Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #187

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Gunther Toody said:
My opinion is that Richard Allen did not commit this crime, although he will probably get convicted of it. People do not go from living a seemingly normal life to torturer, murderer of children, then back to a normal life.

To do so, would take the mindset of a psychopath, which Richard Allen does not appear to be.

There were no signs that I am aware of regarding a change in his demeanor after the crime that would indicate psychopathic behavior. The only alleged link to him was the bullet as far as I can tell. But, it was an unfired bullet. How do ballistics play a role in that identification?

And, how did a bullet allegedly from his gun get there? He would have had to rack the gun, eject the bullet, and not know if was on the ground. Then, he would have had to bury it between the bodies? Again, that makes no sense and the killer would have to know the bullet would lead back to him

The location of the crime as well as the steps taken to carry it out make no sense. If psychopathic murder was the intent, why go through all of the steps, such as crossing the river, positioning branches over the bodies, undressing, and then redressing at least one of the bodies, all with the risk of being caught in a relatively open area?

And there was no blood or DNA found on Allen's clothing, was there?

No, I don't think he did this, but like other high-profile crimes, he will get convicted because due to public pressure plus the fact that no juror wants to be known as the juror who helped free a potential child killer, he will go down.

Jurors that convict him will likely have the mindset that if he is truly innocent it will come out on appeal, and they will have a clean conscience.
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He was arrested over 5 years later so that’s not proof of anything. Unfortunately we know mistakes were made but they got their man in the end imo
 
Gunther Toody said:
My opinion is that Richard Allen did not commit this crime, although he will probably get convicted of it. People do not go from living a seemingly normal life to torturer, murderer of children, then back to a normal life.

To do so, would take the mindset of a psychopath, which Richard Allen does not appear to be.

There were no signs that I am aware of regarding a change in his demeanor after the crime that would indicate psychopathic behavior. The only alleged link to him was the bullet as far as I can tell. But, it was an unfired bullet. How do ballistics play a role in that identification?

And, how did a bullet allegedly from his gun get there? He would have had to rack the gun, eject the bullet, and not know if was on the ground. Then, he would have had to bury it between the bodies? Again, that makes no sense and the killer would have to know the bullet would lead back to him

The location of the crime as well as the steps taken to carry it out make no sense. If psychopathic murder was the intent, why go through all of the steps, such as crossing the river, positioning branches over the bodies, undressing, and then redressing at least one of the bodies, all with the risk of being caught in a relatively open area?

And there was no blood or DNA found on Allen's clothing, was there?

No, I don't think he did this, but like other high-profile crimes, he will get convicted because due to public pressure plus the fact that no juror wants to be known as the juror who helped free a potential child killer, he will go down.

Jurors that convict him will likely have the mindset that if he is truly innocent it will come out on appeal, and they will have a clean conscience.
Click to expand...

If he was innocent and LE wanted to frame someone, why wait 7 years to do so???

95% chance you are wrong.
 
For it’s laughable when people claim he has been framed.

He has placed himself out on that bridge and he matches the video that Libby took. He also places himself around the time frame and a witness can place him on platform 1 which again he admits he walked out to.

So how exactly has he been framed? :D

IMHO
 
MiniMoo said:
CAMERAS:
CCTV/TRAFFIC/DASHBOARDS/ANY...

I am a firm believer that cameras never lie when it comes to original footage or photos so is there anything known about any video footage found or photos captured that day to do with the accused or the girls.

Is there absolutely nothing.

If there were cars parked in the area where the older sister dropped them off - did any of those cars have dashboard cameras that may have captured something even if it may have seemed minor or irrelevant.

Traffic light cameras? Home security? Anything?

Libby was intelligent enough to use her mobile phone to film what she did, but it obviously wasn't enough.

I find it really strange that only Libby's phone had images of the suspect and not a traffic camera or anything else.

The problem with key witnesses is that they may not always pay attention to certain details whether the time of day, what colour of clothing was worn or the type, what colour hair or eyes, scars or no scars - if interviewed years down the track memories tend to fade.
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One reality is there probably isn't great cctv coverage in the area.

But that raises an interesting point.

The Defense attempted a SODDI defense and as yet can't put together a substantiative case for it. Notably they haven't offered an alibi defense. No attempt that I've seen, outside of an adjustment to the hours he says he was there, to place him anywhere else.

Which makes me wonder what else the investigation has revealed, that the State has lined up for trial.

There is likely very damning evidence AWAY from the MHB too.

RA's pattern of cellphone use and any aberration/gap.

RA's work schedule and time card. When he was at work and when he wasn't.

Unfortunately, because of his late arrest, they'd not going to be a wealth of ring footage from businesses and less so, residences.

So we aren't probably going to see neighborhood cctv of him coming and going from his neighborhood, those reels long overwritten.

