Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #189

[grannygates]

“The defense brought up as an example how at least 600 files on one disc were labeled in numbers rather than a description of what the evidence is.”

That’s insane. There has to be some type of ledger somewhere ? How would anyone be able to work like that ? How could you possibly work on a case with several other people and have all your files titled by random numbers with no organization or identifiers?


(Unless these are files that the prosecution isn’t using at all so they don’t care to title them in a normal way )

https://www.wane.com/news/indiana/delphi-murders-case-attorneys-argue-where-richard-allen-should-be-held-more-motions/

 

[twall]

Another Indy report.

Prosecutors, defense spar over possible missing Delphi homicide evidence

Delphi double homicide suspect Richard Allen appeared in court again Tuesday for the first day of a three-day hearing, which will set the stage for his trial in October.

www.wlfi.com

 

[TTF14]

“The defense brought up as an example how at least 600 files on one disc were labeled in numbers rather than a description of what the evidence is.”

That’s insane. There has to be some type of ledger somewhere ? How would anyone be able to work like that ? How could you possibly work on a case with several other people and have all your files titled by random numbers with no organization or identifiers?


(Unless these are files that the prosecution isn’t using at all so they don’t care to title them in a normal way )

https://www.wane.com/news/indiana/delphi-murders-case-attorneys-argue-where-richard-allen-should-be-held-more-motions/

I've heard a defense attorney speak on this. Can't link the source, so take this as my personal experience and opinion. He says this is somewhat common practice to just make things more difficult for the other side. Maybe not on this scale, but it isn't unheard of.

IMO MOO

 

[steeltowngirl]

“The defense brought up as an example how at least 600 files on one disc were labeled in numbers rather than a description of what the evidence is.”

That’s insane. There has to be some type of ledger somewhere ? How would anyone be able to work like that ? How could you possibly work on a case with several other people and have all your files titled by random numbers with no organization or identifiers?


(Unless these are files that the prosecution isn’t using at all so they don’t care to title them in a normal way )

https://www.wane.com/news/indiana/delphi-murders-case-attorneys-argue-where-richard-allen-should-be-held-more-motions/

Was that information labeled and color-coded for the prosecution as they collected it for 6+ years during their investigation?

 

[FrostedGlass]

Finally Det. Kevin Murphy testifies in court and this is what we get:

The Court also heard testimony from retired Indiana State Police detective Kevin Murphy. The defense team says Murphy and two other investigators believed third-party suspects might have been involved in the murders.

Prosecutors and Richard Allen's attorneys clash over information sharing at Delphi murders hearing

The first of three days of hearings started with a delay, then motions to change where Richard Allen is held and how the defense gets information from prosecutors.

www.wthr.com

 

[katydid23]

I spy myriad places a camera would fit just fine, including the three spots from which a camera took these photos.

IMO MOO

One of those spots seems to show the jury box. I think that is one of her concerns.

 

[katydid23]

I'm confused by this statement. What does it mean?

"McCleland argues that State is in compliance and that any violations due to timeliness should result in a continuance as opposed to the item being excluded from being introduced."

I think he is saying that IF the FBI or certain experts have not yet released their reports, that should result in a continuance, or a postponement, and not a suppression of evidence. IMO

 

[TTF14]

One of those spots seems to show the jury box. I think that is one of her concerns.

Then a camera, especially one that couldn't swivel/rotate/zoom, should not be placed there. There are many other options, don't you agree?

 

[twall]

Finally Det. Kevin Murphy testifies in court and this is what we get:

Prosecutors and Richard Allen's attorneys clash over information sharing at Delphi murders hearing

The first of three days of hearings started with a delay, then motions to change where Richard Allen is held and how the defense gets information from prosecutors.

www.wthr.com

And this little bit...

Kevin Murphy, a retired Indiana State Police officer who worked on the Delphi case from 2017 to 2019, said that while other investigators did not consider Holder a suspect, he and two others did. He said there was an "undeniable link" between Delphi and supposed Odinists from Rushville.

Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen's attorneys accuse police of hiding evidence

Richard Allen's attorneys argue police were too quick in clearing a man with ties to one of the victims and Odinism.

www.indystar.com

 

[TTF14]

McCleland argues that State is in compliance and that any violations due to timeliness should result in a continuance as opposed to the item being excluded from being introduced.

