Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #189

[grannygates]

I don't think they've talked about it. It doesn't mean there isn't a connection. I've seen this before when following cases that involve a victim's death being recorded and shared on the internet. I'm not sure why, but LE usually says very little about that aspect of the murder. Perhaps to protect other investigations?

As for no information about staging of the victims and crime scene, those details often aren't revealed until the trial. This case is a rare exception because the D team leaked the information to the public as a ruse to place the blame on some imaginary group. JMO

Robert Ives said on the DTH podcast in 2020 that there were at least three signatures at the crime scene. He also said this :

“There were a variety of things at the scene of the crime where I guess I would ask you to talk to the State Police about that. They have to decide what’s going to be released was not going to be released. It was just not your normal ‘a person was killed here’ crime scene. That’s probably all I can say about it.”

IMOA I also recall a comment containing the words “non-secular” but I’m not able to find the source, if anyone also remember this too?

Delphi Murders 3 Signatures: Robert Ives Interview Transcript from 'Down the Hill' Podcast - CrimeLights

Prosecuter Robert Ives shares details about The Delphi Murders crime scene signatures, suspects, & search warrents in this interview transcript from 'Down The Hill' podcast.

crimelights.com

ALL MOO

 

[TTF14]

Robert Ives said on the DTH podcast in 2020 that there were at least three signatures at the crime scene. He also said this :

“There were a variety of things at the scene of the crime where I guess I would ask you to talk to the State Police about that. They have to decide what’s going to be released was not going to be released. It was just not your normal ‘a person was killed here’ crime scene. That’s probably all I can say about it.”

IMOA I also recall a comment containing the words “non-secular” but I’m not able to find the source, if anyone also remember this too?

Delphi Murders 3 Signatures: Robert Ives Interview Transcript from 'Down the Hill' Podcast - CrimeLights

Prosecuter Robert Ives shares details about The Delphi Murders crime scene signatures, suspects, & search warrents in this interview transcript from 'Down The Hill' podcast.

crimelights.com

ALL MOO

Lots of people remember the "non-secular" part, but it's one of those things that have gone "poof" like other statements various people have publicly made.

IMO MOO

 

[grannygates]

I don't think they crossed the creek. Probably not even the bridge to the end.

IMO MOO

I agree with this. If the creek was chest deep and this lone person was also the “muddy/bloody man”, would he not also be completely drenched up to their chest, jeans soaking wet and clinging to him, while walking down the road? MOO

 

[MiniMoo]

Gray Hughes has a video where he walks from the first side of the bridge down to near the crime scene on a game trail, so there is a much easier way to walk to or near the crime scene without having to cross the high bridge or walk through the creek.

I'm not too keen on Gray Hughes or any of them when I come to think about it. (YouTube Crime Talkers).

How long ago did he video record it because I would like to see the bridge and the crime scene place - even if not him exactly.

Does he walk across the bridge - if so, how long did it take him?

Also, would it be easy enough at gunpoint to make two people walk back across it being an old and more than likely unstable bridge.

Am I wrong in thinking it wasn't stable.

 

[steeltowngirl]

The issue for a lot of double child abduction/murders when comparing with Delphi is that in some of these known cases we know where the abduction occurred but we don't know what happened between the abduction and the separate site where the bodies were recovered IF they ever were, so it's hard to put the timeline together or know if the scene was staged. But, the double abduction/murder of Laura Hobbs and Krystal Tobias is similar to Delphi, to me:

1. Two young victims (8 and 9 years old)
2. Playing outside unattended in wooded/public park area
3. Did not come home for dinner and alert is raised, found the next morning at 6am
4. These victims were found just off a bike path, face up, fully clothed, but dead from a total of 31 stab wounds.
5. Initial reports (persisting for 3 years) stated there was no sign of sexual assault...later, it was found that sexual assault actually had occurred to at least one victim.
6. Had to be a fairly quick timeline just based on location and when people started looking for them, yet there were a number of odd, elaborate offender behaviors such as mutilation of the eyes that the perpetrator was careful to do.

Though the murderer was familiar with an older (if memory serves, it might have been a step) sibling of one of the children, they were apparently chosen as victims at random by virtue of just being in the park and unattended at that particular time. Also the murderer was only 16 when this crime was committed. Later he went on to rape and kill other people. He sometimes targeted single victims and other times double victims after this. I look at this case not to find connections to Delphi (as in, they are not the same offender obviously) but to see general patterns of offender behavior.

The Hobbs-Tobias case is very disturbing. Suspicion immediately centered on the father as the killer, and after 24 hours of interrogation, Hobbs confessed to the murders. He spent five years in jail awaiting trial while the real killer, former Marine Jorge Avila-Torrez, was attacking and killing others.

Ex-Marine pleads guilty to 2005 murders of girls, ages 8 and 9, in Illinois

Nine-year-old Krystal Tobias and 8-year-old Laura Hobbs were murdered in 2005, and the plea Tuesday brought an end to a tortuous story of loss that gained national attention, both for the innocence of the victims and the mistakes of the justice system.

abc7ny.com

 

[TTF14]

I'm not too keen on Gray Hughes or any of them when I come to think about it. (YouTube Crime Talkers).

