Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #188

[sunshineray]

This is what I’m wondering ! Where is the cell phone data!?

Even if the phone was turned off at a certain time or remained at home, unused for 9 hours straight, this info still adds to a story of some sort.

MOO

I'm confused by your question about where his cell phone data is?

 

[Charlot123]

So my question for the masses as I don’t understand the logic behind it.

Why did the Defense go with Odinism when we know they don’t even believe it according to the latest podcasts. Why wouldn’t they go with a RL or somebody like KAK?

I still believe that would go over a lot better with a jury than a cult. Mooo

Several reasons, IMHO

First, initial assessment of the crime scene defined specific traits which were later deemed to be “the signatures”

Second, someone interpreted them as “the runes”. God only knows now what they were. Former GP for the Carroll county called the evidence “non-secular”. (What better way to say, “pagan weirdness”?) So I assume, something in the initial CS appeared “odinist enough” to experts.

Third, fate had it so that the local Norse chieftain had a loose connection to a victim. Now, it becomes easy to draw a seemingly logical defense case having less holes than accusing RL, who once wiggled out of the case, or an infantile predator. In certain newer cases, bigger stories were spun of far less material. While in Carroll county, for six years, LE themselves were hinting at some peculiar elements of the crime. God only knows if the signatures were there to start with, but their “non-secularism” being constantly emphasized, it is hard to backpedal now.

JMO, the murders were not pagan sacrifices. However, the signatures could have been created by someone deviously savvy to think of it. (This is why I am not sure of RA’s culpability.) It would seem that lack of work and boredom turn certain locals into chronic attention-seekers who behave and post accordingly. Their sheer visibility makes accusations stick.

Sadly, the root-cause of this chaos lies in poor investigative work and lack of communication between agencies. Hard to blame LE for initial mishaps, it was a big crime for a small village. But I feel sorry for the time lost in following interviews and PCs that had no base in reality.

 

[MiniMoo]

The group of girls were leaving, he was arriving (time stamped by a photo image from a witness). RA's words put him on the trail watching his stock ticker, then on the first platform of the bridge (time stamped by Harvest Store video) Witness BB saw RA on the first platform right before leaving and immediately seeing Abby and Libby approaching the bridge.This has all been discussed over and over. Can't wait to hear the actual testimony from the witnesses themselves. MO

Time stamped photo image - what is it of exactly?

And...is it public.

Like is it a photo to prove when the girls were there or more than that.

 

[Charlot123]

I would guess, considering the D has filed 4 FMs, that there just might be some very good evidence against RA from the search of his property and vehicle.

I would also think the multitude of confessions, not under LE interrogation but given freely in audio, writing and probably video (mental health doctor), are also not going to work in RA's favor.

In light of the discussions, between some defense lawyers and others, revealed by MS recently, the defense was not even near ready for that May trial. Funny that, since they told the SCOIN in January they were ready to go to trial right away. I just hope JG sticks to her guns, when the D files something right before the scheduled pretrial hearing, and doesn't grant another continuance. We can only hope. AJMO

https://murdersheetpodcast.com/

Given how many holes this investigation had, what conflicting and confusing information the public was fed, the sheer size of the reward sum, they’d better have airtight evidence, including the DNA. As to the fact that multitude confessions prove anything, I disagree with it from all my heart. This strategy is not fit for any democracy. To add, there is a case discussed here, that of Samantha Woll, whose ex-bf confessed of fatally stabbing her, but as it seems now, it was a totally different man. We don’t know what makes innocent people make self-incriminating utterances, but judging by Woll’s case, extreme anxiety and mental illness are to be blamed.

 

[Boxer]

Given how many holes this investigation had, what conflicting and confusing information the public was fed, the sheer size of the reward sum, they’d better have airtight evidence, including the DNA. As to the fact that multitude confessions prove anything, I disagree with it from all my heart. This strategy is not fit for any democracy. To add, there is a case discussed here, that of Samantha Woll, whose ex-bf confessed of fatally stabbing her, but as it seems now, it was a totally different man. We don’t know what makes innocent people make self-incriminating utterances, but judging by Will’s case, extreme anxiety and mental illness are to be blamed.

MOO RA is BG, BG killed the girls,
RA kilked the girls.

 

[sunshineray]

Time stamped photo image - what is it of exactly?

And...is it public.

Like is it a photo to prove when the girls were there or more than that.

In that group of girls RA said he passed on the trail, one of the girls took a photo of a bench just east of the Freedom Bridge (immediately before they started walking on their way out of the trail, towards Freedom Bridge) right before they passed RA walking into the trail. That photo is time stamped 1:26pm. They saw him, RA admitted seeing them.

Starts at the end of page 2 onto page 3 of the PCA.

Unsealed Probable Cause Affidavit - Richard Allen, Delphi | PDF | Arrest Warrant | Probable Cause

Unsealed Probable Cause Affidavit - Richard Allen, Delphi

www.scribd.com

 

[sunshineray]

Several reasons, IMHO

First, initial assessment of the crime scene defined specific traits which were later deemed to be “the signatures”

Second, someone interpreted them as “the runes”. God only knows now what they were. Former GP for the Carroll county called the evidence “non-secular”. (What better way to say, “pagan weirdness”?) So I assume, something in the initial CS appeared “odinist enough” to experts.

