory.

“The defense claims there is a taped statement from Turco that includes the following:

• That the professor stated after seeing the pattern of the sticks that "it was given" someone was trying to replicate a Germanic runic script.
• That the professor consulted with a colleague from Harvard who agreed with the Purdue professor.
• That he "could certainly imagine that this was somebody's idea that when you do human sacrifice you carve runes ... there are some poetic sources that would sort of support that idea that somebody might have come across ... that scenario seems entirely plausible to me."

There is also an additional quote in the notice (linked below) where the professor states makes the comment about “odin fanboys”. Anyone who’s interested in reading the Notice themselves can read the direct quotes from the professor to see what is allegedly in the taped statement. The defense gets sassy about the professor debacle and I know that rubs people the wrong way lol

Richard Allen's attorneys name Purdue professor and say police hid statement on Odinist connection to Delphi killings

The court documents claim the crime scene had pagan symbols formed with sticks, with tree branches and on a tree.

www.wthr.com

https://www.scribd.com/document/675330653/Richard-Allen-Notice-PDF

 

[Ravenmoon]

Finally something I can just MSM quote, the early FBI agent who requested the RL search warrant also noted the crime scene was staged.

“In citing reasons for the search warrant, the FBI agent noted that pieces of clothing from one of the victims were missing and that it "appeared the girls' bodies were moved and staged." There were no visible signs of a struggle or fight.”

FBI agent believed clothing taken and bodies 'staged' in Delphi murders search warrant request

In citing reasons for the search warrant, an FBI agent said pieces of one of the victim's clothes were missing and that it appeared the girls' bodies were staged.

www.wthr.com

Agree.

But, staging can be something like undressing victims for shock value, correct?

 

[Charlot123]

Snipped for focus:

I agree. I think defence attorneys are becoming good at spinning conspiracies out of the real failings of law enforcement and prosecution.

e.g we know way too many DAs offices engage in discovery violations - some bad. That doesn't mean they are covering for the "real killer".

e.g. we know in run of the mill cases involving unsophisticated defendants constitutional rights might get violated - but that does not mean LE are framing people in high profile cases which get high scrutiny.

Indeed the history of this case - RL, KAK, EF etc, indicates that they did not in fact look to fit up suspects

IMO

I always believed that true conspiracy is very hard to organize, because where can one find a large group of smart and disciplined people? When it comes to LE, between “malicious intent” “covering up” and “incompetence”, I would err on the side of incompetence. It took me a while to decide in this case, but when I heard Doug Carter, commenting on the audio recording, “it was the voice of the Devil”, it dawned on me, “incompetence, not malice.” Next time, they collected DNA from 300+ people to no avail. I thought, “does he even believe DNA exists?” Sometimes I wish ISP were covering up for someone “big”, one could sleuth the person, and it would be movie-like. But on their podcast, only Robert Ives sounded coherently. Having listened to the audio multiple times, as well as the recordings of RA’s voice, I am sure that both are human with a “hollow” note in them. But in such surreal atmosphere, it is easy for the defense to see the runes, and the odinites. Essentially, the same.

ETA: the link. In this article. DC literally said it was the voice of devil coming through the killer. BTW, DC has hollow voice, too, so I understand the comments about "generic Midwestern Man voice", "generic clothes", etc. The BG was no odinite, no devil, likely a regular Midwestern man, and the rest around the case stems from the same human trait, gullibility.

https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/new-clues-in-chilling-murders-of-girls-who-filmed-their-killer/news-story/60e64d709e947d70ce445ee308346e8a

 

[Charlot123]

The professor was contacted by investigators prior to FEB 2018 and I am completely assuming the expert would be given an accurate depiction of the crime scene or photographs to review by law enforcement . That’s my expectation of law enforcement - I have no idea if that is true. IMO This isn’t a defense expert who was given skewed or limited evidence to promote one theory.

“The defense claims there is a taped statement from Turco that includes the following:

• That the professor stated after seeing the pattern of the sticks that "it was given" someone was trying to replicate a Germanic runic script.
• That the professor consulted with a colleague from Harvard who agreed with the Purdue professor.
• That he "could certainly imagine that this was somebody's idea that when you do human sacrifice you carve runes ... there are some poetic sources that would sort of support that idea that somebody might have come across ... that scenario seems entirely plausible to me."

