Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #189

[Tricia]

Welcome back to the Delphi Murders discussion thread.

On the afternoon of Feb. 13th, 2017, best friends Abigail Williams and Liberty German were dropped off at a bridge in the town of Delphi. On Feb 14th their bodies were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the bridge.

Richard Allen has been arrested and charged with the murders of Abby and Libby

ISP page dedicated to the investigation (includes audio of suspect)

FOR MORE CLICK HERE FOR THE CARROL COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE FACEBOOK PAGE.

Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at (844) 459-5786.

Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at(800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff's Department at (765) 564-2413.

Information can also be emailed to Abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

PICTURES OF ABBY AND LIBBY
Link to post with all threads 1 - 98 (Courtesy of margarita25)
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Link to Media Maps & Timelines *No Discussion*
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Rules Etiquette & Information

Case map by skibaboo updated with grayhuze crime flow video

Grayhuze youtube channel
Murder sheet YouTube

Verified Insiders: None in this case at this time. Verified Professional, Member michael.gartley, is a Verified Expert in Imaging Science.

RULES OF THIS DISCUSSION
DO NOT post photos of random individuals (including persons featured in MSM articles about other area crimes) to compare to the images of unidentified suspect on the bridge.

PLEASE DO NOT POST PICTURES OF SEX OFFENDERS!

Do not sleuth family, PERIOD. This includes previous public records which have nothing to do with this case. They are victims here. Plain and simple.

If you feel you have a tip, by all means, phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.

NOTE - per Tricia and Sillybilly’s 5.28.2021 post here, JBC as a poi is now open for discussion in the Delphi thread.

Added 12/12/21
For general discussion on KAK’s current case please use his thread.
IN, Peru - Kegan Anthony Kline, 27, arrested Aug 29, 2020, 30 Counts associated with CSAM

 

[Tricia]

A consolidation of ADMIN & MOD notes (edited November 24, 2022):

- Members are allowed to discuss Richard Allen's voice as heard on the Gray Hughes podcast. Members may NOT link directly to RA's wife’s social media accounts.

- Speculation about RA’s possible involvement in other cases belongs in the OTHER CASES thread.

- Speculation that is not based on known fact is not allowed.

- Please use initials only for anyone other than victims or perps.

- If you have questions about rules or moderation, please do not ask them on the thread. Just jump off any post to use the Report feature to ask and a Mod or Admin will respond as soon as possible.

- Rumors are not allowed. If you can't link information to Websleuths approved sources, do NOT post it with "I read it somewhere" or "I'll find the link later ...".

- Sleuthing or discussing RSOs just because they are on the registry is not allowed. A thread specific exception may be made by Tricia or an Admin depending on geographical location in relation a crime.

- Photo alterations or side-by-side comparisons of unrelated pictures are not allowed.

 

[Tricia]

Mod Note:
For general JBC II discussions please use his thread. In Abby & Libby’s thread, JBC II should only be discussed in the context of a possible connection to Abby & Libby’s case.
Thanks Everyone!

JBC II Thread:
IN - James Chadwell II, 42, arrested after girl 9, found in his home, Lafayette, 19 Apr 2021 #3

Added 12/12/21
For general discussion on KAK’s current case please use his thread.
IN, Peru - Kegan Anthony Kline, 27, arrested Aug 29, 2020, 30 Counts associated with CSAM

 

[Tricia]

ADMIN NOTE:

Sorry folks, but statement analysis, body language analysis, amateur handwriting analysis is not allowed unless sourced to a credentialed, forensic specialist involved in the case under discussion.

This discussion is dedicated to Abby and Libby. Posts that do not relate directly to their case are off topic and such posts get removed. If you wish to discuss personal matters, please do so with your WS friends through PM or in the basement.

Also, the presumption of innocence is part and parcel of the judicial process. It does not apply to the general public who are entitled to express their opinion. Members are not here to be lectured or chastised by others for expressing their personal opinions. If you have an issue, use the Report feature and let Mods or Admins determine what is or is not okay to post.

Thanks.

