Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #189

[mrjitty]

IMO we will learn that the Geofence warrant didn't capture any critical info because the killer didn’t have his phone with him.

if it had this case would have been solved in the first weeks.

 

[grannygates]

IMO we will learn that the Geofence warrant didn't capture any critical info because the killer didn’t have his phone with him.

if it had this case would have been solved in the first weeks.

I think it’s important to the timeline of events that 3 (possibly random, not connected) people were within eyesight and earshot of the crime scene during the time that the state says the murders occurred. The FBI agent who created the map should be able to explain to us the likelihood of that and where these people could have been located.

I don’t think the defense thinks these phones are the killers. Their theory seems to be that the girls were not murdered at that site.

All MOO

 

[Ravenmoon]

I was trying to find the final number of confessions that ra has made to committing these murders. Can someone point me to that information? Thank you!

Prosecutor in Delphi murders case fights to keep jailhouse confessions as evidence

"According to the prosecution, he’s confessed to 16 guards, eight inmates, a warden, Indiana State Police officers, and mental health personnel."

Oh, let's not forget that there were those pesky confessions to his wife and mother.

JMO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I think it’s important to the timeline of events that 3 (possibly random, not connected) people were within eyesight and earshot of the crime scene during the time that the state says the murders occurred. The FBI agent who created the map should be able to explain to us the likelihood of that and where these people could have been located.

I don’t think the defense thinks these phones are the killers. Their theory seems to be that the girls were not murdered at that site.

All MOO

My recollection is that the 3 phones within 60-100 yards of the crime scene area were tracked between 12-5pm. So not necessarily within earshot when the assault and murders was occurring.
If I am wrong please link me to the document that specifies a tighter timeline.
I also agree that facts should be put on the correct timeline.

 

[grannygates]

Prosecutor in Delphi murders case fights to keep jailhouse confessions as evidence

"According to the prosecution, he’s confessed to 16 guards, eight inmates, a warden, Indiana State Police officers, and mental health personnel."

Oh, let's not forget that there were those pesky confessions to his wife and mother.

JMO

Those are the listed witnesses for the prison. It doesn’t clarify the actual number of statements. I’m not able to find any court filings regarding suppressing those telephone calls, if anyone is able to find them in a court filings? The upcoming one appears to be those “trustees companions”

 

[Ravenmoon]

Those are the listed witnesses for the prison. It doesn’t clarify the actual number of statements. I’m not able to find any court filings regarding suppressing those telephone calls, if anyone is able to find them in a court filings? The upcoming one appears to be those “trustees companions”

Yeah, you're right. There are probably WAY more.

JMO

 

[grannygates]

My recollection is that the 3 phones within 60-100 yards of the crime scene area were tracked between 12-5pm. So not necessarily within earshot when the assault and murders was occurring.
If I am wrong please link me to the document that specifies a tighter timeline.
I also agree that facts should be put on the correct timeline.

My thought was if I’m golfing, teeing off at 60-100 yard hole, probably a par 3, and two people are being actively murdered on the green, I would expect to hear that.

Especially considering the open, long visibility in a forest during the wintertime with no green vegetation, leaves fallen. Voices carry a lot in forests and near water.

All MOO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

My thought was if I’m golfing, teeing off at 60-100 yard hole, probably a par 3, and two people are being actively murdered on the green, I would expect to hear that.

Especially considering the open, long visibility in a forest during the wintertime with no green vegetation, leaves fallen. Voices carry a lot in forests and near water.

All MOO

Not if you were teeing off 2-3 hours before the murder or 2 hours after.
Presumably you would need to be there at the precise time of the murders or a few minutes leading up to it.
A 5 hour geofence window is too vast.IMO

 

[grannygates]

Not if you were teeing off 2-3 hours before the murder or 2 hours after.
Presumably you would need to be there at the precise time of the murders or a few minutes leading up to it.
A 5 hour geofence window is too vast.IMO

Yes that’s why hearing from the FBI geofencing expert is important. My assumption is that the map should show if/when the phones enter and exit this zone or whether these 2 phones stayed inside this zone for the entire 5 hour window and the 1 phone just walked through during that smaller time span. I don’t know any details about what this geofencing map actually shows. I’m not pretending to know how any of this occurred. I am simply stating that it could be important to the timeline.

 

[Ravenmoon]

I don't understand why someone would take 2 teenagers from the bridge to a secondary location to....do.... whatever...then bring them back to an area crawling with active searchers to kill them?