I think he is saying that IF the FBI or certain experts have not yet released their reports, that should result in a continuance, or a postponement, and not a suppression of evidence. IMO

OK, thank you. I was thinking this was about evidence from the State being turned over to the Defense, and I wasn't understanding.....because I think the point would be, if it was intentional, that the State did not want it to be introduced. But you're saying evidence to BOTH sides? Hope you understand my questions. I don't know if I'm being clear.

 

[TTF14]

And this little bit...

Kevin Murphy, a retired Indiana State Police officer who worked on the Delphi case from 2017 to 2019, said that while other investigators did not consider Holder a suspect, he and two others did. He said there was an "undeniable link" between Delphi and supposed Odinists from Rushville.

Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen's attorneys accuse police of hiding evidence

Richard Allen's attorneys argue police were too quick in clearing a man with ties to one of the victims and Odinism.

www.indystar.com

The part about Holeman becoming irate with him in the hallway about it was quite interesting. Guy has a temper!

IMO MOO

 

[steeltowngirl]

And this little bit...

Kevin Murphy, a retired Indiana State Police officer who worked on the Delphi case from 2017 to 2019, said that while other investigators did not consider Holder a suspect, he and two others did. He said there was an "undeniable link" between Delphi and supposed Odinists from Rushville.

Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen's attorneys accuse police of hiding evidence

Richard Allen's attorneys argue police were too quick in clearing a man with ties to one of the victims and Odinism.

www.indystar.com

An undeniable link with supposed Odinists.
How can it be undeniable if they are only supposed?

 

[TTF14]

An undeniable link with supposed Odinists.
How can it be undeniable if they are only supposed?

The writer's liberty with word choice? This is why video/audio would be amazing, so we don't have to rely on "journalists" and their interpretations.

 

[katydid23]

To be fair, The prosecution included a video of a random unrelated deceased man being turned over by cops within their discovery material, so we can’t really point the finger at just the defense.

So let's say the state did NOT include the info of the dead body----later on would the DT use that against them, trying to say they hid that info from them? I think they might have tried to twist it that way...

There have been established protocols in the past for cases that include graphic material, again I would refer to the gannon stauch and Tylee/JJ cases.

I personally see no unique reason in this case for not broadcasting, which has not been solved in another.

 

[steeltowngirl]

The writer's liberty with word choice? This is why video/audio would be amazing, so we don't have to rely on "journalists" and their interpretations.

I’d love for this all to be on video. Or at least audio. I appreciate an open courtroom. I guess it is what it is though.

 

[iamshadow21]

An undeniable link with supposed Odinists.
How can it be undeniable if they are only supposed?

To paraphrase Pollyanna... If you look for Odinists, you shall surely find them.

I think some people involved in this case were looking hard for ritual and conspiracy. So they found them, but never conclusively enough for anything resembling probable cause, and they missed the CVS guy who looked exactly like BG who'd admitted to being at the abduction site at the right time on the day.

MOO

 

[grannygates]

Was that information labeled and color-coded for the prosecution as they collected it for 6+ years during their investigation?

I think they were just expecting actual words. I’m not sure how anyone would think labelling 600 documents with random numerical titles with no ledger would be acceptable in any office setting.

 

[TTF14]

So let's say the state did NOT include the info of the dead body----later on would the DT use that against them, trying to say they hid that info from them? I think they might have tried to twist it that way...

Not sure I'm following.... it was a completely unrelated dead body. How would they even know it existed to be able to use it against them? Why would they complain that the State didn't include the dead body of Mr. Winston Abernathy (I just made that name up) who died of natural causes in his bed on 123 Main Street? Seems much more egregious that they DID include it in Discovery, no? (I mean, poor Mr. Abernathy!)

IMO MOO

 

[TTF14]

I think they were just expecting actual words. I’m not sure how anyone would think labelling 600 documents with random numerical titles with no ledger would be acceptable in any office setting.

Unless you were purposefully trying to make things difficult.

IMO MOO

 

[grannygates]

An undeniable link with supposed Odinists.
How can it be undeniable if they are only supposed?

The “supposed” is connected to the label “Odinists”, not the link.

He’s saying he believes there is an undeniable link between these 3rd parties.

MOO