Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #188

[photographer4]

Here’s one reason I’m mad. They placed motive for the murders on the Odinist’s perceived hatred towards the mother of one the victims - due to alleged interracial dating.

Entirely unfounded and unsubstantiated.
Disgusting.

jmo

But clearly, this is allowable - no consequences for this particular act as of yet that I know of... do you expect one to be forthcoming?

 

[girlhasnoname]

Because B and R have more ethics and responsibility than she thought or intelligence to not put in writting. If they would give green light, those group probably would done that. Which is scaring. But I don't think B and R will risk that.

I don't think it's beyond the D in the ethical department, maybe they can use carrier pigeons, burn after reading, or if all else fails, eat the docs. RA tried that route.

JMO

 

[photographer4]

it’s all a looooong telephone game. And no actual screenshots will ever be posted (and I don’t want them! I think this is really stupid)

Its a listeners interpretation of a podcasters dramatic interpretation of cherry picked YouTuber group chats, out of context.

Or stories from a disgruntled YouTuber about what his other YouTuber friends said.

This has nothing to do with the actual case and is all made-up inflated 2nd hand info drama to sell a podcast. It shouldn’t be allowed IMO

all MOO

Completely agree with you -its all he said she said nonsense! Of course they won't release the actual messages they have. It wouldn't serve their purpose I guess.

 

[steeltowngirl]

But clearly, this is allowable - no consequences for this particular act as of yet that I know of... do you expect one to be forthcoming?

The question you asked was why are people mad about the FM. I provided one of my own reasons. I have no expectations about consequences. I do expect not to be lectured on here about wasting my emotional energy over it. And that was not a statement that came from you, to be clear.

jmo

 

[girlhasnoname]

Here’s one reason I’m mad. They placed motive for the murders on the Odinist’s perceived hatred towards the mother of one the victims - due to alleged interracial dating.

Entirely unfounded and unsubstantiated.
Disgusting.

jmo

Yes, just one example of the many disgusting and unsubstantiated word crap that flowed from those 136 pages.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Thanks, August for bringing real-life US lawyering into perspective.
Normal legal practice by professional defense teams here in the US are being characterized/presumed as being "unethical".
Not only is that inaccurate, it's a total waste of time (and emotional energy).

Appreciate your effort to cut through these false assumptions and hysteria for this thread.

I have read others and have posted myself many times that Professional, Ethical Defense Attorneys are paramount to the US Judicial system and there are many I respect. Please don't paint all posters with such an offensive, broad stroke please.

JMO

 

[Camva]

I don't know what you mean by "power posting to [you]". You indirectly responded to something I posted, and are then surprised I'm defending my stance, especially when you're conflating documents, people, and concepts involved?

I don't necessarily infer any malicious intent, but it is extremely frustrating that you are effectively jumping in the middle of a discussion, don't seem to understand the context of the discussion (which is not hard, because it's all complex and many people are talking about many different things), and then post irrelevant or incorrect information based on your initial understanding of things. When it's pointed out, instead of admitting you jumped the gun, you seem to double down on whatever your claim is.

If you don't want to be responded to on a public forum about public comments, especially comments that seem to misstate my own beliefs, I'm not sure what to tell you. You are free to put me on ignore if you don't want to see my posts.

And if it seems like I'm trying to be rude or condescending or inappropriate in any way, my apologies. It's not meant in that way.

Perfectly clear to me

 

[photographer4]

I don't think any password stealing was necessary. The person who created/"owned" the Discord group just decided to release all the private conversations within it, from what I understand. I don't get the feeling any hacking happened here. Maybe the two ladies he use to be "with" had the password to that Discord so they all could be admins, and he changed the password to lock them out so he could preserve all the messages in it for the purpose of taking them to the MS for publication to the masses, tattle tale style. Just my opinion and interpretation of what happened here.

JMO MOO

Well that is not what CW stated in a news article I read yesterday! Font color is red to indicate its a quote from:

Leaked group chat reveals defense team strategies in Delphi murders case

The cohosts of "The Murder Sheet Podcast" told I-Team 8 they were given thousands of messages from the group chat.

www.wishtv.com

and not from another WS member which the (auto) formatting that I couldn't change implies.

"Wieneke shared a statement with I-Team 8.

“Recently, out of revenge a person who knew the password of one of my friends accessed her X account and copied all of her private conversations. He gave those conversations to Murder Sheet, who read some of them aloud on recent episodes. The conversations were blended together, and the messages were read out of order and out of context. Their purpose? To make it seem like we were “hired” by Allen’s defense team to sway public opinion. We were not.”