There is also an additional quote in the notice (linked below) where the professor states makes the comment about “odin fanboys”. Anyone who’s interested in reading the Notice themselves can read the direct quotes from the professor to see what is allegedly in the taped statement. The defense gets sassy about the professor debacle and I know that rubs people the wrong way lol

Richard Allen's attorneys name Purdue professor and say police hid statement on Odinist connection to Delphi killings

The court documents claim the crime scene had pagan symbols formed with sticks, with tree branches and on a tree.

www.wthr.com

https://www.scribd.com/document/675330653/Richard-Allen-Notice-PDF

OK, they probably speak about Poetic Edda, an Icelandic saga.

It is not that when you do human sacrifice, you carve the runes. The opposite: Odin sacrificed himself to get the runes; something like the saga about the beginning of writing.

Here. The Great Myths #49: Odin Sacrifices Himself (Norse)

I hope that everyone understands that when we are reading Norse sagas, we are reading the products of Christians living between the XII and the XIII centuries in Iceland. Like when we are reading Greek myths, it is Homer, Virgil, Sophocles, real people. We have no clue what the ancients believed in, only what those people wrote down. And - there are no virgins mentioned in the saga about the runes. I interpret it differently, for example, in the time of handwritten books, what leader won't sacrifice himself for the Gutenberg printing press? Same with Odin; the sacrifice for literacy. And I bet odinites read the text, btw.

 

[mrjitty]

1) there is no evidence that the Purdue Professor ever saw the crime scene or photos of the crime scene.
2) I think he stated that the diagrams of sticks he had seen ( so most likely a rough sketch) may vaguely represent what someone might think is a rune.
I think this is where LE were trying to make the suspect fit the crime.
This is not uncommon when you have a person or persons that act in a way they implicates them, like making a shocking statement to a relative or positing weird unsavory photos on social media.

I can be 100% wrong. There could be runes all over the crime scene and a whole manifesto pledging oath to Odin ( if there is such a thing). But I think we would have heard a lot more about this in the Franks if there was an abundance of evidence that this was a ritual. Instead of speaking of an abundance of Odinist symbols at the crime scene the defense works real hard to try to just connect these guys together. And barely do so.
Defense gives us some sticks, some body positioning, and a blood splatter.
If it was a ritual- I don’t think Odin would have been pleased with their lack of ceremony.
All my opinions.

BIB

This is why i think AB overplayed his hand in the motion to dismiss hearing with Click. He went on an Odyssey about JM and a phone and abduction - and then surrogates raced to spread abduction conspiracies from that testimony. But there was nothing there. Nothing to do with the case.

Unless AB is holding some trump card we don't yet know about, I think this will all unravel at the hearing on the motion in limine. He'll have to tell us how these suspects are connected to the crime.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

BIB

This is why i think AB overplayed his hand in the motion to dismiss hearing with Click. He went on an Odyssey about JM and a phone and abduction - and then surrogates raced to spread abduction conspiracies from that testimony. But there was nothing there. Nothing to do with the case.

Unless AB is holding some trump card we don't yet know about, I think this will all unravel at the hearing on the motion in limine. He'll have to tell us how these suspects are connected to the crime.

MOO

Click has over inserted himself in this investigation. He got an attorney and sent a certified letter to NMcL about his 'concerns'. Then when the State didn't divulge any confidential case information with him when they met up, I think he really turned against the P. Enough to talk to the D? Maybe.

JMO

 

[FromGermany1]

Kline has not been charged in the girls murders; no one has. He’s in the Miami County Jail awaiting trial on 30 counts including child *advertiser censored* and child solicitation. He is due back in court at the end of this month.

Tabman said about Kline, “If he was let go after confessing, if he was let go after all these documentations and forensic evidence that the FBI and the state police shared and he was so cooperative, my guess is that he was cooperating on something else, against someone else and they didn’t want to bring that to anyone’s attention.”

bbm
That's very interesting to me (and I hope, I understand it well).

 

[FromGermany1]

I still think that was LE''s way of getting to BG, letting them know they had found the A_shots (and others) account and making a public announcement there was some form of SM exchange after all. Sort of a 'tickling the wire' kind of move.

If you were to see the sketch person YBG from 50 yards (RA was on the first platform of MHB) with his beanie hat on, I believe it could pass for RA, especially when at the time he was much slimmer and younger looking. I look forward to BB's actual testimony at trial instead of the FM version.

ALL MOO

YBG has been described as a young man with fluffy hair. I think, a beanie is not to be confused with fluffy hair. But you are right: we will see ....