Sillybilly
WS Administrator

Click here for The Rules

 

[Knitty]

Please continue here.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Justice for Libby and Abby

Delphi: Unseen photos of Libby German & Abby Williams

Four months after their deaths, the families of Liberty German and Abigail Williams hope that these newly released photos, along with some of the older ones that have been out for a while, will help convince someone to come forward with the information needed to help catch the girls' killer. <br…

www.wrtv.com

 

[Tealgrove]

Justice for Libby and Abby

Delphi: Unseen photos of Libby German & Abby Williams

Four months after their deaths, the families of Liberty German and Abigail Williams hope that these newly released photos, along with some of the older ones that have been out for a while, will help convince someone to come forward with the information needed to help catch the girls' killer. <br…

www.wrtv.com

Looking at those pictures make me want to cry.

So much to look forward to. So much to live for.

Two vibrant beautiful girls whose lives were snuffed out by evil.

There are no words to really express my feelings.

Justice is coming.

MOO

 

[katydid23]

I am curious to hear what the DT will try and focus on in the upcoming hearing. The court will be ruling upon which things will be allowed and which will be suppressed. I can't wait to see how that all shakes out.

Best case scenario, they make some headway and we can keep moving forward.

Worse case scenario, the DT asks for some kind of higher court decision in response to something they disagree with...

 

[mrjitty]

I am still struggling with the D's latest Franks response.

I get they may want to run this clash of experts about phone pings at trial

But i just don't get how it is relevant to Franks. It's clear the prosecution absolutely believe these are not actual pings from Libbys phone. So why would they have put this alternate theory in the PCA? They are not lying or covering anything up.

It would not be practical if any possible defence theory had to be included in a search warrant PCA?

It feels like the same old public signalling, dressed up as a filing with no chance of success. But now written in a more level headed way.

MOO

 

[sunshineray]

I am still struggling with the D's latest Franks response.

I get they may want to run this clash of experts about phone pings at trial

But i just don't get how it is relevant to Franks. It's clear the prosecution absolutely believe these are not actual pings from Libbys phone. So why would they have put this alternate theory in the PCA? They are not lying or covering anything up.

It would not be practical if any possible defence theory had to be included in a search warrant PCA?

It feels like the same old public signalling, dressed up as a filing with no chance of success. But now written in a more level headed way.

MOO

The PCA wouldn't need to include the pings, nor any electronic data because RA put himself there at the time and place of the abduction and murders. What was included was concise and enough probable cause to convince a judge to sign a warrant. MO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Precious victims..

Two years after Delphi's Abby Williams and Libby German were murdered, their families set up photos and candles for a Community prayer remembrance at Delphi United Methodist Church 1796 US-421, on Wednesday, Feb. 13, 2019.
Photo Provided By The Helmuth Family

 

[girlhasnoname]

Hearing time is getting close, I hope beyond hope it goes well, and after the Judge rules on the Motions, the Defense can stop with their deflection tactics and get their case and RA ready to go to trial.

It's beyond time, Abby & Libby deserve justice as do their families and the community of Delphi.

MOO

 

[m00c0w]

From the previous thread, TTF14 wrote this:

I don't think the point is to get what was found in the search warrant thrown out. The goal is to get the whole case dismissed because the search warrant was obtained illegally, is how I understand it. So of course they are going to keep trying.....their client is in prison and wants out. It's not about an item, it's about a whole life.

IMO MOO

Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #188

It would be nice to actually know what factual evidence the state has against Richard Allen. In my opinion, at this time the only hard evidence they have against him is the unspent cartridge found at the scene of the crime that toolmark analysis says could only have come from his gun. How...

www.websleuths.com

The thing is that the only purpose of a Franks hearing is specifically to get a search warrant thrown out. That’s it. It’s essentially a backup mechanism if a judge refuses to hold a suppression hearing and a two-pronged test is used. The bar for obtaining this hearing is pretty high. If the test is passed, a hearing is held. If the hearing shows the affidavit was improperly written, the warrant is suppressed.

It’s not a motion for dismissal. Suppressing the warrant also doesn’t mean the case gets dismissed. If what some here claim is true and there is no real evidence, then the search warrant getting thrown out will have a negligible impact on the case anyway. Hence the idea is there must have been something pretty detrimental to the defense found at the house for them to have spent almost a year now filing repetitive franks motions trying to get the warrant thrown out.