Even so, the Defense is trying to park RA at an afternoon matinee, a midday shift at CVS, at home watching Judge Judy.

And since they haven't, it's because IMO they can't.

Maybe there are a lot of Midwestern men who loosely fit BG's description, but how many of them WEREN'T AT WORK on February 13? Middle of the day on a typical work day. And why wasn't RA at work? Mondays off? That Monday off? Scheduled? Unscheduled? Was he the keeper of the schedule? Did he work that day but left early? Important circumstantial evidence.

As important as where RA was from 1 to 5 that say is where he wasn't and where he was the rest of the day, before and after.

JMO
 
m00c0w said:
You state that the only alleged link to him was the bullet, but he admitted to being in the park, at the same area as the girls, and even saw the girls. He matches the description of the suspected killer, according to both witness statements and the video evidence. And then, yes, a bullet forensically linked to his firearm was located at the crime scene between the girls. And those are just the facts to establish probable cause.

He also confessed to the crime over recorded jail phones.

I’m a little bit confused, as well, by your assertion that only a psychopath would not change behaviors after such a heinous crime (not even going to ask how you know he didn’t), but also that you saw no changes in behavior that would make you think he’s a psychopath. Those two things seem heavily contradictory?

JMO
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Being in the park does not make him a criminal or a suspect.
The fact that he admitted seeing the girls, certainly plays into his likely innocence. True criminals want to distance themselves from every aspect of the crime.

There were no witnesses to the killing so how does he match the description of the suspected killer? What did witnesses claim to see other than a man who matched the description in the one brief video released by law enforcement?
"Bridge Guy" was never proven to be the killer.

The bullet had extraction marks, that were similar to that which would have been created when racked from his weapon. However, any manufacturer with good quality control would create weapons with similar patterns in each weapon produced. I wonder if they tested any other weapons from that particular lot. I don't see that as being "forensically linked."

As for his confession...people confess to all manor of crimes. That does not make him the killer.

Statistically, it is very rare for a killer, especially in a case such as this, to step out of character, commit a heinous double murder, and then step back into a character of normalcy.

The only two that I can think of:
Dennis Rader (BTK killer) Lived a double life, appearing as a normal family man and community member while committing a series of murders.

Chris Watts: Seemingly led a normal life before murdering his wife and daughters.

There were no other similar crimes near Delphi that I am aware of, so this appears a singular case.
 
I do not understand people tying themselves to his innocence, before even a single day of evidence.

On balance of what is known - the bullet, the released snippet of footage, his being in that place at that time and that tiny matter of having confessed to it - it sure seems _likely_ he did it.
 
marv hucker said:
I do not understand people tying themselves to his innocence, before even a single day of evidence.

On balance of what is known - the bullet, the released snippet of footage, his being in that place at that time and that tiny matter of having confessed to it - it sure seems _likely_ he did it.
Click to expand...

100% agree with you.

We don’t even know that much and from the little we do know it places him at the crime scene and involved in the murders of these two young girls.

Imo
 
Gunther Toody said:
Being in the park does not make him a criminal or a suspect.
The fact that he admitted seeing the girls, certainly plays into his likely innocence. True criminals want to distance themselves from every aspect of the crime.

There were no witnesses to the killing so how does he match the description of the suspected killer? What did witnesses claim to see other than a man who matched the description in the one brief video released by law enforcement?
"Bridge Guy" was never proven to be the killer.

The bullet had extraction marks, that were similar to that which would have been created when racked from his weapon. However, any manufacturer with good quality control would create weapons with similar patterns in each weapon produced. I wonder if they tested any other weapons from that particular lot. I don't see that as being "forensically linked."

As for his confession...people confess to all manor of crimes. That does not make him the killer.

Statistically, it is very rare for a killer, especially in a case such as this, to step out of character, commit a heinous double murder, and then step back into a character of normalcy.

The only two that I can think of:
Dennis Rader (BTK killer) Lived a double life, appearing as a normal family man and community member while committing a series of murders.

Chris Watts: Seemingly led a normal life before murdering his wife and daughters.

There were no other similar crimes near Delphi that I am aware of, so this appears a singular case.
Click to expand...

The Bridge Guy is likely the last person to have had contact with Libby and Abby or to have seen them both alive and is therefore a strong candidate as their killer.

However, is R.A. >>> B.G. - that is what needs to be confirmed and established beyond a reasonable doubt as well as physical evidence to support the murder allegations.

The police have got the suspect they feel is responsible, but at the end of the day it all comes down to solid or convincing circumstantial evidence and reliable witnesses, if any.

Facts only - no hearsay.

MOO
 
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If RA isn’t Bridge Guy that means he become blind out on that bridge because he didn’t see Libby and Abby and he missed BG as well.

Thats quite strange considering he would of literally had to trip over all 3 of those people.