Third, fate had it so that the local Norse chieftain had a loose connection to a victim. Now, it becomes easy to draw a seemingly logical defense case having less holes than accusing RL, who once wiggled out of the case, or an infantile predator. In certain newer cases, bigger stories were spun of far less material. While in Carroll county, for six years, LE themselves were hinting at some peculiar elements of the crime. God only knows if the signatures were there to start with, but their “non-secularism” being constantly emphasized, it is hard to backpedal now.

JMO, the murders were not pagan sacrifices. However, the signatures could have been created by someone deviously savvy to think of it. (This is why I am not sure of RA’s culpability.) It would seem that lack of work and chronic boredom turns certain locals into chronic attention-seekers who behave and post accordingly. Their sheer visibility makes accusations stick.

Sadly, the root-cause of this chaos lies in poor investigative work and lack of communication between agencies. Hard to blame LE for initial mishaps, it was a big crime for a small village. But I feel sorry for the time lost in following interviews and PCs that had no base in reality.

Now BH is a local Norse chieftain? Do you have a link to this or was this something speculated by the defense in one of the FMs?

 

[Charlot123]

LE may have had hairs, fibers, a DNA profile (human or animal), a fingerprint (full or partial) and just no one to compare it to -- kind of surprised there seems to ne no mention of genetic genealogy which is the new way to CODIS! So.... since they didn't, maybe they didn't recover human DNA at all -- there's no database for animal DNA -- so it's entirely possible IMO that LE had a good handle on the profile of the murderer, just no one to compare anything to. Not a seasoned criminal, or at least not a previously convicted one.

Waiting on that one tip, a name, a lead strong enough that they could finally pair the evidence to a man. And maybe to his home, his apparel, his pets, his weapons, his ammo, his vehicle, his carpet. And a statistical match to his DNA.

They may have had their man, just couldn't stick an arrest -- until they could.

JMO

Did the clerical error lead to misfiling the DNA?

 

[sunshineray]

Given how many holes this investigation had, what conflicting and confusing information the public was fed, the sheer size of the reward sum, they’d better have airtight evidence, including the DNA. As to the fact that multitude confessions prove anything, I disagree with it from all my heart. This strategy is not fit for any democracy. To add, there is a case discussed here, that of Samantha Woll, whose ex-bf confessed of fatally stabbing her, but as it seems now, it was a totally different man. We don’t know what makes innocent people make self-incriminating utterances, but judging by Woll’s case, extreme anxiety and mental illness are to be blamed.

DNA is not a necessity in my opinion. I also don't think there are many holes because RA himself provided his whereabouts that day, that time, what he was wearing and placed himself on the first bridge platform, corroborated by witness BB, moments before Abby and Libby arrived at the bridge. MO

 

[Charlot123]

Now BH is a local Norse chieftain? Do you have a link to this or was this something speculated by the defense in one of the FMs?

I was trying to hint at BH while avoiding mentioning him; I don’t think odinism is involved here. His position in the “Sons of Odin”, however, would be equal to a “Norse Gothi”, or “goði”, and I initially used the word. Then I though that if I leave it like this, my post will probably be deleted. So I changed to the “chieftain” which is not far from reality. Ancient world was pagan and tribal. The chief = the oldest male of the tribe; he’d often perform religious rituals as well. They were less formalized and more tribe-specific.

Speaking about BH. He appears histrionic, visible and loud. The killer could have been tempted to blame the murders on local paganism that’s so demonstrative. Hence, the runes and all that Norse jazz. In this context, I have two doubts about RA: one, the DNA that DC claimed they had and that had never been entered into affidavit. I assume it didn’t match that of RA. Two, I simply don’t consider RA having enough foresight to stage the scene in a Nordic way. So, either it was someone much smarter, or, the whole setup was misinterpreted. (I don’t think so, because DC was obviously scared by it all and even mentioned the Shack, to counterbalance the “idols”, it would seem. Personality-wise, the perpetrator should be smart, independent, with perverse sense of humor and to himself, not holding either paganism or official church in high esteem - not RA, IMO.)

Over these six years, RA was never considered a suspect by the public. Unsurprising, of course, but he was seen by several witnesses, and he was a local pharmacist. The female witness is not a child. Doesn’t she go to the pharmacy?

Mostly, I think if they misfiled the tip under another name, how can we trust that all other tips weren’t equally neglected/mishandled?

 

[Salah11]

DNA is not a necessity in my opinion. I also don't think there are many holes because RA himself provided his whereabouts that day, that time, what he was wearing and placed himself on the first bridge platform, corroborated by witness BB, moments before Abby and Libby arrived at the bridge. MO

Exactly!

He is hung by his own sword. Let’s see where his phone places him that afternoon as he claims he was using it to check stock.