Franks v. Delaware, 438 U.S. 154 (1978)

Franks v. Delaware

supreme.justia.com

 

[Andieinsyd]

From the previous thread, TTF14 wrote this:

Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #188

It would be nice to actually know what factual evidence the state has against Richard Allen. In my opinion, at this time the only hard evidence they have against him is the unspent cartridge found at the scene of the crime that toolmark analysis says could only have come from his gun. How...

www.websleuths.com

The thing is that the only purpose of a Franks hearing is specifically to get a search warrant thrown out. That’s it. It’s essentially a backup mechanism if a judge refuses to hold a suppression hearing and a two-pronged test is used. The bar for obtaining this hearing is pretty high. If the test is passed, a hearing is held. If the hearing shows the affidavit was improperly written, the warrant is suppressed.

It’s not a motion for dismissal. Suppressing the warrant also doesn’t mean the case gets dismissed. If what some here claim is true and there is no real evidence, then the search warrant getting thrown out will have a negligible impact on the case anyway. Hence the idea is there must have been something pretty detrimental to the defense found at the house for them to have spent almost a year now filing repetitive franks motions trying to get the warrant thrown out.

Franks v. Delaware, 438 U.S. 154 (1978)

Franks v. Delaware

supreme.justia.com

Honest question - if a D team find strong exculpatory evidence, let’s say an unbreakable alibi, as they conduct their own investigation, what would the process be to raise this? Bring to police? DPP? Court? Would this move quickly?

 

[steeltowngirl]

I am still struggling with the D's latest Franks response.

I get they may want to run this clash of experts about phone pings at trial

But i just don't get how it is relevant to Franks. It's clear the prosecution absolutely believe these are not actual pings from Libbys phone. So why would they have put this alternate theory in the PCA? They are not lying or covering anything up.

It would not be practical if any possible defence theory had to be included in a search warrant PCA?

It feels like the same old public signalling, dressed up as a filing with no chance of success. But now written in a more level headed way.

MOO

I don’t find the latest Frank’s response with ping references having much, if any, relevance to the search warrant PCA.

RA is charged with murder on 2/13/17. He is accused of being on the bridge and ordering the girls down the hill to their deaths by murder.

Doesn’t matter if Libby’s phone was still pinging in the wee hours of 2/14. Libby and Abby were marched to their deaths after 2:07 pm and likely deceased by 3:30. RA placed himself there. Witnesses saw him. That’s plenty for probable cause. Testing then showed that the unspent bullet had been cycled through his gun.

Murder 1 and 2.
jmo

2023 Indiana Code
Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure
Article 42. Offenses Against the Person
Chapter 1. Homicide​

Sec. 1. A person who:

(1) knowingly or intentionally kills another human being;

(2) kills another human being while committing or attempting to commit arson, burglary, child molesting, consumer product tampering, criminal deviate conduct (under IC 35-42-4-2 before its repeal), kidnapping, rape, robbery, human trafficking, promotion of human labor trafficking, promotion of human sexual trafficking, promotion of child sexual trafficking, promotion of sexual trafficking of a younger child, child sexual trafficking, or carjacking (before its repeal);

2023 Indiana Code :: Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure :: Article 42. Offenses Against the Person :: Chapter 1. Homicide :: 35-42-1-1. Murder

Justia Free Databases of US Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

 

[steeltowngirl]

Honest question - if a D team find strong exculpatory evidence, let’s say an unbreakable alibi, as they conduct their own investigation, what would the process be to raise this? Bring to police? DPP? Court? Would this move quickly?

Good question. Found this - but when is the omnibus date? Did it happen already? IDK.

2012 Indiana Code
TITLE 35. CRIMINAL LAW AND PROCEDURE
ARTICLE 36. PRETRIAL NOTICES, MOTIONS, AND PROCEDURES
CHAPTER 4. NOTICE OF ALIBI DEFENSE​

IC 35-36-4
Chapter 4. Notice of Alibi Defense
IC 35-36-4-1
Time of filing; requisite information
Sec. 1. Whenever a defendant in a criminal case intends to offer in his defense evidence of alibi, the defendant shall, no later than:
(1) twenty (20) days prior to the omnibus date if the defendant is charged with a felony; or
(2) ten (10) days prior to the omnibus date if the defendant is charged only with one (1) or more misdemeanors;
file with the court and serve upon the prosecuting attorney a written statement of his intention to offer such a defense. The notice must include specific information concerning the exact place where the defendant claims to have been on the date stated in the indictment or information.

