Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #189

[StarryStarryNight]

I'm more interested in the actual information, not who he allegedly showed it to. It's still not "out there" so it's still confidential it would seem. No harm, no foul?

IMO MOO

It’s one of many examples of the mindset of the defense and their cronies.
How people can ignore reprehensible behavior, well, I just don’t get it.
So many of the made up things the auxiliary attorneys discussed, untrue things they plotted to get out to poison the jury pool, wound up being brought here and were defended.
Integrity does matter. People who plot to deceive, telling others who plot to deceive, who tell others who want to believe.
In what universe is that OK.
No harm, no foul? This is a murder trial. There are families grieving two children. And the defense team is fabricating theories and people are OK with that.
There is much harm and much foul.


Still my opinion

 

[photographer4]

That’s right, the jury rarely votes to convict based on a single piece of evidence. They consider everything they’ve heard - the totality of evidence - and includes not only people who claimed to have seen someone who might look like him, but also what he said during his own interviews, what he may have said to other people, what was collected during the search warrant along with results of forensic examinations. MOO

I have often wondered, for a juror in any given case, if they were ever on the fence, what’s the thing that tipped them to one side or the other. I think it would be incredibly interesting to learn more about this!

 

[photographer4]

I'd guess their end goal is to get the defense team thrown off the case (and, in turn, have the trial delayed). But that's just a guess because I also can't understand the purpose in releasing the existence of private information out into the masses, thus giving internet sleuths more things/people to start digging into. Private information was discussed among a few people who are on the side of the defense. MS found out about it, so decided they had to make it public. It's a head scratcher, I agree.

IMO MOO

I mean these content creators, like MS or Grey Hughes for instance, they get paid some amount for each episode they put out online, no? Either via subscriptions by people who want to hear whatever it is they put out or perhaps by sponsors, or via advertising etc… I don’t know what the income is for MS on their episodes (or for Grey either for that matter) but it sort of seems to me that one of their end goals is to create some drama for people so that they flock to watch / listen / consume (?) their content, which in turn serves to increase their revenue. I don’t know if they get paid per click, or for how long people engage with their programs (would be interested to know actually). Or what the income potential on true crime content might be — but I somehow don’t think their motives are to help the victims, or to get actual justice in the cases on which they report. That may be part of it for some creators, but I just don’t see it as a motivator with most of them given on what they report on (often rumours, speculation, recreations of things they weren’t there to see, interviews with people who may or may not have been involved / there when it happened, or with those who maybe knew an accused, an offender, a victim etc etc).

 

[photographer4]

It’s one of many examples of the mindset of the defense and their cronies.
How people can ignore reprehensible behavior, well, I just don’t get it.
So many of the made up things the auxiliary attorneys discussed, untrue things they plotted to get out to poison the jury pool, wound up being brought here and were defended.
Integrity does matter. People who plot to deceive, telling others who plot to deceive, who tell others who want to believe.
In what universe is that OK.
No harm, no foul? This is a murder trial. There are families grieving two children. And the defense team is fabricating theories and people are OK with that.
There is much harm and much foul.


Still my opinion

Respectfully though, none of the investigators were there at the crime either. They also don’t know with certainty what happened. They too have only a theory of events at best. Their theories at least seem to be based on some sort of investigation and science where possible to back that up. They may still get it wrong. Content creators - I don’t know why anyone takes them at face value really? Totally cool if people want to consume the content. Not cool if their antics (content creators) end up hurting people along the way (such as families of the victims). Not cool if their content it interrupts the wheels of justice…. Not cool if they had other means to voice their concerns that were perhaps more appropriate (eg: alert the authorities? Or file complaints with the Bar? - NOt sure who MS might otherwise complain to, or why they seem to prefer to go public with their theories vs going some other route….).

 

[ClearAhead]

I guess not many have listened to the MS bombshells yet

In short, the defence investigator, MH, is alleged to have shared the ping evidence with the You Tubers who used it to manufacture a conspiracy out of whole cloth. This was not public info. The defence latter amplified this conspiracy with their Franks filing about the ping evidence.

This MS reporting lays bare precisely the japery the defence is engaged in here. They know full well the ping evidence is not exculpatory. Rather they are amplifying a conspiracy they themselves already engineered.

Its bonkers.

There are other alarming allegations but that is the gist of it.

So yet again, it is now clear what MW was doing. These are blatant breaches of the protective order IMO. At the very least, the Judge needs to haul MH in to explain himself.