Moo
 
Gunther Toody said:
There were no witnesses to the killing so how does he match the description of the suspected killer?
Click to expand...
Libby and Abby were witnesses. Sadly, both were also the murdered victims. But Libby became an incredible witness to her own murder when she videoed the suspected killer.

Whether or not RA matches that photographic description remains a matter of opinion. Prosecution will need to prove to a jury that RA=BG.

jmo
 
MiniMoo said:
CAMERAS:
CCTV/TRAFFIC/DASHBOARDS/ANY...

I am a firm believer that cameras never lie when it comes to original footage or photos so is there anything known about any video footage found or photos captured that day to do with the accused or the girls.

Is there absolutely nothing.

If there were cars parked in the area where the older sister dropped them off - did any of those cars have dashboard cameras that may have captured something even if it may have seemed minor or irrelevant.

Traffic light cameras? Home security? Anything?

Libby was intelligent enough to use her mobile phone to film what she did, but it obviously wasn't enough.

I find it really strange that only Libby's phone had images of the suspect and not a traffic camera or anything else.

The problem with key witnesses is that they may not always pay attention to certain details whether the time of day, what colour of clothing was worn or the type, what colour hair or eyes, scars or no scars - if interviewed years down the track memories tend to fade.
Click to expand...
We don't know exactly what evidence the State has and won't until trial. What little we have learned from the Prosecution came from their PCA and the SW for RA's home. Rightly so because of the gag order, which they respected.

The rest was released by the Defense in their infamous 136 page Franks. The bullet COC and no photos nonsense started as SM rumor spin from that document as did countless others IMO.

Delphi isn't a major metropolis, there isn't a ton of public CCTV in that tiny town. There is some video evidence from a camera at the HHS showing a car that resembled RA's arriving at approx 1:30ish and showing witness BB as she arrived and left exactly like she stated, as noted in the PCA.

Libby's video, the ejected unspent bullet matching RA's SS, along with RA's placing himself at the scene at the time of the murders, dressed almost identically including a possible face covering, and his many confessions, especially to his wife and mom will be the Coupe De Gras IMO.

An unbiased jury presented with the FACTS and the EVIDENCE instead of conspiracy and evil Odins performing ritual sacrifices plot will be able to reach a decision of guilt BARD. That's just my opinion in this case.

DocumentCloud

moo
 
FromGermany1 said:
I think, KY was the reason as to why police got a tip. After all, Libby's mum is living there and Libby visited every now and then. - I don't want to express, that Libby's mum had anything to do with both cases!
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Libby's Mom lives around 80 miles away from Florence, KY where the Stevenson's were murdered.
 
MiniMoo said:
The Illusive Bullet

Well, more like a bullet that has no photos or video evidence following its discovery in the ground between Abby and Libby according to that Final Draft.

Seems like the perpetrator definitely had a gun on him and must have fired it for some reason.
Click to expand...
It was an ejected, unspent round recovered between the 2 girl's bodies.

The first paragraph comes from the Defense's Franks Motion. So there's that...but we do know the Defense acknowledged at least 3 pictures of the unspent bullet. Again, they make opposing and contradictory statements in that FM (although they try and just squeak by the whole mistruth with a footnote).

JMO
 
Gunther Toody said:
Being in the park does not make him a criminal or a suspect.
The fact that he admitted seeing the girls, certainly plays into his likely innocence. True criminals want to distance themselves from every aspect of the crime.

There were no witnesses to the killing so how does he match the description of the suspected killer? What did witnesses claim to see other than a man who matched the description in the one brief video released by law enforcement?
"Bridge Guy" was never proven to be the killer.

The bullet had extraction marks, that were similar to that which would have been created when racked from his weapon. However, any manufacturer with good quality control would create weapons with similar patterns in each weapon produced. I wonder if they tested any other weapons from that particular lot. I don't see that as being "forensically linked."

As for his confession...people confess to all manor of crimes. That does not make him the killer.

Statistically, it is very rare for a killer, especially in a case such as this, to step out of character, commit a heinous double murder, and then step back into a character of normalcy.

The only two that I can think of:
Dennis Rader (BTK killer) Lived a double life, appearing as a normal family man and community member while committing a series of murders.

Chris Watts: Seemingly led a normal life before murdering his wife and daughters.

There were no other similar crimes near Delphi that I am aware of, so this appears a singular case.
Click to expand...
RA knew the girls had seen him when they passed each other on the Freedom Trail. He had to admit it or make himself look even more suspicious IMO.

RA confessed after the State's discovery was dumped on him. He knew the gig was up that's why he called wife and mom.

One off murders happen everyday in America, it doesn't have to be just Delphi. Maybe it was something RA had been fantasizing about and finally decided today was the day? Maybe he catfished them online and set it up? Maybe he was involved somehow in the big CSAM operation going on in Indiana during that time?

Sometimes we will never know the Why, it doesn't make sense to a normal thinking person.

JMO
 
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