Or why you would transport 2 dead bodies from.... somewhere... back through the area they disappeared from while an active search was happening?!

And if that happened, in the middle of complete darkness, pile sticks on their bodies.


That kind of sucks the life out of any Odinist ritual theories at least... because no way, no how was some sketchy ritual happening in the wee hours of the morning.

Those poor girls were marched to Logan's property and killed there within the hour.

That's the most logical scenario IMO.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Yes that’s why hearing from the FBI geofencing expert is important. My assumption is that the map should show if/when the phones enter and exit this zone or whether these 2 phones stayed inside this zone for the entire 5 hour window and the 1 phone just walked through during that smaller time span. I don’t know any details about what this geofencing map actually shows. I’m not pretending to know how any of this occurred. I am simply stating that it could be important to the timeline.

It’s not exculpatory and shouldn’t be addressed in the Franks.
It’s just another distraction.
All my opinion.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I don't understand why someone would take 2 teenagers from the bridge to a secondary location to....do.... whatever...then bring them back to an area crawling with active searchers to kill them?

Or why you would transport 2 dead bodies from.... somewhere... back through the area they disappeared from while an active search was happening?!

And if that happened, in the middle of complete darkness, pile sticks on their bodies.


That kind of sucks the life out of any Odinist ritual theories at least... because no way, no how was some sketchy ritual happening in the wee hours of the morning.

Those poor girls were marched to Logan's property and killed there within the hour.

That's the most logical scenario IMO.

Yes you are correct. It’s madness to believe such crazy theories IMO.
It goes against criminal behaviors we have seen over and over.
Defense is trying to attack this from every angle and invent a different conspiracy as each one loses momentum. A revolving door of suspects, changing timelines and now trying to change the location all because they can’t get their client off that bridge pulling a gun on the victims.
All my opinion.

 

[mrjitty]

Not if you were teeing off 2-3 hours before the murder or 2 hours after.
Presumably you would need to be there at the precise time of the murders or a few minutes leading up to it.
A 5 hour geofence window is too vast.IMO

As I have written a couple of times, IMO a geofence warrant is only a preliminary investigative step to generate leads and perhaps not of specific use at trial.

For example, lets say there is an abduction from semi-popular dog walking trails out of town. LE request a geofence which reveals 2 numbers known to the investigation, and one number unknown.

LE now require the 'unmasking' of that unknown number and all its data 48 hours before and after the crime. This reveals that it is my number and that i drove to the area from out of town, and then left back out of town. Police call me in, but discover I was with my wife who has a professional dog walking business.

This illustrates how the geo fence itself is a useful tool, but likely not actual evidence that will be used at trial. Rather my detailed phone records and location data taken from the provider and direct off my phone, together with my testimony, help establish the overall timeline.

As we now know from the discord leaks, MH / the defence tried to use the info dishonestly to create a suspect who had already been excluded as he has an alibi.

MOO

 

[grannygates]

It’s not exculpatory and shouldn’t be addressed in the Franks.
It’s just another distraction.
All my opinion.

The 3 phones that the FBI determined were within 60-100m of the crime scene during the hours that the state says the murdered occurred?

That seems incredibly important if a person wanted to know what actually happened that day to find justice for the girls through the court process and the goal of the trial was to hear all of the evidence, not just to selectively exclude everything doesn’t point directly at RA and his blue jacket.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

It’s not exculpatory and shouldn’t be addressed in the Franks.
It’s just another distraction.
All my opinion.

+1

This is exactly what the discord leaks reveal.

It's not exculpatory.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

It will be interesting to learn what the Judge will allow on phone evidence IMO

If the defence is going to try to pretend the geofence shows the real killers - that will not be allowed IMO.

IMO the Judge will allow the defence to use digital evidence to attack the timeline and the state theory. That is 100% proper.

MOO

 

[grannygates]

I don't understand why someone would take 2 teenagers from the bridge to a secondary location to....do.... whatever...then bring them back to an area crawling with active searchers to kill them?

Or why you would transport 2 dead bodies from.... somewhere... back through the area they disappeared from while an active search was happening?!

And if that happened, in the middle of complete darkness, pile sticks on their bodies.


That kind of sucks the life out of any Odinist ritual theories at least... because no way, no how was some sketchy ritual happening in the wee hours of the morning.

Those poor girls were marched to Logan's property and killed there within the hour.

That's the most logical scenario IMO.

At this point, taking a victim to a “second location” is a well known occurrence.