MOO

Definitely, how is it that the D is associating themselves with these loose-lipped ‘helpers’? First it was MW, now their investigator MH. It’s leaning towards a deliberate way to violate the gag order. MOO

 

[susane7]

Yes, it it could well be that they did see RA - it seems likely that they did as he seems to have also noticed the girls. But that still doesn’t make him a proven killer. It still only shows that he was where he said he was (so far). Them seeing one another doesn’t automatically make RA a killer. Did RA also note that he saw the lady leaving the area who saw him on the platform? I cannot recall.

But if they say that the man they saw is the man of the video/pics that makes him BG, a kidnapper and probably killer (IMO, BG acted alone and he is the killer). I think we don't know if he saw the lady when he was on the platform and probably we never will. From one hand, sometimes I think he saw her and started to stalk her but then he saw the girls, noticed the girls would go to a more isolated place (bridge) and started to follow them. On another hand, sometimes I think he didn't see her, he simply got of the bridge and hid himself hoping that he could have look at the bridge waiting for someone to pass and therefore use that as a trap. I think it was a opportunistic crime. If he really saw the lady, it was stupid to admit that he was on the platform but he also described his clothes at that time in 2022, so he made some mistakes. I think the fact that LE seemed totally lost and the fact that he managed to get away for so many years boosted his confidence.

 

[m00c0w]

Private information was discussed among a few people who are on the side of the defense.

RSBM

Sealed information was allegedly disseminated to random internet strangers by a member of the defense team. That’s pretty egregious…

JMO

 

[MiniMoo]

And did you notice the “fake passes”? Where some folks pretend to pass the ball, but there was nothing in their hands to begin with? I found it super interesting! It really shows something I’m learning about recently - that we pay attention to things that seem pertinent, sometimes so much so that we don’t really notice the peripheral things that might be going on! No link, so MOOOO.

I was focused on white clothing and the passes and although I did notice that costumed person sliding into the middle as well as how the others moved towards one another when passing - my eyes really were on those balls and the colour white as much as possible.

In fact, when it looked like one male in white passed the ball to one male in black it actually distracted me for a moment because my focus was on white passing to white for some reason.

It's true - we don't always pay attention to peripheral things.

 

[TTF14]

RSBM

Sealed information was allegedly disseminated to random internet strangers by a member of the defense team. That’s pretty egregious…

JMO

And none of us knew about it until MS decided to tell the world....days before the hearings.....what will they release on Monday, I wonder.

And why do they seemingly want this trial delayed again?

IMO MOO

 

[TTF14]

I was focused on white clothing and the passes and although I did notice that costumed person sliding into the middle as well as how the others moved towards one another when passing - my eyes really were on those balls and the colour white as much as possible.

In fact, when it looked like one male in white passed the ball to one male in black it actually distracted me for a moment because my focus was on white passing to white for some reason.

It's true - we don't always pay attention to peripheral things.

You seem to have done better than the rest of us though!

 

[mrjitty]

I mean these content creators, like MS or Grey Hughes for instance, they get paid some amount for each episode they put out online, no? Either via subscriptions by people who want to hear whatever it is they put out or perhaps by sponsors, or via advertising etc… I don’t know what the income is for MS on their episodes (or for Grey either for that matter) but it sort of seems to me that one of their end goals is to create some drama for people so that they flock to watch / listen / consume (?) their content, which in turn serves to increase their revenue. I don’t know if they get paid per click, or for how long people engage with their programs (would be interested to know actually). Or what the income potential on true crime content might be — but I somehow don’t think their motives are to help the victims, or to get actual justice in the cases on which they report. That may be part of it for some creators, but I just don’t see it as a motivator with most of them given on what they report on (often rumours, speculation, recreations of things they weren’t there to see, interviews with people who may or may not have been involved / there when it happened, or with those who maybe knew an accused, an offender, a victim etc etc).

This seems like a pretty big stretch to decide it's all click bait when you haven't even listened to the allegations.

These are serious allegations of misconduct and unethical behaviour.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

RSBM

Sealed information was allegedly disseminated to random internet strangers by a member of the defense team. That’s pretty egregious…

JMO

It's jaw dropping.

This is much worse than the first round of revelations.

MOO

 

[photographer4]

RSBM

Sealed information was allegedly disseminated to random internet strangers by a member of the defense team. That’s pretty egregious…

JMO

Allegedly. If the podcasters were so concerned about a breech of court order, why did they put it out to the public vs simply alerting the powers that be?

My guess: they can’t prove it maybe? Or doing so maybe doesn’t drum up enough drama / profit?

 

[photographer4]

This seems like a pretty big stretch to decide it's all click bait when you haven't even listened to the allegations.

These are serious allegations of misconduct and unethical behaviour.