 

[Jade]

Thanks, August for bringing real-life US lawyering into perspective.
Normal legal practice by professional defense teams here in the US are being characterized/presumed as being "unethical".
Not only is that inaccurate, it's a total waste of time (and emotional energy).

Appreciate your effort to cut through these false assumptions and hysteria for this thread.

No, Andrew Baldwin and Bradley Rozzi are not an illustrative of real life US lawyering.

Andrew Baldwin and Bradley Rozzi are not ethical like the majority of real life defense lawyers.

B & R are not even trying to represent their client in the manner expected as paid with public funds.

It's not normal that public funds are paying for the defense to blab and make fun of the victims and their families instead of studying the prosecution’s evidence and the witness’s narratives looking for a way to reduce the impact of it all on their client.

It is an inaccuracy to think that a defense lawyer's role is to get a not guilty verdict at any cost.

Their job is to anticipate the prosecution’s moves and prepare counterarguments.

A defense lawyer contests the physical evidence from the prosecution.

Different explanations must be consistent with the facts acknowledged during the trial, including those from the prosecution.

Not elaborations of discarded avenues that aren't being presented by the prosecution in the trial.

Smearing citizens who are innocently participating in the system of justice is not acceptable by defender services in United States Courts.


all imo

 

[TTF14]

Well that is not what CW stated in a news article I read yesterday! Font color is red to indicate its a quote from:

Leaked group chat reveals defense team strategies in Delphi murders case

The cohosts of "The Murder Sheet Podcast" told I-Team 8 they were given thousands of messages from the group chat.

www.wishtv.com

and not from another WS member which the (auto) formatting that I couldn't change implies.

"Wieneke shared a statement with I-Team 8.

Ohhh, ok. Thank you for the correction. I hadn't seen that. I guess there was hacking involved. How noble.

IMO MOO

 

[photographer4]

I agree. I don't know if B and A know exactly what was happening in the group. My thing is everytime the defense or people associated the defese was called out for things they have done, the excuse is always "so who does this help? not the defense". I mean if the defense or people associated with them are doing things they shouldn't have and they are caught, of course the news and the headlines wouldn't be kind for the defense..Doesn't mean it is the prosecution behind it. There are unethical defenses.

Well you may think so, but I wonder if the ethics board would agree with you here? I can see how it could go either way for them really. Opinions being subjective and all, and just look at the varying opinions we have just here in WS on the same topic. Further, B & R do NOT control what other people say or do in public or in private. Its not on them if people are chatting about / planning about in their case, so long as - they cannot be properly proven to have been involved. Even then, if they're operating within the confines of the law and not in contravention of any court orders, then really, still not their problem, and not a problem for them.

 

[photographer4]

So we know now, without a doubt that the Odinists theory is made up fiction. But people are OK with that.
We know that the defense and their cronies have zero respect for the victims to the point that they bristle when people post their smiling faces. And people are OK with that.
We know that the defense and their cronies plot to introduce false narratives in hopes of confusing future jurors. And people are OK with that.
There’s more and folks are OK with it all.
This is all out of the defense cronies own mouths. And people are whining about how the information was made public instead of what it says about the defense and its tactics.
Where is the outrage?
Why is this OK?
Could someone please explain how this helps RA in any way?

That is my point. It doesn't help him in any way, and realistically, shouldn't harm him either. Everyone is all up in arms over the side show - which, doesn't seem to really affect the case as far as I can see. I think we should treat it for now as what it is - side show circus acts. If people are this upset about it, maybe they'll be prompted to seek actual changes to the laws, and to have them updated with an interest in keeping any future similar side shows at minimum or illegal.

 

[girlhasnoname]

So we know now, without a doubt that the Odinists theory is made up fiction. But people are OK with that.
We know that the defense and their cronies have zero respect for the victims to the point that they bristle when people post their smiling faces. And people are OK with that.
We know that the defense and their cronies plot to introduce false narratives in hopes of confusing future jurors. And people are OK with that.
There’s more and folks are OK with it all.
This is all out of the defense cronies own mouths. And people are whining about how the information was made public instead of what it says about the defense and its tactics.
Where is the outrage?
Why is this OK?
Could someone please explain how this helps RA in any way?

Who's RA again? Oh yeah, that would be R&B's Defendant Client charged with the brutal murder of two young girls facing LWOP, that they are super emotionally attached to and would have defended pro bono. Right.

Funny how we don't hear much about him lately, R&B are too focused on social media numbers and maligning JG and the State.

Guys do YOUR jobs, please? Even RA deserves better than this. Get Rick to Court and let a jury of his peers decide his guilt or innocence. This is not a game.