How long ago did he video record it because I would like to see the bridge and the crime scene place - even if not him exactly.

Does he walk across the bridge - if so, how long did it take him?

Also, would it be easy enough at gunpoint to make two people walk back across it being an old and more than likely unstable bridge.

Am I wrong in thinking it wasn't stable.

No, you're not wrong. There were rotting planks and huge gaps between planks. Very unsafe.

There are a lot of videos of the area out there on YouTube. I'll see if I can find one for you.

IMO MOO

 

[nadia90]

I agree.
I also think maybe subconsciously people don’t want these two beautiful children to have been killed by just some run of the mill pipsqueak pervert.
Sadly, though, they were.

Yes, they have DNA, fingerprints and plenty of other evidence on ra. He gone moo

 

[grannygates]

I'm not too keen on Gray Hughes or any of them when I come to think about it. (YouTube Crime Talkers).

How long ago did he video record it because I would like to see the bridge and the crime scene place - even if not him exactly.

Does he walk across the bridge - if so, how long did it take him?

Also, would it be easy enough at gunpoint to make two people walk back across it being an old and more than likely unstable bridge.

Am I wrong in thinking it wasn't stable.

I’m not a fan of Gray Hughes at all, I think he is unbearably rude and condescending, so I mute the video and just watch the walk. This is his video showing the walk from the near end of the bridge to near the crime scene. (The sticks and twigs on the forest floor would be covered by the thick layer of leaves, so i disagree with the commentary of this video, I’m just showing the walk MOO)

 

[grannygates]

Yes, they have DNA, fingerprints and plenty of other evidence on ra. He gone moo

Who does? Or is this a guess? I’m wondering why the two main investigators (ligget and Holeman) would be unaware of said DNA or fingerprints ?

 

[MiniMoo]

I’m not a fan of Gray Hughes at all, I think he is unbearably rude and condescending, so I mute the video and just watch the walk. This is his video showing the walk from the near end of the bridge to near the crime scene. (The sticks and twigs on the forest floor would be covered by the thick layer of leaves, so i disagree with the commentary of this video, I’m just showing the walk MOO)

After the second rune chart I went back to listen to what he had to say as I wanted to know why they were being shown.

I really should have just kept it on mute.

He mocks, judges, is condescending and sarcastic.

However, from what he filmed that trail is easy enough to walk until you get to the ravine part of it as just before it it's a bit of a steep slope and then what looks like no real paths or trails once through it.

If the crime scene is where he pointed out I'm not sure why they weren't found sooner unless those branches and what have you covered them enough to conceal them if standing directly above them at a distance - maybe even at the same level.

I wonder if they took photos at different levels and distances.

 

[MiniMoo]

No, you're not wrong. There were rotting planks and huge gaps between planks. Very unsafe.

There are a lot of videos of the area out there on YouTube. I'll see if I can find one for you.

IMO MOO

She filmed that right back as well.

So, wide gaps and lots of rotten planks and it wasn't until she was near the end that she thought it safe to really speed up and walk it.

Thanks for that!

 

[nadia90]

Who does? Or is this a guess? I’m wondering why the two main investigators (ligget and Holeman) would be unaware of said DNA or fingerprints ?

What I am hearing all moo

 

[MiniMoo]

A. I think both girls were targeted by being there and being female.

B. I think RA was a regular at the trails as he lived close by. IMO he felt comfortable and confident on the trails and bridge. No need to connect via social media. I think the motive was sexual and sadistic. The violence and terror in this crime is up there with the worst IMO. Whoever committed this crime wasn’t worried about taking risks to achieve his fantasy and came prepared to inflict a lot of pain and horror on his victim(s).
I hope they have the right guy locked up and can prove this at trial.
MOO

A female definitely would have been a factor.

I think he was quick about it, but doing it during daylight hours and with two victims at the same time is quite brazen, also, leaving them staged or posed differently like they were is interesting as well.

This is one court case that should be live streamed.

I really hope if reporters or journalists are let in that they cover it thoroughly and don't let anything slip by.

 

[susane7]

If the crime scene is where he pointed out I'm not sure why they weren't found sooner unless those branches and what have you covered them enough to conceal them if standing directly above them at a distance - maybe even at the same level.

Because they weren't looking in that place. They saw the pic of Abby in the bridge, realized the girls had crossed the bridge and they were looking for them in the south side of the bridge (->). They were looking for alive girls and thought the girls had crossed the bridge and they were injured somehow. They had no idea the girls had crossed the creek. The place the girls are found it is a "slope", so it was difficult or impossible to see them if they are looking for them in the south side of the bridge. Especially at night.

 

[TTF14]

Because they weren't looking in that place. They saw the pic of Abby in the bridge, realized the girls had crossed the bridge and they were looking for them in the south side of the bridge (->). They were looking for alive girls and thought the girls had crossed the bridge and they were injured somehow. They had no idea the girls had crossed the creek. The place the girls are found it is a "slope", so it was difficult or impossible to see them if they are looking for them in the south side of the bridge. Especially at night.

I have read a statement from at least one searcher who publicly stated he searched in that exact area and they were.not.there. that night. And I've also read accounts about searchers being turned away from searching in that area.

IMO MOO