Imo

 

[Charlot123]

Can anyone lead me to where Tricia posted an opening stating a family member asked her to reopen the Abby and Libby forum? Tried to find it again, it's not in the first thread so I'm thinking one of the multiple threads? A family member asked to have Libby and Abby's forum open again so they could keep the girls name out there.

Reporting this post myself.

I don’t know where it would be but I can imagine the time. October 2018.

Maybe here?

Thread 'IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #85'
Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #85

BTW, I wasn’t very interested in the case at that time, but made a beeline there in late 2018 when there were talk in genealogy community about the DNA from the case. Tricia also mentioned there was DNA. DC said, “we have DNA.” So as everyone else, I’ll be asking myself, whose DNA it was? I bet not RA’s. If they still haven’t found a match to that touch DNA, I think LE is missing a lot by not telling us, btw.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I don’t know where it would be but I can imagine the time. October 2018.

Maybe here?

Thread 'IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #85'
Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #85

BTW, I wasn’t very interested in the case at that time, but made a beeline there in late 2018 when there were talk in genealogy community about the DNA from the case. Tricia also mentioned there was DNA. DC said, “we have DNA.” So as everyone else, I’ll be asking myself, whose DNA it was? I bet not RA’s. If they still haven’t found a match to that touch DNA, I think LE is missing a lot by not telling us, btw.

Maybe it's a mixture of DNA or DNA that doesn't have enough markers to definitely rule RA in or out?

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Didn't say they had to be robots, but they are still limited to relying on facts, evidence and reliable witnesses.

I hope among them are some unbiased, open minded, logical and fair individuals as well as intelligent - not too easily swayed by others thoughts or opinions yet receptive.

I have found jurors tend to take their responsibilities very seriously.

There will be a chance for both the D & P for voir dire, so hopefully that will knock out any of the types you mentioned above.

JMO

 

[MiniMoo]

In that group of girls RA said he passed on the trail, one of the girls took a photo of a bench just east of the Freedom Bridge (immediately before they started walking on their way out of the trail, towards Freedom Bridge) right before they passed RA walking into the trail. That photo is time stamped 1:26pm. They saw him, RA admitted seeing them.

Starts at the end of page 2 onto page 3 of the PCA.

Unsealed Probable Cause Affidavit - Richard Allen, Delphi | PDF | Arrest Warrant | Probable Cause

Unsealed Probable Cause Affidavit - Richard Allen, Delphi

www.scribd.com

That was an interesting read. Thanks!

 

[sunshineray]

I was trying to hint at BH while avoiding mentioning him; I don’t think odinism is involved here. His position in the “Sons of Odin”, however, would be equal to a “Norse Gothi”, or “goði”, and I initially used the word. Then I though that if I leave it like this, my post will probably be deleted. So I changed to the “chieftain” which is not far from reality. Ancient world was pagan and tribal. The chief = the oldest male of the tribe; he’d often perform religious rituals as well. They were less formalized and more tribe-specific.

Speaking about BH. He appears histrionic, visible and loud. The killer could have been tempted to blame the murders on local paganism that’s so demonstrative. Hence, the runes and all that Norse jazz. In this context, I have two doubts about RA: one, the DNA that DC claimed they had and that had never been entered into affidavit. I assume it didn’t match that of RA. Two, I simply don’t consider RA having enough foresight to stage the scene in a Nordic way. So, either it was someone much smarter, or, the whole setup was misinterpreted. (I don’t think so, because DC was obviously scared by it all and even mentioned the Shack, to counterbalance the “idols”, it would seem. Personality-wise, the perpetrator should be smart, independent, with perverse sense of humor and to himself, not holding either paganism or official church in high esteem - not RA, IMO.)

Over these six years, RA was never considered a suspect by the public. Unsurprising, of course, but he was seen by several witnesses, and he was a local pharmacist. The female witness is not a child. Doesn’t she go to the pharmacy?

Mostly, I think if they misfiled the tip under another name, how can we trust that all other tips weren’t equally neglected/mishandled?

I think it may have been something more simple, like walking the woods around the trails and up creek, above the bridge, and possibly coming upon branch "runes" etc...then just using that to confuse investigators. Idk, just a thought.

 

[girlhasnoname]

#Justice4Abby&Libby


Picture by WRTV

 

[Charlot123]

Maybe it's a mixture of DNA or DNA that doesn't have enough markers to definitely rule RA in or out?

JMO

If it is a mixture of two male DNAs, they can divide by Ys and mitogroups. With two full DNAs a lot can be done. With any mixed samples, for that matter. Sometimes they can rule out/in. I suspect the situation is different. All genetic tests were either never started, or stopped rather early. I wonder if:
A) they simply haven’t maintained a good chain of custody
B) they can’t find a match at all - this would be a peculiar situation, and “we have DNA, but no match anywhere” should be told to the community.
C) they found relatives, and … stopped for some reason.

 

[MiniMoo]

I think it may have been something more simple, like walking the woods around the trails and up creek, above the bridge, and possibly coming upon branch "runes" etc...then just using that to confuse investigators. Idk, just a thought.

Definitely a possibility