2023 Indiana Code :: Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure :: Article 36. Pretrial Notices, Motions, and Procedures :: Chapter 4. Notice of Alibi Defense

Justia Free Databases of US Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

 

[AugustWest]

Good question. Found this - but when is the omnibus date? Did it happen already? IDK.

2012 Indiana Code​

TITLE 35. CRIMINAL LAW AND PROCEDURE​

ARTICLE 36. PRETRIAL NOTICES, MOTIONS, AND PROCEDURES​

CHAPTER 4. NOTICE OF ALIBI DEFENSE​

IC 35-36-4
Chapter 4. Notice of Alibi Defense
IC 35-36-4-1
Time of filing; requisite information
Sec. 1. Whenever a defendant in a criminal case intends to offer in his defense evidence of alibi, the defendant shall, no later than:
(1) twenty (20) days prior to the omnibus date if the defendant is charged with a felony; or
(2) ten (10) days prior to the omnibus date if the defendant is charged only with one (1) or more misdemeanors;
file with the court and serve upon the prosecuting attorney a written statement of his intention to offer such a defense. The notice must include specific information concerning the exact place where the defendant claims to have been on the date stated in the indictment or information.

2023 Indiana Code :: Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure :: Article 36. Pretrial Notices, Motions, and Procedures :: Chapter 4. Notice of Alibi Defense

Justia Free Databases of US Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

Section 35-36-8-1 - Omnibus date; setting; purpose; notice; time limits, Ind. Code § 35-36-8-1 | Casetext Search + Citator

Read Section 35-36-8-1 - Omnibus date; setting; purpose; notice; time limits, Ind. Code § 35-36-8-1, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal database

casetext.com

 

[steeltowngirl]

Section 35-36-8-1 - Omnibus date; setting; purpose; notice; time limits, Ind. Code § 35-36-8-1 | Casetext Search + Citator

Read Section 35-36-8-1 - Omnibus date; setting; purpose; notice; time limits, Ind. Code § 35-36-8-1, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal database

casetext.com

Thanks - when was (or is) the omnibus date for RA?

 

[AugustWest]

Sorry @steeltowngirl don't have time this morning to discuss, but here is date from CCS:

11/22/2022

Order Issued Defendant appears in person and with counsel. State by Prosecuting Attorney. Hearing held on State's Verified Request to Prohibit Public Access to a Court Record. Matter taken under advisement. Defendant's Petition to Let to Bail ordered set for hearing in Carroll Circuit Court on February 17, 2023 at 10:00 am. Court to enter transport order. Omnibus date rescheduled to February 17, 2023 at 10:00 am by agreement of counsel Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Order Signed:

 

[sunshineray]

Good question. Found this - but when is the omnibus date? Did it happen already? IDK.

2012 Indiana Code​

TITLE 35. CRIMINAL LAW AND PROCEDURE​

ARTICLE 36. PRETRIAL NOTICES, MOTIONS, AND PROCEDURES​

CHAPTER 4. NOTICE OF ALIBI DEFENSE​

IC 35-36-4
Chapter 4. Notice of Alibi Defense
IC 35-36-4-1
Time of filing; requisite information
Sec. 1. Whenever a defendant in a criminal case intends to offer in his defense evidence of alibi, the defendant shall, no later than:
(1) twenty (20) days prior to the omnibus date if the defendant is charged with a felony; or
(2) ten (10) days prior to the omnibus date if the defendant is charged only with one (1) or more misdemeanors;
file with the court and serve upon the prosecuting attorney a written statement of his intention to offer such a defense. The notice must include specific information concerning the exact place where the defendant claims to have been on the date stated in the indictment or information.

2023 Indiana Code :: Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure :: Article 36. Pretrial Notices, Motions, and Procedures :: Chapter 4. Notice of Alibi Defense

Justia Free Databases of US Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

Isn't the omnibus usually held shortly after the arraignment? They never held it?