Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #189

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Right. But there will be no way to know if their statements have changed.

IMO MOO
They will be under oath.

I like to presume that people will not commit perjury (although some indeed do - they are the very, very small minority IMO). IMO, maybe that's just me and the way I think and I like to think that I think 'reasonably".

Simply put: IMO, there's no conspiracy to frame up RA for this crime. None at all. If so, they wouldn't have waited years to do so. That's not reasonable.
 
Again, these witnesses 3 out of the 4 young girls on the Freedom Trails, BB and SC, all were interviewed by LE when BG was still on the loose. I am sure they were all scared to death until RA was arrested. A murderer was still free.

That is one major reason why the PCA was ordered protected under seal. I am guessing, but I think they all would have been talked to very soon after they found Abby & Libby on the 14th. Their memories would have been seared into their brains IMO. They are quite detailed, and I don't think they are going to have trouble recalling what they saw on the witness stand.

JMO
 
?

There are written, signed statements.

These will be entered into evidence. And the witnesses will be questioned on them by prosecution and defence.

Unless their statements are part of the evidence the was "lost." That's what I mean.

IMO MOO
 
There are some who believe that all of this was "lost".
As far as I know that hasn’t even been claimed by the defence. The claim was only about video recordings, not the written statements.

The angle of the defence was that these lost tape/s could have included key points in their SODDI defence. In which case… the prosecution would hardly be calling them in the first place.
 
It doesn't make them bad at all - true.

In court, if any of those witnesses are put on the stand, it is likely they will have their own written statements in front of them (or if requested) so that they can refer to them if they can't recall anything. There to refresh their memories only.
It doesn’t make them a bad witness at all, but the issue of their recollections being adopted from what the others said about what they saw is actually quite high and can really affect the reliability of what they saw as individuals and as a group - especially if they talk among themselves before giving a statement to police.



The second link has a chart about memory drop off. So much memory is lost in such a short time! That chart made me wonder again how long it was before the “muddy / bloody” witness spoke with police?

Witness statements are fraught with reliability issues and can lead to wrongful convictions per much of the research available online. I wonder / hope the D will provide the jurors a mini crash course on these issues before they hear from the eye witnesses!!
 
I would expect the witnesses will be asked if this is the man they encountered on the trail. If yes, then they saw BG, who ordered the girls down the hill to be murdered. The prosecution then needs to prove BARD to the jury that RA=BG.

Do that successfully, and there will be a conviction.

View attachment 520628
Well, it’s not quite as simple as this and I hope the D will point out any issues they may find with how the witnesses concluded that RA specifically was the man they saw. Eg: did Le show the kids a photo line up with many photos at once on a grid and ask them to point to who they saw? If so, the police may have influenced the witnesses to pick someone On the grid, even if the person they saw wasn’t in the photos. There may have been many issues with their selecting someone from a lineup. You can read more about them here: Eyewitness Misidentification - Innocence Project.

I am afraid witness statements and lineups aren’t as reliable as many people think.

There was once even a case where dna nabbed the wrong suspect!!
 
Well, it’s not quite as simple as this and I hope the D will point out any issues they may find with how the witnesses concluded that RA specifically was the man they saw. Eg: did Le show the kids a photo line up with many photos at once on a grid and ask them to point to who they saw? If so, the police may have influenced the witnesses to pick someone On the grid, even if the person they saw wasn’t in the photos. There may have been many issues with their selecting someone from a lineup. You can read more about them here: Eyewitness Misidentification - Innocence Project.

I am afraid witness statements and lineups aren’t as reliable as many people think.

There was once even a case where dna nabbed the wrong suspect!!
Who would have been in the photos in a proposed lineup? There wasn’t a human suspect to compare to. Only a photo and the witnesses recollection.
 
It doesn’t make them a bad witness at all, but the issue of their recollections being adopted from what the others said about what they saw is actually quite high and can really affect the reliability of what they saw as individuals and as a group - especially if they talk among themselves before giving a statement to police.



The second link has a chart about memory drop off. So much memory is lost in such a short time! That chart made me wonder again how long it was before the “muddy / bloody” witness spoke with police?

Witness statements are fraught with reliability issues and can lead to wrongful convictions per much of the research available online. I wonder / hope the D will provide the jurors a mini crash course on these issues before they hear from the eye witnesses!!

That is why written statements are vital because if they (witnesses) go off track or say something different it will be challenged or pointed out within the context of those statements.

Memories do fade and conversations can definitely distort them, however, well written statements should contain what is necessary so that there is no confusion or discrepancies over what was said so many years before.
 
It may not be simple, but there would have been little to go on if it weren’t for this hero.

IMG_2740.jpeg

 
A joint conspiracy of LE losing interviews PLUS witnesses falsely testifying to frame up RA is well beyond the realm of a reasonable possibility. MOO
Agree. The sheer amount of work for multiple law enforcement agencies to get on the same page, for many layers of law enforcement personnel to willingly destroy or “lose” evidence, for witnesses to change testimony, for forensics experts to give improper assessments, for the judge handling the case (who was independently appointed by SCOIN) to be somehow specifically corrupt towards this case, all so they can hang a random CVS manager out to dry is… even more far-fetched than Odinists having sacrificed the girls, I’d say.

JMO
 
I would expect the witnesses will be asked if this is the man they encountered on the trail. If yes, then they saw BG, who ordered the girls down the hill to be murdered. The prosecution then needs to prove BARD to the jury that RA=BG.

Do that successfully, and there will be a conviction.

View attachment 520628

The pressure in a courtroom and when on the stand can be quite highly stressful, also, 7 years after a brief encounter mightn't quite go that well for pointing him out if we are considering facial recognition. His weight has changed in between that time and now and he may have averted his face when walking passed them. If BG is indeed RA.

Different things could factor in that we don't know about.

A creepy looking man could describe lots of different men.

I wonder.
 

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