MOO

 

[photographer4]

And they wrote that whole thing to get sealed information about the crime scene and the girls into the public sphere... but with their sensationalist, tabloidesque slant on it. Knowing that there was absolutely no substance to what they were claiming. And knowing that under the gag order, there was no way of any other version countering theirs.

Until they released the Franks, we still had no idea of cause of death. That had been kept private for six years. I remain absolutely infuriated about that. It should have stayed that way until trial.

MOO

Realistically as you pointed out, we still can't be sure of the cause of death, can we? The Franks seems as people have often noted full of fiction - possibly some truth mixed in. If this move was in contravention of a court order, or of questionable ethics, then perhaps the legal powers that be will issue consequences accordingly. I'm still interested to see what the State has and what their theory of what happened that day is. Ultimately, not even the D can be sure what happened that day, especially if as they say, RA was not even there, and had no part in in the crime (he did, but ya know, its their job to say he didn't).

 

[m00c0w]

Ohhh, ok. Thank you for the correction. I hadn't seen that. I guess there was hacking involved. How noble.

IMO MOO

If that is true, I look forward to seeing a quick filing of charges against the alleged hacker, since that would be trivial to prove. If he inappropriately accessed an account to gain this information, that's just as bad (if not worse) than some of the things being accused of some of the defense members/associates. I would hope those impacted would not hesitate to contact the relevant authorities, as well as pursue civil litigation so that anyone involved in these alleged criminal offenses and slander/defamation are held accountable.

JMO

 

[Justice101]

Reading updates here. thanks

 

[photographer4]

If he violated the protective order, he should be held in contempt as would be the usual remedy for such things. I hope the defense is able to get their people and associates under control, for RA's sake.

JMO

I'm not a lawyer, so a question for anyone who may know: If MH violated an order, how long would it likely be before some legal authority called him on it? Who would call him on it? Would this be NM from the State? Would this be JG herself? The police?

So far, I am unaware of any action by any party with respect to any violation of a court order - and one would think there should be some sort of response from someone if such a thing had actually happened, no?

 

[girlhasnoname]

Well that is not what CW stated in a news article I read yesterday! Font color is red to indicate its a quote from:

Leaked group chat reveals defense team strategies in Delphi murders case

The cohosts of "The Murder Sheet Podcast" told I-Team 8 they were given thousands of messages from the group chat.

www.wishtv.com

and not from another WS member which the (auto) formatting that I couldn't change implies.

"Wieneke shared a statement with I-Team 8.

Hah, CW is running a little low on credibility in this matter right now IMO.

The MS stated up front that the Owner who had all of the rights of the Account gave them the material after he decided to close it down when he felt it was getting dangerously out of hand.

There was no hacking even though that sounds much more conspiracy-ish and underhanded.

I'm attaching the Part One of Three episodes where it plainly states this within the first 5-10 minutes:

The Delphi Murders: The Secret Messages of the Delphi Defense’s Brain Trust: Part One: "Zone of Pain"

EBM: To attach the specific episode

JMO

 

[photographer4]

The question you asked was why are people mad about the FM. I provided one of my own reasons. I have no expectations about consequences. I do expect not to be lectured on here about wasting my emotional energy over it. And that was not a statement that came from you, to be clear.

jmo

I'm grateful that you've pointed out I did not make any such statement.

 

[photographer4]

No, Andrew Baldwin and Bradley Rozzi are not an illustrative of real life US lawyering.

Andrew Baldwin and Bradley Rozzi are not ethical like the majority of real life defense lawyers.

B & R are not even trying to represent their client in the manner expected as paid with public funds.

It's not normal that public funds are paying for the defense to blab and make fun of the victims and their families instead of studying the prosecution’s evidence and the witness’s narratives looking for a way to reduce the impact of it all on their client.

It is an inaccuracy to think that a defense lawyer's role is to get a not guilty verdict at any cost.

Their job is to anticipate the prosecution’s moves and prepare counterarguments.

A defense lawyer contests the physical evidence from the prosecution.

Different explanations must be consistent with the facts acknowledged during the trial, including those from the prosecution.

Not elaborations of discarded avenues that aren't being presented by the prosecution in the trial.

Smearing citizens who are innocently participating in the system of justice is not acceptable by defender services in United States Courts.


all imo

I don't believe we have evidence that B & R did the blabbing as of yet? Seems so far all we have is he said / she said? Possibly I've missed updates...? Their job is to make sure RA's rights are not trampled. I believe they've been trying to do this - but I also believe JG isn't really listening (based on lack of hearings / written decisions in many motions she denied).