MOO

I’m saying that about content creators in general to be fair. If they had a genuine complaint, and a legal leg to stand on, isn’t there some sort of governing body they could have raised their issues with? EG: If they’d sent a letter directly to JG would that have been something she could have reviewed and intervened in? I am actually asking as I have no idea what recourse if any MS or other content creators may have as concerned citizens?

 

[Ravenmoon]

Allegedly. If the podcasters were so concerned about a breech of court order, why did they put it out to the public vs simply alerting the powers that be?

My guess: they can’t prove it maybe? Or doing so maybe doesn’t drum up enough drama / profit?

Do you know for certain that none was turned over to the court or the Prosecutor?

 

[TTF14]

It's jaw dropping.

This is much worse than the first round of revelations.

MOO

Rozzi and Baldwin weren't even on the case when this allegedly happened.

 

[susane7]

I guess not many have listened to the MS bombshells yet

In short, the defence investigator, MH, is alleged to have shared the ping evidence with the You Tubers who used it to manufacture a conspiracy out of whole cloth. This was not public info. The defence latter amplified this conspiracy with their Franks filing about the ping evidence.

This MS reporting lays bare precisely the japery the defence is engaged in here. They know full well the ping evidence is not exculpatory. Rather they are amplifying a conspiracy they themselves already engineered.

Its bonkers.

There are other alarming allegations but that is the gist of it.

So yet again, it is now clear what MW was doing. These are blatant breaches of the protective order IMO. At the very least, the Judge needs to haul MH in to explain himself.

MOO

I heard the episode but I'm so used to the unethical things from this defense and their associates and all the excuses that people makes for them, that sometimes it is tiresome to talk about that. The worst for me is when he talked about a person who was investigated early on and he incited for the girl dig on him. What? Isn't he a investigator? That person was cleared apparently.

 

[TTF14]

I heard the episode but I'm so used to the unethical things from this defense and their associates and all the excuses that people makes from them, that sometimes it is tiresome to talk about that. The worst for me is when he talked about a person who was investigated early on and he incited for the 2 girls dig on him. What? isn't he a investigator? Besiced, that person was cleared apparently.

I didn't listen to the epi$ode, but were these conversations played? Or were they just described by the podca$ter$?

 

[MollyDDD]

I am not a lawyer, but if it was true, verified, (like a new video of someone else committing the crime or new, irrefutable evidence a defendant was elsewhere), I would think defense attorneys would file an immediate motion for the charges to be dropped, probably a hearing at which the State would drop the charges, and then a process for expediting the exonerated individual from jail, followed by the mother of all lawsuits.

In this case, because the Defdnse has been so visible with its motions, we are seeing a mad scramble IMO -- their ever-changing strategies are showing.

So far, Odinism, certain individuals, not doable by one person, wasn't RA because he was gone by 1:30, not RA because pings (shoving the potential TOD to a point fir which RA has a legitimate alibi, scrubbing 2-4 for which he does not).

In laypeople terms, that's a lot of spaghetti, no wall.

Even this last bit about pings is easily explained by the evidence, as indicated in the State's response. No useful data from the pings. The Defense is right about this: AT&T only had a historical location for the phone (which, by itself, might include quite a radius).... so, even if that phone (which was not receiving or sending data) went to Disneyland, AT&T would only report the historical location, back in the general area of the CS. Where they are wrong is that there is no evidence that Libby herself left the the park and returned. For that ping data to be exculpatory or even relative, the Defense would need to produce corroborating evidence. They haven't and IMO they can't. Because it doesn't exist.

It's the State IMO that has the corroborating evidence to explain the cellphone anomaly.

They have her phone. In addition to the video, they likely have A CAST report showing a flurry of movement of Libby's phone before it goes untouched and ultimately dark. In the Murdaugh trial, I think they counted how many times the cellphone flipped, having been tossed out the winfow of a moving car. The orientation changes from Libby's phone alone might tell a stark tale.

I distrust their methods but the defense team is doing what Defense attorneys do -- challenge the evidence, the investigation, the investigators, the science -- and attack the arrest warrants, the search warrants in the hopes of getting evidence and/or charges thrown out.

IMO this Defense team can't get RA off the bridge so they're going after the timeline.

This attempt will fail. The warrant was solid and the Defense hasn't even met the threshold for a hearing let alone an overturn on the warrant.

JMnoviceO

Brilliant as usual.

 

[ClearAhead]

And none of us knew about it until MS decided to tell the world....days before the hearings.....what will they release on Monday, I wonder.

And why do they seemingly want this trial delayed again?

IMO MOO

If members of the defense team didn’t involve themselves in unscrupulous shenanigans, then MS would have nothing to tell the world about.