The search was called off at midnight. The scanners were broadcasted publicly.

What time do odinists rituals occur?

If a murderer was going to dump a body, would they do it in broad daylight or early morning hours in the cover of darkness ?

A group of people can move a body easily. We have seen murderers of all genders and sizes move bodies completely alone.

Most the law enforcement and Robert Ives have discussed how it was so rare to have a broad daylight murder. Brazen.

The prosecution is trying to keep the FBI out of testifying at court. We saw this in another case with unconvincing prosecution evidence which resulted in a mistrial.

The cellphone being powered on, and placed under the girls makes me think the killers intended them to be found that morning. The girls were put in that spot and the crime scene was a display for a reason.

I find the states timeline and sequence of events to be equally as unlikely as you do the defense, based on what information and the lack of real evidence I have read in court filings. So I will have to wait for the trial to see what type of evidence the prosecution has to back up this timeline and sequence of events because I am unconvinced at this time based on anything I’ve read.

All MOO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

The 3 phones that the FBI determined were within 60-100m of the crime scene during the hours that the state says the murdered occurred?

That seems incredibly important if a person wanted to know what actually happened that day to find justice for the girls through the court process and the goal of the trial was to hear all of the evidence, not just to selectively exclude everything doesn’t point directly at RA and his blue jacket.

MOO

The state and the defense know. It’s not exculpatory evidence.
Perhaps it can be used at trial but since it won’t bolster either sides narrative, I doubt it will.

I don’t want to exclude any valid evidence that would prove other parties were responsible or involved.
Right now we have RA and his blue jacket
And his blue jeans
And his own changing narrative
And his bullet
And his gun
And his image
And his voice
And his confessions
And who knows what else was found during the search warrant they so desperately want thrown out
The defense has an uphill battle for sure.
All my opinion

 

[Ravenmoon]

At this point, taking a victim to a “second location” is a well known occurrence.

The search was called off at midnight. The scanners were broadcasted publicly.

What time do odinists rituals occur?

If a murderer was going to dump a body, would they do it in broad daylight or early morning hours in the cover of darkness ?

A group of people can move a body easily. We have seen murderers of all genders and sizes move bodies completely alone.

Most the law enforcement and Robert Ives have discussed how it was so rare to have a broad daylight murder. Brazen.

The prosecution is trying to keep the FBI out of testifying at court. We saw this in another case with unconvincing prosecution evidence which resulted in a mistrial.

The cellphone being powered on, and placed under the girls makes me think the killers intended them to be found that morning. The girls were put in that spot and the crime scene was a display for a reason.

I find the states timeline and sequence of events to be equally as unlikely as you do the defense, based on what information and the lack of real evidence I have read in court filings. So I will have to wait for the trial to see what type of evidence the prosecution has to back up this timeline and sequence of events because I am unconvinced at this time based on anything I’ve read.

All MOO

The official search may have been called off at some point, but searchers were there the entire night and morning.

I cannot believe that a ritualistic sacrifice occurred in total darkness with people actively searching. I am sure that a light source would have been needed. That would have had attention in a hot second.

Where were the footprints from all of the heathens?

I just don't see it as plausible.

JMO

 

[grannygates]

The state and the defense know. It’s not exculpatory evidence.
Perhaps it can be used at trial but since it won’t bolster either sides narrative, I doubt it will.

I don’t want to exclude any valid evidence that would prove other parties were responsible or involved.
Right now we have RA and his blue jacket
And his blue jeans
And his own changing narrative
And his bullet
And his gun
And his image
And his voice
And his confessions
And who knows what else was found during the search warrant they si desperately want thrown out
The defense has an uphill battle for sure.
All my lowly opinion

We have access to the search warrant return so we know what came back in the search. I can find the link if you would like.

If the entire case is Richard Allen went on a walk with a blue jacket and someone found a round in the woods with Sig Saur markings on it so they find one of their witnesses who just so happens to own this same model gun that thousands of people have in indiana. They throw this guy in solitary confinement before he gets any legal rep,and for 18 months perch a felon with a pen and paper at the door to peck at him 24 hours a day until he breaks and says a bunch of stuff while eating his own poo and drinking toilet water.

Is that really any evidence about what happened to Abby and Libby ?

What does that tell us about what actually happened that day?

Is this case about nailing a guy with a blue jacket so someone can pay for this murder or is it about actually looking at the real evidence and the actual investigation done by law enforcement, the FBI and all the experts and solving the murder to get real justice for these girls.


all MOO